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F%$#%$! I just tried out the Leaf Aptus II 6 CRAZY!! So confused???

stephengilbert

Active member
No Leica critique goes unanswered, and in real time: it has defenders in every time zone, so when Europeans are asleep, Americans are there, when Americans are asleep ...
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
ADMIN NOTE: Let's keep it friendly guys...

Brand loyalism or fanboyism as seen from my own perspective offered FWIW: A consumer being in love with their choice of system and lauding it is one thing. A dealer that sells said product also has something to gain continually pushing their product as superior to a competitors is perhaps something else...

However, BOTH are likely going to be measured as "suspect" opinions by any educated consumer and as such are likely to incur pointed questions about actual performance and specifications with associated debate. But that debate can remain cordial... IMO brand loyalism is never going to go away and a main purpose these discussion forums can serve is to help consumers make appropriate purchasing decisions based on their needs by sifting though a collection of comments to make their ultimate decision.

As such, I feel it is equally beneficial to readers to have access to comments containing measures of both skepticism and loyalism together in the same discussion -- a cross-examination of stated facts if you prefer that terminology :)

Carry on,
 

vieri

Well-known member
Vieri,

I'm confused. If the S2 has a superior LCD to all medium format systems (many of which carry higher price tags) and is better than Canon's top-of-the-line 1Ds, how do you reach the conclusion that Leica somehow skimped on the technology? Yes, the D3x screen is slightly better, but Nikon also purchases in much higher volume. I'd say that given their relatively low volume, Leica has probably spec'd the best screen they could.
David, nothing to be confused about, nor need to be defensive - my original comment was referring to a quote of Michael from Luminous Landscapes, mentioning that "Michael states on LuLa in his S2 first impressions article: The camera's large LCD is good, but not great. Apparently it was specified a couple of years ago and was state-of-the-art then." I pointed out a factual, historical truth: the LCD of the S2 was not state of the art two years ago. Nothing more, and I am sure you agree with that: the difference between "state of the art" and "specified as best as they could given their relative low volume" is, IMHO, very clear.

With regards to the Platinum Package with Sapphire glass, this is designed primarily for rental studios. The sapphire glass screen won't get scuffed, even if rented 100 times in a year. The camera will look "newer" and hold its rental value better. And the Platinum Package includes a free shutter replacement. So, after 2 years when the rental S2 has 200,000 exposures on it, the studio can send it in and get a brand new shutter, thus significantly extending the life of the camera. For most individual owners this package isn't necessary, but for the rental houses, it should give them a better ROI over the long term.

David
Very true, I didn't think about the lease & rental crowd. However, IMHO a camera body that costs what the S2 cost could offer the sapphire glass as a standard anyway. More in general, and this applies to all brands more or less, I really think that this widespread policy of selling a product for thousands of $ and then extorting a few bucks more for something that might (if not downright should) have come with the original product is not a really great one and doesn't help to ingratiate customers and make them happy. And, worst of all, is definitely bad & poor style-wise, it makes them look really small, Scrooge-y, sell-your-mama-for-a-buck like... :ROTFL:

Some historical examples, the firsts out of my head:

- Nikon selling the D series camera for 5.000 US and wanting 100 bucks more for Nikon Capture;
- Hasselblad selling the Flextight X5 for more than 10 K euro and including ridiculous single-frame adapters, forcing you to buy the 6x35 mm or the 3x120 mm adapter for a bit more than a hundred euros each;
- Phase not including C1 Pro with a 15 K euro order for a camera & a back;
- Leica & the sapphire glass, both on the M9 & the S2;

and I am sure there are more. Now that it comes to mind, we could start a thread about the way all the major companies do business when it comes to this... :rolleyes:
 

yaya

Active member
Okay, so the S2's screen offers a higher DPI res than the iPhone. If they have the same number of pixels and the S2 LCD is slightly smaller (3" vs. 3.2") it should look sharper.

Thanks for pointing this out.

David

It'll only look sharper if the preview generated on it is good...the iPhone BTW is 3.5" not 3.2".
 

carstenw

Active member
This is off-topic, but actually the small versions of photos generated for the iPhone are not that great. I wrote an AppleScript some time ago to help me generate the thumbnails for my webpages (pre-Lightroom days), and at some point during Tiger, the image tool built into Mac OS X went significantly softer, and never seems to have recovered during Leopard or Snow Leopard. I don't know what the problem is, but since Lightroom handles this easily now I don't care so much any more.
 

carstenw

Active member
Some historical examples, the firsts out of my head:

- Nikon selling the D series camera for 5.000 US and wanting 100 bucks more for Nikon Capture;
- Hasselblad selling the Flextight X5 for more than 10 K euro and including ridiculous single-frame adapters, forcing you to buy the 6x35 mm or the 3x120 mm adapter for a bit more than a hundred euros each;
- Phase not including C1 Pro with a 15 K euro order for a camera & a back;
- Leica & the sapphire glass, both on the M9 & the S2;
I am not touching the rest of your examples, including the S2, but the sapphire screen is actually a significant fraction of the cost of an M9, so I wouldn't group that with the rest.
 

vieri

Well-known member
I am not touching the rest of your examples, including the S2, but the sapphire screen is actually a significant fraction of the cost of an M9, so I wouldn't group that with the rest.
Granted, right - Leica could use something like the D3 glass though, not Sapphire but not scratchable nevertheless: there was a video on YouTube showing some crazy dude trying to mess with it with all sort of scratching devices to no avail :D

what is CI?:D Corporate Identity...
"Michael"... "LuLa" .... :confused: ... Luminous Landscape
Yes. Like I said, eventually a light bulb went on. But Lula just sounded like something...and indeed it was.

Steve Hendrix
:ROTFL: sorry about that guys... I just quoted a quote of a quote, and I preferred to leave the quote untouched :ROTFL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Looking forward to you getting your P30+. Dave from CI is shipping overnight to me a new P40+ for me to test out on my way up to the workshop. Starting to get a little head start on the group to get to know this back a little better and for Jack and I to run it through it's paces .:D

Starting to feel a big tug on my wallet here. :ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

KETCH ROSSI

New member
Looking forward to you getting your P30+. Dave from CI is shipping overnight to me a new P40+ for me to test out on my way up to the workshop. Starting to get a little head start on the group to get to know this back a little better and for Jack and I to run it through it's paces .:D

Starting to feel a big tug on my wallet here. :ROTFL::ROTFL:
He he, that is how it starts Guy..but from reading here I guess for you has started long time ago :), well keep us informed on your guys finds vs. the P30+ and if it is a big jump worth to upgrade to, rather then keeping the P30+ till my planned upgrade to the P65+.


BTW, next time try to do a workshop in Vegas, would you? I'll take care of the girls for the shoots :D as well as the locations.
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Dave from CI is shipping overnight to me a new P40+ for me to test out on my way up to the workshop. Starting to get a little head start on the group to get to know this back a little better and for Jack and I to run it through it's paces .:D

Starting to feel a big tug on my wallet here. :ROTFL::ROTFL:
This morning I was considering starting a thread stating that we all knew you would be coming to Oregon as the owner of a P30+ but pondering (perhaps even a poll) which back you would own upon leaving Oregon!!! :ROTFL:

Remember, I correctly made a prediction about your changing gear in Carmel but I was trying to refain from being a smart a$$ this morning - all I needed was this little push! :angel:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Your on bud.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

I just smell trouble with that one.

I should point out this is really how you should buy although Ketch you were in a little hurry to get a back and you did fine by it. But normally not under a deadline is get to try these things out . When i first got into MF i had 3 backs on a workshop in Puerto Rico and I got to try them out and make a decision as to what fit me the best and so did the other attendees. In the end out of 7 people on that small workshop 4 of us bought Phase and there system. I think that says a lot about getting these things in your hands regardless of name brand and try them see what works and see what does not and even than for me choosing between the P25+ and P30+ i really racked my brain out on that decision so first I went with the P25+ and after a year i decided to switch to the P30+. Now it could be said i made a mistake in the beginning and maybe I did but I don't think I did i loved the P25+ back and it served me very very well but in the end I needed that extra stop of ISO. So than went to the P30+ which i have today and absolutely love but again along comes a P40+with some extra benefits which are very nice . This one has a faster shooting speed which is attracting me and what it really comes down to as a generalist that does many things I look for the most versatile back and someone that specializes in a area may not have to worry about speed and such.

So again what is good for me may not be as good for someone else. The good news in MF is any back you pick it is never a real mistake because they all simply produce amazing images. Some just go about it differently and obviously some brands may suite you better as a shooter than others.

I truly think there is a lesson learned here and that is try these things out if you can and get to know the systems for your benefit, end of day it is your money and your career and?or passion on the line.

Ketch not directed at you obviously we all knew you where in a hurry and in the end you made a very good decision and a lot of people around here know that system very well. Most of us are very happy with it but for other buyers with the time on there hands get a chance to try these out and make smart buy decisions. And from someone that has gone down that path that is my best advice.
 
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