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just what the male black-widow spider said just before meeting his lady for "dinner".... It looks sexy.
Definitely an interesting discussion. Clearly, you are approaching the S2 option as you should - open minded and considered.Well, a most interesting discussion so far.
In my opinion, Leica has made their row to hoe due to their pricing of the S2. If Leica could have come to market with the S2 at lower price, then the equation would change dramatically and the row would be much easier to hoe. In fact, people would be lined up at the row. :deadhorse:My take is that Leica may have a tough row to hoe.
Yep, that's for sure.Definitely an interesting discussion. Clearly, you are approaching the S2 option as you should - open minded and considered.
In my opinion, Leica has made their row to hoe due to their pricing of the S2. If Leica could have come to market with the S2 at lower price, then the equation would change dramatically and the row would be much easier to hoe. In fact, people would be lined up at the row. :deadhorse:
Mark
One issue: how in the heck can I make this decision without having a real taste of how the S2 actually works? Can it function in the conditions I shoot in? How fast is it really? What is the 400 and 800 ISO really like?
Any other maker can get one of their products into a pro's hands for evaluation ... Like Hassey did, like Leaf did ... but as far as I can see the S2 has to be purchased like a "pig in a poke", or I'd have to travel somewhere to even lay hands on one. :banghead:
Definitely waiting for another year or even two is a good strategy. This will not only show the quality of the camera and lenses, but also SW and support and future of the S System.
Wonder really what their next shot will be after the S2 :grin:
...blocked up shadows on a P65+?David Farkas did the shots. I think he used C1 for the P65+ and Lightroom with no profile for the S2! They were not identical shots. The P65+ was shot on a tripod, all the S2 shots were handheld. I don't know what cam/lens was used for the P65+. David said that the P65+ shot was one of Phase's "reference" shots for great image quality. You could see the shadows blocking-up and the foliage getting a little smeared in the P65+ shot and a similar shot on the S2 was crystal clear - both shots were outdoors in similar lighting with similar field of view and subject distances. I know there are a lot of variables, but I think David's pretty good at both systems.
Can't wait to learn more in OR
Thanks for the kudos but let's play fair. How about you link to the test itself which includes the raw files. PLEASE everyone look at the raw files. Make your own judgments.Brad,
Actually, the P65+ shot I showed you was a sample from Capture Integration's website, shot in the alley behind their store in Atlanta with a Cambo RS and Schneider Digitar lens, on a tripod. The file is available here for download: http://www.captureintegration.com/download/P65_plus_10fall.zip. I consider CI to be a trustworthy and competent source for P1 shooting and processing.
LOL. Christopher: you're completely right. We took that test to show a customer the relative sensor sizes (ergo the wide angle coverage) of the 65+/45+/40+ which was the most important part of the decision for him. The JPGs were garbage as we used default noise reduction settings. I've taken down the JPGs and will at some point reprocess/repost them as time allows, but in the meanwhile of course we provided the raw files.@CI ((OUCH, how can you upload such a file from a P65+ ? IT hurts to see it. Sorry but it really looks bad. I mean it looks worse than a lot of Canon shots.)) Ok just saw that there is not only the JPG David linked but a raw file. That is fine than.
@ David No wonder the S2 looked better. I mean if that was the results I am getting from my P65 I would have thrown it out of the window a long time ago ;-)
Capture Integration continues to consider becoming an S2 dealer and so we are VERY excited to see a production/shipping S2 so we can do real comparisons and see if the product we would be selling lives up to the pre-production marketing. We want to SEE.Ok stop here right now. The P65+ certainly does not block up shadows earlier than any other back I have seen. Nor do I believe that the S2 is better.
"You could see the shadows blocking-up and the foliage getting a little smeared in the P65+ shot and a similar shot on the S2 was crystal clear"
Sorry but that sounds like wrong processing. I can't say for sure, but is sounds, like the default Noise Removal was on. Which in C1 I think is still the BIGGEST mistake you can make. If you do that you can get better results with every camera in Lightroom ^^
...
So now let's get back to the S2. I love how it feels and shoots. I can't say anything about it's image quality, however I can say, that it won't and CAN'T replace a P65 + LF system. So it can't replace that. So now what ? Could it replace my Canon System ? I fear not. As much as i hope for it, I fear that ISO 800 is the limit. Which just gives me one more stop than my Phase System.
I can see this thread heading Left (or is it Right?) and I'm sure Marc will excuse us all, but I find the statement above somewhat questionable...are any of the mentioned files from both systems available anywhere in their raw format?I have to agree with Al after seeing David F's images in Seattle. We looked at hundreds of S2 images and some P65+ images shot under ideal circumstances and I have to say that I have never in my life seen better digital files than I saw from the S2. It was head and shoulders above the P65+ in detail and clarity. I felt as if I was looking at 4x5 drum scans. I can't stand up for Leica's pricing, or the pricing of any MF digital for that matter unless you can recover the cost in a few assignments, but if you need absolutely the best image quality for very large prints, I don't know of any better system at any price than the S2. Period.
Sorry if my earlier post came across snappy. I am a bit sensitized to people complaining that the S2 should cost much less, without taking into account the cost of "Made in Germany" from top-notch materials, compared to those made in cheaper countries, at much higher volumes, and from less expensive materials. Specifically, I find it hard to contain myself when people claim that the S2 *should* cost around $10000, barely more than a 1Ds3/D3x.Price is only one part of the equation for the S2 purchase decision. The price is what it is and each of us has to determine for ourselves how it affects the purchase decision. The point of my earlier post was not too bash Leica for their pricing (e.g., it's not their fault the US dollar is low).