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An S2 strategy: your thoughts?

carstenw

Active member
I imagine Leica simply want to make money, and will be happy to sell their camera to whoever will buy it. As Dale said, they only need a few professionals for credibility. Mind you, if it's as good as it might be, then I would have thought there will be professionals who can and will afford the price of entry.
Bingo. The kind of pro this camera is so obviously aimed at doesn't hang around here. There are a few on LL, and there are many more who just don't hang around photo forums, or at least don't post. High-flying fashion photography matches this camera to a T and I wouldn't be surprised to see the S2 quasi-take over this market in a year or two, unless some of the other manufacturers respond in kind. These high-end pros don't need to worry about the money, they will worry about the feature-set and the service, and if it is right, they will order two and half the lens lineup in one go.

For a landscape photographer, the S2 would be kinda nice, but not really necessary. A high-end fashion photographer would probably look at this camera and go "finally!". As long as it works well, and the service is good.
 

carstenw

Active member
I'm not sure how any of us would know who Leica gives free equipment to. I'm pretty sure that they don't publish that list.
Well, there are two reasons to give away a camera, and for the first, you are right. Feedback is wanted, no one needs to know. The second type is for publicity, like Seal, and we will know when they do it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well, there are two reasons to give away a camera, and for the first, you are right. Feedback is wanted, no one needs to know. The second type is for publicity, like Seal, and we will know when they do it.
Having a name means absolutely nothing. I know more names that there work flat out sucks. It's not photography but marketing yourself. Issue is many people base the photography on how good the model looks not how good the shooter is. I seen more hacks in the fashion world than anywhere and the models are making them the money not the other way around. People really lost touch with the great shooters of the world and what they look at is all surface imagery anymore not the style of the real photographers body of work. Stick a canon in a face and lets go 8 fps at ISO 3200 with **** light is not photography, it's a sell out. Most of these folks don't know what a light is. That is where the dying art is, when people stop using lighting to create art
 

KeithL

Well-known member
However, I think most photographers will want the S2 after they get a chance to handle the camera and see the files that it and the lenses produce.
Mark
That may well be your position and the position of "most photographers", but it isn't mine.
 

carstenw

Active member
Having a name means absolutely nothing. I know more names that there work flat out sucks. It's not photography but marketing yourself. Issue is many people base the photography on how good the model looks not how good the shooter is. I seen more hacks in the fashion world than anywhere and the models are making them the money not the other way around. People really lost touch with the great shooters of the world and what they look at is all surface imagery anymore not the style of the real photographers body of work. Stick a canon in a face and lets go 8 fps at ISO 3200 with **** light is not photography, it's a sell out. Most of these folks don't know what a light is. That is where the dying art is, when people stop using lighting to create art
I am not talking about lighting, talent, high ISO or anything else. I am talking about high-pressure, high-throughput fashion photography. Don't get me wrong, I like almost no fashion photography, but there is any number of photographers in this segment earning well into 6 and 7 digits, in NYC, LA, Paris, London, Milano, and so on, and these people may well buy an S2. It fits the bill.
 

David K

Workshop Member
I know I want one. Just need to wait a little while till those bailout dollars trickle down to my level. Of course they might be on the S5 before that happens :)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Following all of this discussions with great interest. And I could not say they are wrong - of course not.

But I would buy a S2 in a minute if I would be convinced it is sufficient for great landscape work and resulting high res large format fine art prints. But I am not really convinced, maybe after some first test results.

So it could very well be that the S2 is not only for fashion photography and the likes, but also some great system for landscape and nature.

Will become interesting in a few weeks from now when we see first results :D
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Peter
:clap::clap:
I think I agree with almost every word,
In fact all you guys know you want one.
Except for this one - it isn't for me. . .. If I really did want one, then I suppose I could have one, but it wouldn't suit my type of photography. Two M9 bodies is a different matter :ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

beamon

New member
Hi Marc,

Great suggestions above. They are given with great thought and expertise in the field, BUT, all become academic if you allow time and patience to be your friend. Time you have; patience...maybe or maybe not.

Considering the array of gear you have, just wait a bunch of months to a year OR MORE. Sometime down the road, you'll be able to "borrow" one to put through the wringer, or at the very least, as David F. says, rent one!

Jorgen questions whether you will be able to resist the temptation of new gear in the future and points to that bedeviling thing called "lust". Lust producers come in various forms depending on the area of interest, but in photography, I'd venture the guess that lust is produced more by reading boards than any other factor. Mortal men/ladies with a passion for the medium can not resist reading the boards, so you will have to steel yourself against the resultant lust.

Lacking even a fraction of the experience of the posters here, I cannot presume to guide you except in the one thing of which I'm certain...go slow or better yet, go not at all (until much later, that is). :D

Like Peter, though, I'm glued to this thread and immensely enjoying watching others agonize on how to spend their/others' money. Best of luck!
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
My strategy is to get my hands on one, then:
it will be an ignore or acquire decision. Probably ignore IMO
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Lemme see now - an S2 Platinum 40 megapixel camera with a 35/70/180 is how much more than a PhimiyaBlad with a 28/80/150 ?

Hmm which one looks better?

I can arrange all the M lenses I own along one side of a shelf and then all the lenses for the S2 along the other. My mint M3/M7/MPs and M8's leading to the M9. The S2 and lenses balancing out the display.

I will use the same colour corrected lighting I use in my gallery to shine up through glass and down in order to make an interesting anecodote for this years dinner party circuit.

If I was after utility - I'd buy a plastic fantastic CaNikon..would I display this stuff? Would you?

hahahahhahah


on making pics - you say? Sheesh boyz I cant see the difference in an A3 print between any of the cameras I own and use. We passed that point years ago - everything now is just marketing spin and post hoc rationalisation.

There is a pure honesty in what I write. The more Leica stick to this demographic - the more successful they will be.

I dont run money for 401K plans - ther eisnt any margin in it and peopel dont repsect risk and return. they want a mass market brand name and cheapo deluxo savings solutions.

it is all about bespoke service to teh right demographic in any market you are in - as a provider of goods and services OR as a buyer.

Cheers
Pete
 

jonoslack

Active member
hahahahhahah


on making pics - you say? Sheesh boyz I cant see the difference in an A3 print between any of the cameras I own and use. We passed that point years ago - everything now is just marketing spin and post hoc rationalisation.
:lecture::ROTFL::thumbs::toocool:
Hi Peter
so will you be getting the first one in Australia?
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I know I want one. Just need to wait a little while till those bailout dollars trickle down to my level. Of course they might be on the S5 before that happens :)

At which point the price of a used S2 might even be in the sub-$10k range. Heck, we might even be able to get a used S2 body and a few used lenses for that price. One can only hope......:thumbup:

Gary
 

bensonga

Well-known member
....I cannot presume to guide you except in the one thing of which I'm certain...go slow or better yet, go not at all (until much later, that is). :D
Hey, we agree on something! Some folks just have to be in the leading edge, for commercial, professional or personal reasons.....for the rest of us, it's good to be on the trailing edge. It saves alot of money and potential heartburn.

Gary
 
G

gdwhalen

Guest
Hey, we agree on something! Some folks just have to be in the leading edge, for commercial, professional or personal reasons.....for the rest of us, it's good to be on the trailing edge. It saves alot of money and potential heartburn.

Gary
I'm curious as to why people in here care what other people do with their money? Although I will not be buying into the S2 system I have no issues with anyone else doing so for "whatever" reason they deem fit. All the best to them.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
I'm curious as to why people in here care what other people do with their money? Although I will not be buying into the S2 system I have no issues with anyone else doing so for "whatever" reason they deem fit. All the best to them.
I agree....all the best to them...for whatever reason they deem fit. Not my concern.

I'm just glad that someone will buy the S2 (and S3, S4, S5 etc) so that someday I might afford/buy a lightly used S2 (perhaps owned by a busy hedge fund manager). :thumbs:

Gary
 

stephengilbert

Active member
"I'm curious as to why people in here care what other people do with their money?"

I think the answer for many is that the original post asked people for advice. ("Your thoughts?")
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hi Marc,

Great suggestions above. They are given with great thought and expertise in the field, BUT, all become academic if you allow time and patience to be your friend. Time you have; patience...maybe or maybe not.

Considering the array of gear you have, just wait a bunch of months to a year OR MORE. Sometime down the road, you'll be able to "borrow" one to put through the wringer, or at the very least, as David F. says, rent one!

Jorgen questions whether you will be able to resist the temptation of new gear in the future and points to that bedeviling thing called "lust". Lust producers come in various forms depending on the area of interest, but in photography, I'd venture the guess that lust is produced more by reading boards than any other factor. Mortal men/ladies with a passion for the medium can not resist reading the boards, so you will have to steel yourself against the resultant lust.

Lacking even a fraction of the experience of the posters here, I cannot presume to guide you except in the one thing of which I'm certain...go slow or better yet, go not at all (until much later, that is). :D

Like Peter, though, I'm glued to this thread and immensely enjoying watching others agonize on how to spend their/others' money. Best of luck!
First of all, I'm not spending a penny ... yet. Talk is cheap. :angel:

I had gear lust before the internet was a twinkle in some geek's eye. :)

- Marc
 

yaya

Active member
Bingo. The kind of pro this camera is so obviously aimed at doesn't hang around here. There are a few on LL, and there are many more who just don't hang around photo forums, or at least don't post. High-flying fashion photography matches this camera to a T and I wouldn't be surprised to see the S2 quasi-take over this market in a year or two, unless some of the other manufacturers respond in kind. These high-end pros don't need to worry about the money, they will worry about the feature-set and the service, and if it is right, they will order two and half the lens lineup in one go.

For a landscape photographer, the S2 would be kinda nice, but not really necessary. A high-end fashion photographer would probably look at this camera and go "finally!". As long as it works well, and the service is good.
Let's talk reality for a second; The majority of high end (digital) fashion photography in recent years has been done on either Canon 1Ds II/ III cameras or Phase/ Leaf backs attached to H1/H2 or an RZ. If this new camera wants to succeed there it needs to win the Canon on Speed/ potability/ high iso & fast AF and then to win the MF solutions on tethered workflow and image quality

Or it can sit somewhere in the middle, being slightly faster than MF and slightly better than Canon (IQ wise).

Tethered workflow is where MF is king (at least Phase and Leaf) and this is after 15 years (since 1994, when the Leaf Catchlight was introduced) of fine tuning it and optimising its performance and functionality.

The two most popular software packages (for tethering MF) in recent years have been C1 (3 and later on 4) and LC. The new camera tethers to none of those.

High iso, portability, fast AF and fast capture is where Canon is king (and recently Nikon as well). The new camera offers nothing better in those areas.

This is how it is going to be judged for high end fashion photography plus it'll have to be widely available in rental in the major cities. 1,000 units/ year are not going to make an impact there I'm afraid.
 
G

gdwhalen

Guest
Why any professional photographer would buy into a system with only 3-4 lenses is beyond me.
 
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