The Hasselblad H Discussion Thread

[paulmoore]

@Marc and also the others ....



But what are the alternatives (and I am still on the theoretical ground here, as I did still not buy into any digital MF system) - the only real alternative in MF is Phase - PERIOD! The S System, as nice as it seems still on marketing and on paper, is no MF equivalent and will never be, maybe enough for many purposes, but I do not let myself fool with those nice marketing messages, it is not MF and never will offer the flexibility of Hasselblad or Phase.

peter, I have to question your absolute conviction that the S2 is not a MF equivalent..you must be talking about the shape of the body or non interchangeable backs to make this statement. Surely,
if a S2 image at 20x30 is everybit as good as {you fill in the back} then I would assume you would agree that the S2 is of MF quality. Why do you think or assume Leica is trying to fool you?..
after reading your post it seems you don't really have a choice and have boxed yourself into a phase corner..which is great because they make very good equipment. But is not phase locked into the same inflexibility with c1 that you say hasselblad has with phocus?
Sorry but I always have to question those who are so sure of something that they end any statement with "PERIOD!".

 

[Paul Claesson Hasselblad]

When both the Hassy H4D and Phase DF are shipping it will be interesting to see which real world system has better AF.

I absolutely agree

However, EVERY Mamiya 645 lens from 1975 (the first one produced) to the currently produced D series lenses are compatible and newer lenses like the 75-150mm D and 28mm work even on older bodies like the AFD1 (HCD lenses cannot be used on older bodies such as the H1/H2). In addition every one of your CF, CFi, CFE lenses is compatible, as well as the FE lenses that you hunger to use with digital. As a bonus there are adapters for Pentacon 6 glass. It is very true, and should be noted, that the H can use the CF/CFi/CFE with aperture stop down while the Mamiya/Phase require manual stop down of the lens.

With the use of the Hasselblad CF adapter, photographers have the use of 27 Zeiss lenses (30mm to 500mm) and 1 Schneider 140-280mm lens on any H camera dating back to 1957. CB lenses are included in the list of CF/CFi/CFE. Not bad for backwards compatibility.

As Marc had indicated earlier in this thread "it is a fully integrated, fully auto aperture, auto stop down adapter. The H camera provides focus confirmation, and the Phocus software corrections support the legacy Zeiss lenses." The list of V lenses will expand with the next of Phocus, I think may Hasselblad V users will be very happy.

You can also store the lenses that you own in the "My Lens List" so instead of seeing all lens options, the photographer would only see the lenses he/she uses most frequently.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA

 

[dougpeterson]

You can also store the lenses that you own in the "My Lens List" so instead of seeing all lens options, the photographer would only see the lenses he/she uses most frequently.

Nice!

 

[dogstarnyc]

FWIW,

The 'H' history of Hasselblad has been and still is abysmal, especially for a 'highest of high end companies'.

If you own an H1 or H2 and use a Phase One or Leaf back then these HCD lenses don't work with your camera, they only work with HD cameras.

So right away when hasselblad went closed system, they didn't care about existing users.

Their files until very recently didn't work in industry standard RAW developing software, their own software was at this time very poor, and very very poor by Hasselblads own much hyped standards, especially when you see what Leaf and Phase One have out there. It still is under developed and a poor alternative to Adobe and Apple.

Now we see Hasselblad bring out the H4D and owners of the above mentioned lenses now feel like original H1 and H2 users did.

If a neutral person where to look in on this he or she would not blame anyone to jump ship, abandon Hasselblad and their 'questionable' forward planning and management and move to a system supplier who offers the following:

Open platform to use digital backs i.e. not closed system.

Offer RAW files that work in ALL industry standard dev. software AND offer a high level alternative.. on both both MAC and PC platforms.

Offer and upgrade path that allows you to safely keep your equipment that you have invested in and just upgrade your back and or body.

Offer the ability to still shoot film.. rare I know but when a back fails a long way from home, film is better than nothing.

In short Rollei and Mamiya have moved the ball forward for medium format shooters, all their lenses work full frame, all their bodies take a range of backs and film (maybe not the new DF anyone). And all the digital files work in Lightroom or Aperture etc...

I would allege that Mr. Poulsen should have serious question marks over his direction, it's just my opinion and I mean it in a neutral way looking, at the open facts. How many customers has he lost just by going closed system, let alone having a questionable 'forward management' policy...?

A good example of 'forward management' was Leica, how when their M8 came out they made it so that it was easy for M series lens users to go forward, and I quote:
'All Leica M lenses of 21–90 mm focal
length produced since the year 1954 can be used, even if lacking the 6-bit coding. Virtually all lenses can be retrofitted
with 6-bit coding. 6-bit functions Lens-dependent reduction of edge shadowing originating in the system. Identification
of the lens information within the image file to facilitate digital archiving. Adjustment of the flash reflector when
using motor zoom flash devices. Auto slow sync. function in aperture priority mode. Compensation of color shifts
through the use of UV/IR filters.'

So Paul, it's not a dig at Hassy, it's questions raised, in fairness because of not one but several management blunders that have lost hasselblad customers and therefore market share.

Your 'agressive response' is understandable, you love your job and the company you work for, however in reality your response shows signs of a lack of customer understanding and a lack of co operation... not uncommon amongst USA hassy reps recently.

 

[carstenw]

Marc, your post is very well written and balanced, and makes a number of good points, and importantly, you write from the perspective of an owner. I have very little say in reply, just a couple of minor points:

(...) the HCD/28 provided me with the wide angle coverage I needed for my work.

To get that same W/A coverage on those cameras using a Full Frame lens, it probably would have been a 25 or 26mm ... which MOST certainly WOULD have cost substantially more and been larger or slower (if even possible). A true 28mm FF lens on a 1.1X camera is a 31mm field-of-view, and on a 1.3X crop sensor is a 37mm field-of-view which was NOT wide enough for some of the industrial photography I do. I often barely got by with the 28mm.

This is a minor point, but the HCD28 *is* a ~24mm lens. It just doesn't have the coverage for full frame, but it only misses by 5%, according to David Grover. I cannot imagine that getting that last 5% covered would have made such a huge difference. The "new full frame (36x48)" label used by Hasselblad for one or two intermediate years was presumably a way of being able to call the HCD28 a "full frame 28mm lens" rather than a "24mm lens which doesn't cover full frame"...

RE Camera color: I honestly don't care that much. Camera color has nothing to do with what I do. Would I have bought into it if it were black? ... yes. Would I have bought into it if it were grey? ... I did. What does matter to me is that the components cosmetically match ... which they do. (...) To me, it's a "lite" issue.

I freely admit that the colour is a "lite" issue, and I have written as much. The thing is, I have never heard a single owner or non-owner come out in favour of that colour, so what exactly makes Hasselblad release camera after camera looking like that? I just don't get it. Minor, but baffling nonetheless. Your cosmetic matching comment betrays that you do care about such things, as I am sure you are aware. Like I said earlier, there will always be that little voice in the head until the day the camera is black. When you posted your Photoshopped black H, I was surprised how handsome the camera was in black.

I have opted out of the legacy CFV program. Great solution for V users and nice on-going support for the long discontinued 200 series cameras. But redundant to me, and I no longer wish to support 2 separate MFD systems. I will use the 203FE system as it was intended ... as a film camera ... or sell off the entire kit (TBD).

You are very right about this, today. But there was a time when the 203FE, by some called the best camera ever made, was a top-of-the-line camera, and their owners had invested huge amounts of money in those systems, but overnight the direction changed, and they were given no path forward. A strategy developed over time, and the H was improved to the point that it could take over, but just like with the H2+Phase situation, it was one of those situations where one day you were golden, and the next day you had no way forward. This is what I mean with how Hasselblad has made decisions on several occasions. It gives me pause.

If personal preferences tag me with the "Fan Boy" moniker, I honestly couldn't care less.

The "fan boy" moniker in a forum like this is just a pointless label. It serves only one purpose: to insult. I would be happier if I never saw anyone use it again.

 

[PeterA]

So let me summarise- and please let me know if I missed anything

Hasselblad has ugly coloured cameras - black is much better -buy Phamiya
Hasselblad doesnt have a full frame 28 wide - buy Phamiya
Hasselblad has a closed system - buy Phamiya

oh and yes - Hasselblad is a bad naughty nasty company who treats its customers badly - buy Phamiya

there are no other back makers - Sinar is dead - buy Phamiya

anything else I missed??

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[s.agar]

Do you really think Carsten is biased towards Phamiya? I hadn't noticed that.
Thanks for your informative message.

Seyhun

 

[ptomsu]

peter, I have to question your absolute conviction that the S2 is not a MF equivalent..you must be talking about the shape of the body or non interchangeable backs to make this statement. Surely,
if a S2 image at 20x30 is everybit as good as {you fill in the back} then I would assume you would agree that the S2 is of MF quality. Why do you think or assume Leica is trying to fool you?..
after reading your post it seems you don't really have a choice and have boxed yourself into a phase corner..which is great because they make very good equipment. But is not phase locked into the same inflexibility with c1 that you say hasselblad has with phocus?
Sorry but I always have to question those who are so sure of something that they end any statement with "PERIOD!".

Try to make 80"x100" prints from a S2 and you will see the difference compared to a 50 or 60MP back - I am VERY convinced - PERIOD!

This is why I do not count the S System a MF system.

 

[carstenw]

Peter, your statement is pure fiction. None of us have seen such a comparison. Why don't you wait a few extra days until the S2 is out to make such statements? It just discredits you.

 

[KeithL]

Try to make 80"x100" prints from a S2 and you will see the difference compared to a 50 or 60MP back - I am VERY convinced - PERIOD!

This is why I do not count the S System a MF system.

That has to be the strangest definition of a MF system I've ever heard!

 

[thomas]

This is why I do not count the S System a MF system.

so the P21, P30, H31, P40 and all the other crop 1.3 digital backs aren't MF as well or what? Look at the sensor size...

Try to make 80"x100" prints from a S2 and you will see the difference compared to a 50 or 60MP back - I am VERY convinced - PERIOD!

beeing convinced and having experience is a huge difference... obviously.

 

[ptomsu]

so the P21, P30, H31, P40 and all the other crop 1.3 digital backs aren't MF as well or what? Look at the sensor size...

beeing convinced and having experience is a huge difference... obviously.

What is your experience with the S2????

 

[ptomsu]

Peter, your statement is pure fiction. None of us have seen such a comparison. Why don't you wait a few extra days until the S2 is out to make such statements? It just discredits you.

Simple physics and basic mathematics, nothing else you need for that

 

[fotografz]

I think this whole thread is polarizing. It's not owners speaking, and is opinion supported by hearsay ... "I know a lot of photographers that say..." negative crap further supported by vendors selling another brand.

I wonder what the reaction would be if I started a thread about how truly terrible the history of Mamiya products have been ... IMO as a former owner as experienced first hand ... and "according to a lot of photographers I know" ... with Phase desperately trying to shore themselves up by band-aids on the only camera they could couple with for survival after Contax went belly up and Hassey and Rollei/Hy6 locked them out ?

I could go on and on and on and on about Mamiya ... but I won't ... because it's polarizing and hearsay and demonstrates how dumb this sort of thing is. I will say IMO it is one of the ugliest, most ungainly looking cameras ever designed even if it is black.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

I think this whole thread is polarizing. It's not owners speaking, and is opinion supported by hearsay ... "I know a lot of photographers that say..." negative crap further supported by vendors selling another brand.

I wonder what the reaction would be if I started a thread about how truly terrible the history of Mamiya products have been ... IMO as a former owner as experienced first hand ... and "according to a lot of photographers I know" ... with Phase desperately trying to shore themselves up by band-aids on the only camera they could couple with for survival after Contax went belly up and Hassey and Rollei/Hy6 locked them out ?

I could go on and on and on and on about Mamiya ... but I won't ... because it's polarizing and hearsay and demonstrates how dumb this sort of thing is. I will say IMO it is one of the ugliest, most ungainly looking cameras ever designed even if it is black.

-Marc

So Marc,

if you want a beuatiful camera, then I would say the S2 is your product of choice :thumbs:

 

[fotografz]

So Marc,

if you want a beuatiful camera, then I would say the S2 is your product of choice :thumbs:

The look of the gear is a "lite" issue.

But the H3 that others don't like looks okay to me. The design itself is compact and pleasing to my eye.

The S2 is a very good example of industrial design ... it is a very nice looking camera.

 

[TimothyHyde]

Once again, Marc, you bring wisdom, maturity, and REAL experience to a thread gone wild. Thanks.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think I need a third espresso. LOL

 

[ptomsu]

I think I need a third espresso. LOL

Me too

 

[PeterA]

Do you really think Carsten is biased towards Phamiya? I hadn't noticed that.
Thanks for your informative message.

Seyhun

No I dont think Carsten is biased towards Phamiya he just wishes that Hasselblad was better able to satisfy his expectations. Nothing wrong with that.

Pete