New PHASE ONE 645DF Medium Format CAMERA

[fotografz]

for me the issue has always been about focusing accuracy.
the autofocus on the mamiya has never made me feel secure
I have the magnifier and even that never made me feel very confident.
I was shooting with a hassy 110mm f/2 wide open and a mamiya 80mm f/1.9 and in the end had to rely on constantly checking the laptop at 100% to ensure my focus was right.

you can have the BEST lenses in the world but all that is for naught if the camera body does not give you the confidence of accurate focus.

Also, shutter lag is a horribly important issue, if you shoot people then even a fraction of a second makes a difference in the expression you capture.

I'm sure the phase one people dealt with it...I hope.

IMO, those are the two most important issues when working with MFD.

Focus accuracy should be a more important priority than the constant struggle to pack more pixels into a given space for all of the manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how well the S2 does in this regard ... being a totally integrated system, it has the potential to be very good, and could well make up for less pixels if the lenses are as good as advertised and the focus is dead on the money.

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

for me the issue has always been about focusing accuracy.
the autofocus on the mamiya has never made me feel secure
I have the magnifier and even that never made me feel very confident.
I was shooting with a hassy 110mm f/2 wide open and a mamiya 80mm f/1.9 and in the end had to rely on constantly checking the laptop at 100% to ensure my focus was right.

you can have the BEST lenses in the world but all that is for naught if the camera body does not give you the confidence of accurate focus.

Also, shutter lag is a horribly important issue, if you shoot people then even a fraction of a second makes a difference in the expression you capture.

I'm sure the phase one people dealt with it...I hope.

Well I tend to switch to manual in the studio doing portraits as well since I don't trust AF to begin with on any system. But will agree the current body can be a pain and it does hunt. Now Tim did mention in his thread about 2 settings which sound very good. As you can set the AF to be more accurate or faster. Now as stated by Yair and Tim at this point plus the spec sheet saying the AF is better and faster than what we have today which is all good news. Myself I will most likely switch to accurate because i really am not bothered by the speed today. Even when i do those runway jobs with the 300 on continuous focus i am nailing them pretty well with the movement of the models walking at me so the more accurate setting is hopefully very good. Also Yair said the shutter lag is basically a dead issue now and obviously he has handled these bodies longer than I have actually so that is great indication it is basically a non issue or much improvement in it. So far I have not heard one negative factor of the upgraded body so that is all good news. I'm actually pretty excited about this, it hit all my issues on the upgrade. The one i really hoped for was the Phase battery in the camera so one battery and charger to haul around but obviously now Leaf is part of Phase and they use a different style battery so that would not work for those Leaf users. The vertical grip I think Dave mentioned will take Phase batteries and that maybe a nice option.

One thing that really has not been mentioned for Phase and Leaf shooters and maybe a little off topic but now Leaf will be able to use C1 as there processing and tethered engine this just doubled our amount of backs we can toss on the body. For rentals and such this could proof a very very nice option or when in other cities you need to rent a different back. Leaf has a nice wide format back now that could be useful for certain gigs. Now I need to learn more of there backs and maybe some nice rental options with them. The reality is Phase really expanded their network with the purchase of leaf and maybe that is the silver lining behind the purchase that most of us did not pick up on when that buy out was made. Many people questioned the purchase and I was one of them, maybe we did not see this at first but I see am seeing it better now.

 

[ptomsu]

I don't see why you see my numerous "let's wait and see" comments as biased, while thinking that your own statements about the excellence of the new Schneider lenses over the S2 lenses are factual (you have used neither)?

I am a Leica fan, yes, but I am no fanboy. My regard for Leica is based on my experience with R and M lenses, both of which routinely exceed the quality of what is available from the competition, in my experience, and in fact, in the experience of many people here. Sure, there are occasional brilliant lenses from any company, but I have not seen a lens range from *any* company which manages to be so uniformly excellent as the Leica M lens range, and this is not just stopped down, but more difficultly, from wide open.

My expectation is that the Leica S lenses will do the same in MF, but I am always qualifying this with "let's wait and see" comments, to keep perspective. I speak in no blanket generalities here.

Ok, lets wait and see, but waiting will be very long before Leica will have a comparable lens range to H and P.

Anyway I own almost 90% of the latest M lenses and while I really love them finally, they had to go back to Solms at least once to be fine adjusted for M-digital (M8). I would not call this such a great experience. My 3 Schneider lenses never had to be fine adjusted as my Hassi V lenses (Zeiss) never had to be. And I see their quality from film and in the resulting large format prints after scanning with a Flextight X5. This quality is still better (or t least equal) to a 40MP back - of course I do not consider how much work effort you have to put into getting clean and stunning files from a scan.

But agree, lets wait and see ....

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Just read this I wonder what improvements are on the finder mask. Audible AF confirm. Hmmm more bells going off in my ear. LOL

Other workflow enhancements include new tactile buttons, a fully sealed eye-cup eliminating ambient light, improved viewfinder masks, and customizable audio feedback e.g. on focus lock. Several custom functions have been enhanced, without compromising simple navigation.

 

[carstenw]

Ok, lets wait and see, but waiting will be very long before Leica will have a comparable lens range to H and P.

True, but two of the first four lenses are also somewhat challenging designs which will show in which direction things are likely to go. I think by the end of the year we should have a good idea of where the S2 system fits in.

Anyway I own almost 90% of the latest M lenses and while I really love them finally, they had to go back to Solms at least once to be fine adjusted for M-digital (M8).

Also true, but although this does happen, it is not universal, and at least Leica can adjust them. With some manufacturers you need to buy, try and sell until you get a good copy. Only one Leica M lens in the current lineup is like that: the 35 Lux ASPH.

Anyway, it is already October, and the release of the S2 is at hand: let's wait and see. I am sure the system will be impressive. Perhaps more interesting will be how it compares to the existing MF systems.

 

[carstenw]

Well Carsten it is true that Leica offers a great selection of M and R lenses. Most of them are fantastic. However one point is, you are talking about a lens range. Well the S2 has none at launch. Sure this will happen over time, but it takes time and I don't think we will see a 35 or many more lenses before next year.

True, but it won't be long before the first four lenses are out, and then we will see how it looks.

On the other hand there is the question, how attractive the S2 will be next year, once Sony, Nikon and Canon get their 28Mp + cameras out. Certainly that is not medium format and lenses are not as good. However you would just pay 6k to 8k and I think especially Nikon has shown, that they can make outstanding lenses.)

IMO Nikon has some work to do. They have some truly great lenses (14-24, 24-70, 200/2, and perhaps the 70-200 II), and then they have a vast range of fairly mediocre lenses. I nearly bought into the Nikon system and then backed out due to this fact. Some refreshes are desperately needed, and the Nikon lenses are not known for their great boke, with the few mentioned exceptions.

Sony is on the right track, but also have some work to do. Canon's lens lineup doesn't appeal to me at all, nor do the very digital-looking results, if you are not very careful. I went to see a photo exhibition today, and after perhaps 4-5 shots, I was certain that they were shot with a Canon (which they were). There is something that falls totally apart in the Canon texture when they are printed too large (A1, roughly, or 1m on the long edge). Other cameras degrade more gracefully, IMO (A900, D3x, ...). The lens lineup also doesn't appeal to me, for the most part, although there is more variety than in the Nikon lineup. CA was also clearly in evidence in many shots.

For these reasons, I think that MF doesn't really have anything to fear from 35mm, whether it be the S2 or the Phase backs. The results just act different when printed and enlarged. There is more substance.

 

[evgeny]

Can someone compare (at least theoretically ) 645DF glass vs Contax 645 glass?

I'm mostly interested in 645DF capable lenses as Contax 645 35mm/3.5, 80mm/2, 120mm/4 and 140mm/2.8.
Is AFI/Hy6 has such competitive lens range?

Thanks
Evgeny

 

[carstenw]

The AFi/Hy6 lenses are very high quality, but you won't find a really wide lens in the range. I believe that 40mm is the widest rectilinear lens. There were plans for something wider, but so far nothing real. They tend to be expensive, but with patience, you can build a nice lens lineup for a good price.

The Contax 645 lenses are generally very good, being relatively modern Zeiss designs. The AF is slow, but accurate. The prices are very fair at this point, or even cheap. The 80mm isn't the sharpest 80 wide open, but then it is quite fast and I like its look. I own the 35/3.5, 80/2, 120/4 Macro and a Hasselblad 110/2 which I use with an adapter. The 35 and 120 are fantastic, and the 110/2 is a great portrait lens.

Someone else will fill in the Mamiya lens details.

 

[thomas]

The 80mm isn't the sharpest 80 wide open, but then it is quite fast and I like its look.

on a 9µm pixel sensor it is more than usable wide open. Even on a 6.8µm pixel sensor it resolves enough for good print quality (center - corner sharpness of course is not so good with the high res sensor). At f2.8 it's quite good.
Having said that I think the P1 80D might be better (clearer + more contrasty wide open).
The Contax 35 +120macro are outstanding... regarding these focal lengths a platform change doesn't make sense IMO

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Some news I read. Which is EXACTLY what I said initially

1/1600 flash sync on the LS lenses will only be available on p40+ and p65+ for the other backs only 1/800

Again my guess is simply because it does not need a wake up cable on these backs but could be more to it as well. Don't know don't care as long as it works.

 

[cmb_]

aaahhhhh another reason for you to get to P40+

 

[pcunite]

Paul C Buff claims his CyberSync will sync at 1/2500

http://www.alienbees.com/cybersync.html#cst

 

[KETCH ROSSI]

Definitely exiting stuff, and will surely make good on my upgrade path with the recent purchase at Capture Integration, to go with the DF body returning the AFD III as son as that becomes available.

The Lenses very exiting as well, and sure look forward to the C1 as well, I imagine since mine is a brand new C1 4 Pro part of the VA package I should have one free upgrade, correct?

Now I just ordered the "L" Bracket from Kirk http://www.kirkphoto.com/L-Bracket_for_6.45AFD.html is this similar to the Arca one? Would this fit the new DF body, since the DF is a bit larger?

But in truth if the Grip is as well designed as the body, I will surely add that as well, so I imagine that then I will have no choice but to use a different Bracket, am I correct in my assumption?

 

[thomas]

sure look forward to the C1 as well, I imagine since mine is a brand new C1 4 Pro part of the VA package I should have one free upgrade, correct?

1 upgrade, yes.
However download C1 4.8.3 PRO from phaseone.com -> downloads; it's a free update (not upgrade) to your bundled version.

 

[KETCH ROSSI]

1 upgrade, yes.
However download C1 4.8.3 PRO from phaseone.com -> downloads; it's a free update (not upgrade) to your bundled version.

Great! Thanks Thomas.