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An S2 strategy: your thoughts?

Christopher

Active member
@CI ((OUCH, how can you upload such a file from a P65+ ? IT hurts to see it. Sorry but it really looks bad. I mean it looks worse than a lot of Canon shots.)) Ok just saw that there is not only the JPG David linked but a raw file. That is fine than.
@ David No wonder the S2 looked better. I mean if that was the results I am getting from my P65 I would have thrown it out of the window a long time ago ;-)
 

atanabe

Member
Often times you only see the best out of a camera, best lighting, best processing best exposure and best subjects. David was open with me and let me see the good, bad and ugly out of the camera and my take away is that the image quality and dynamic range out of the camera is fantastic!

You should formulate your own opinions after you have handled and shot with the camera. Till then it is all speculation and opinions based on what has been read. I will wait till the production cameras are out and in circulation before testing the camera again before making my decision. I have been on the fence about a move to the H3dII 39 as the prices have come way down, currently at half the cost of a S2. But the S2 will replace the DSLR for me and the CFV system.

Al
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well you can use a Hassy or Phase as a DSLR too. I do it everyday. LOL
Yes the S2 is nicer in that role but it can be done
 

Christopher

Active member
Well no guy it can't. Or let's say it depends what you do. Shooting wildlife, hiking 12 hours, shooting at night handheld. All these things are not really possible with any MFDB so far.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I do a lot of stuff it should not do but yes obviously some it can't. But I try like hell too get it to do everything. Not always a easy task.LOL
 

bradhusick

Active member
Let's not forget that all the S2 lenses are autofocus and have several aspheric elements. In hundreds of shots I saw, not one had any CA or loss of sharpness at the edges. It's hard to argue that Leica glass will be anything less than excellent. I am not a MF shooter, but I understand that lots of the lenses in MF are not "state of the art" shall we say, and the ones that are tend to be priced as such.

All this will come out in the wash once we get our hands on the cameras!
 

vieri

Well-known member
I think Schneider optics are about the same price as Leica S lenses.
Not really, generally they are way cheaper. From the Silvestri list, the most expensive Schneider lens in helicoidal mount is the APO Digitar 35mm XL that goes for about 3.000 euro MSRP. The cheapest is the APO Digitar 90 mm that goes for 1.470 euro MSRP. Everything else is in between, with 6 lenses in the 1.xxx euro range & 2 in the 2.xxx range. Hope this helps :D
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The new LS lenses for Phase i can't find the numbers but the most expensive one (110) was around 3500 or 3800. Leica is about twice the price or more. You need to price the CS lenses to compare

Here is Leica pricing
Lenses:
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH - $4,495 (Oct 09)
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Nov 09)
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 - $6,495 (Oct 09)
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS - $7,495 (Nov 09)
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $6,495 (Nov 09)
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $7,495 (Nov 09)
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH - $5,295 (Dec 09)
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Dec 09)

leica 4 lenses with CS 27k.
 

vieri

Well-known member
The new LS lenses for Phase i can't find the numbers but the most expensive one (110) was around 3500 or 3800. Leica is about twice the price or more. You need to price the CS lenses to compare

Here is Leica pricing
Lenses:
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH - $4,495 (Oct 09)
Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Nov 09)
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 - $6,495 (Oct 09)
APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5 CS - $7,495 (Nov 09)
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $6,495 (Nov 09)
APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 - $7,495 (Nov 09)
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH - $5,295 (Dec 09)
Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH CS - $5,995 (Dec 09)

leica 4 lenses with CS 27k.
Guy, the press release I got says "prices starting from 1.790 euro / 2.490 US $ (that is for the 80), and if memory serves the 110 (most expensive) is going for about 2.500 euro. Nothing even close to Leica's price... big surprise that is, of course :ROTFL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I look at those numbers and start to shake to be honest. I bought one lens like this the 35-70 2.8 Leica R lens for 6300.00. I sold it fairly quickly too and not because of the quality which is very nice but I was truly afraid to use it in a working environment. Now obviously you could save a few dollars like 2k from it and only get 2 lenses with a CS but still, this is what separates the rich from the working class. That is my biggest issue with the S2 it maybe worth it but the costs are just frightening for me at least.
 

vieri

Well-known member
I look at those numbers and start to shake to be honest. I bought one lens like this the 35-70 2.8 Leica R lens for 6300.00. I sold it fairly quickly too and not because of the quality which is very nice but I was truly afraid to use it in a working environment. Now obviously you could save a few dollars like 2k from it and only get 2 lenses with a CS but still, this is what separates the rich from the working class. That is my biggest issue with the S2 it maybe worth it but the costs are just frightening for me at least.
Very true.

Say you get the S2, 35, 70 & 180. You are out 19.500 US worth of lenses, and 20 K for the body = ~ 40K.

You can get a very nice Hassy or Phase kit with 3 lenses covering the same focals for about half of that or slightly more; add a Cambo, Alpa TC or Silvestri Bicam and a couple of Schneider or Rodenstock lenses for WA work with camera movements with superb IQ, and you still have some cash left in your pocket (like 10K, not peanuts :ROTFL: )... That surely makes one think!
 

bensonga

Well-known member
BTW, all this would be funded by sales of my Hasselblad V gear and CFV-II which I've already begun doing.-Marc
Very interesting thoughts and perspectives here, even for someone like me who will never be in the market for an S2 at it's current pricing level. I still think they would have knocked it out of the ballpark if an S2 body was priced at about $10-$12k.....I know, I know....what am I smoking? :)

In any case, I'll continue to do all I can to further Marc's upgrade and/or replacement program by buying as much of his Hasselblad V gear as I possibly can. Still working on my wife re approval for the PC-Mutar and wondering what else might be coming out of Marc's closet in the near future.

Back to the original question.....I think we've got to see the S2 in action before most folks will really know.....is it worth the high price of admission?

Gary
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I look at those numbers and start to shake to be honest. I bought one lens like this the 35-70 2.8 Leica R lens for 6300.00. I sold it fairly quickly too and not because of the quality which is very nice but I was truly afraid to use it in a working environment. Now obviously you could save a few dollars like 2k from it and only get 2 lenses with a CS but still, this is what separates the rich from the working class. That is my biggest issue with the S2 it maybe worth it but the costs are just frightening for me at least.
I guess you'd need to wear a diaper to use the Leica M 0.95 I just bought Guy ...:grin:

It's going straight to work this weekend ... :eek:

Marc
 

jonoslack

Active member
The new LS lenses for Phase i can't find the numbers but the most expensive one (110) was around 3500 or 3800. Leica is about twice the price or more. You need to price the CS lenses to compare
They'd better be good then!
But if they are . . . .
 
G

gdwhalen

Guest
Marc, if I was in your situation - already having more than adequate and more than enough equipment to see me through until retirement - I would do nothing.

I'd then use the small fortune I had saved to tour the world at leisure and make all those images I'd been meaning to make for the last 40+ years.

Keith
I totally agree. You have great equipment. Certainly great enough to take truly outstanding images. It's never the gear. It's ALWAYS the photographer.
 
G

gdwhalen

Guest
I look at those numbers and start to shake to be honest. I bought one lens like this the 35-70 2.8 Leica R lens for 6300.00. I sold it fairly quickly too and not because of the quality which is very nice but I was truly afraid to use it in a working environment. Now obviously you could save a few dollars like 2k from it and only get 2 lenses with a CS but still, this is what separates the rich from the working class. That is my biggest issue with the S2 it maybe worth it but the costs are just frightening for me at least.
I agree with this as well. What good is a piece of equipment if it is too expensive to use or you are worried about shooting it? Photography is a content business, not a gear business.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, a most interesting discussion so far.

My take is that Leica may have a tough row to hoe.

For me the comparisons to a P65+ and soon to be launched Hassey H4D/60 do not help with the credibility factor. These are very near FF 645 and 60 meg sensors ... the Phase back is in fine tune with arguably the most sophisticated RAW software on the planet. Those that actually know how to use it have the same opinion about Phocus for Hasselblad files.

Now, I do buy the notion that the S lenses could make some difference. Proof of that is clear every time someone puts a Phase One or Hassey digital back on a tech camera, and uses Rodenstock or Schneider digital APO optics.

I also buy into the idea that the S2 could defy some conventional logic ... the DMR did that, and it seems the M9 is doing something similar.

Again, replacing a MFD system isn't the positioning for the S2 I am interested in. However, that positioning as a replacement for say my Nikon D3X system may not fit everyone's working criteria. In actual shooting situations that I face, the D3X really maxes out at ISO 1,000 ... but I use ISO 400 to 800 most of the time ... but RARELY over ISO 500 for formal shots, commercial images or portraits. The M9 and fast aperture M ASPH optics are for available light work.

I do not have a focal length over 100mm in the Nikon bag. I do have a 70-200G for the Sony and have used it exactly 5 times ... only for my assistant to shoot from a church balcony. When I shot with Canon I didn't even own a Zoom for many years ... 24 to 135 primes, with the least used being the 135.

So, the thought is to make a lifetime purchase here and get out of the Nikon D4X/Canon 1DsMKIV upgrade rat race.

Which raises the specter of long term service and support. Big ? mark. Both Nikon and Canon service has been excellent when I needed it. Not so my history with Leica.

Having been shafted by Kyocera with the Contax 645, Contax N Digital and Contax N, then Leaf with the dead-end Aptus 75s I couldn't use on their AFi Hy6 camera system JUST after getting the 75s ... well, caution is a considerable aspect in mulling this all over.

Marc
 
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