New LS Lenses

[dougpeterson]

I called Capture Integration a couple weeks ago to ask about this and surprise, surprise I haven't heard back. Judging from the CI love shown on this forum I must be the only person these jokers never call back or return e-mails to although I can't for the life of me figure out why.

Brent, these lenses are not completed yet and R+D is ongoing as to whether they will be able to be made to work on the Phase One 645 AF. We don't know anything more, and frankly no one knows anything more because, as I said, the R+D is still being done.

Phase and Mamiya have a good history of offering backwards compatibility where technically feasible. If it is feasible here technologically then they will do so.

I'm surprised to hear of your disappointing interaction with us. If you're waiting for a call from one of us (I dont' know who you spoke with) about these lenses and the older body then you haven't received it probably because we don't know anything meaningful yet (see above). You say that you've had incomplete emails with us... I see two support cases (9/15/08 and 3/6/09) both of which are marked resolved. My cell phone, as well as the cells of most of our company are publicly available and we welcome your call anytime.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Dave Gallagher]

My cell phone is always on and I am always responsive to any complaints as to the reputation or professionalism of my company. If anyone on this or any other forum has any difficulties I suggest that they give me a call. I even answer on weekends and holidays. I think that many here will attest to this fact. :talk028:

Now as for the grip and the LS lenses, please don't get your hopes up. As we don't have all the information today, we can not formally release an answer and Phase One has been vague in their answers more than their normal. What we do know is that they "will be losing money" on each and every $1500 upgrade that they perform. Anyone who fits into this category should jump on the offer as the DF is in a class by itself compared to any Phase/Mamiya released up to this point. We will let everyone know about compatibility at our earliest confirmation from the homeland. I am very sorry that we can't give a more concrete response today.

Dave Gallagher (e-mail Me)
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[Christopher]

Is it a claim or fact that Phase is loosing money on a $1500 upgrade ?

So it seems they are really making a loss. One could say good for us, bad for them ;-)

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Thanks Dave and Doug for jumping in and giving updates on this situation with the LS lenses. Personally I am looking forward to these new lenses and certainly the upgraded body. Also as part owner of this site we are always happy to have all the detailers, retailers and OEM's of these companies we all use to come in and help the members and end users answer these tough questions to the best of there ability.

 

[bdeshazer]

I appreciate the updated information as well. It's surprising that dealers can take orders for these lenses now and that they're supposed to be shipping this quarter (per the press release) and yet they're still in the R&D phase.

Regarding my other issues, I'm responding to these off the forum so as not to further detract from the subject of this thread.

 

[vieri]

... It's surprising that dealers can take orders for these lenses now and that they're supposed to be shipping this quarter (per the press release) and yet they're still in the R&D phase ...

I think this might mean that they are still working on the software side seeing if they can FW upgrade the older bodies to make them work with the new leaf shutter lens; as well, assuming that they found out this to be possible, it might probably be reflecting some marketing thinking going on: once they find wether it is technically possible or not, they will have to decide if it is better marketing to give the upgrade to the 645 AF (selling more lenses, probably) or not (forcing more body upgrades or body sales, but probably selling less lenses in the end). If they can do the upgrade to the older bodies, it would make more sense to me to provide it; but then again, no matter how hard I try to see the best angle for Phase, I am probably thinking more from the user point of view than the sales side: I surely would love a FW upgrade! :ROTFL: though, I will anyway upgrade my body (I already booked for it), and as a user I would be more interested in a FW solution to allow the use of film backs on the new 645 DF...

 

[dougpeterson]

I think this might mean that they are still working on the software side seeing if they can FW upgrade the older bodies to make them work with the new leaf shutter lens; as well, assuming that they found out this to be possible.

Correct; the R+D still under way in this case is the firmware in the lens (yes, lenses have firmware) and body is under R+D.

R+D actually continues even after a lens ships. For instance the Phase One 80mm received a firmware upgrade which reduces black-out time by 20% (they tweaked the exact close/open/trigger timing) several months after it shipped. Body firmware is also continued after a body ships, for instance the Phase One 645 AF became much faster and more responsive after a firmware upgrade several months after it shipped; the original body was not bad, so if you bought it for what it was then you got a very pleasant free surprise.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[dougpeterson]

as a user I would be more interested in a FW solution to allow the use of film backs on the new 645 DF...

I too am sad to see the option of film go away. However, they tell us it was necessary to drop film compatibility to gain other advantages regarding the internal timing of the body.

A very good condition used AFD1 body with film back is about $400-$600 on KEH.com and can use all the lenses so far released (I don't know whether the Schneider lenses will work on it since they are not yet released) as well as shoot film.

Doug

 

[vieri]

I too am sad to see the option of film go away. However, they tell us it was necessary to drop film compatibility to gain other advantages regarding the internal timing of the body.

A very good condition used AFD1 body with film back is about $400-$600 on KEH.com and can use all the lenses so far released (I don't know whether the Schneider lenses will work on it since they are not yet released) as well as shoot film.

Doug

Yeah, I am very sorry too - but I guess we'll have to accept the sacrifice on the altar of progress thanks very much for the suggestion, in fact, this is exactly what I planned to do as soon as I got confirmation about the non-compatibility with film backs - get the upgrade to the new 645 DF, wait for a little and then get a used AFD, I II or III as both a backup & a film body... even though not probably as cheap as you can find them in the US, I am pretty sure I can find a cheap enough body around here as well

 

[carstenw]

I think that $1500 for the upgrade sounds very fair. I suppose it might be Phase's concession to their customers since they appear not to be able to get the LS lenses to work on the AFDIII?

 

[wolf65]

After buying a camera 8 months ago, expecting lf lenses soon to come, you don't really feel like spending another 1500$ for a new body that might have a few minor improvements.
and by the way, nobody has offered an upgrade to me yet.