The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

[Geoff]

I think there are two main "sins" Leica have committed here:
1 - Announced the product a year too early
2 - Priced themselves out of the game they want to play.

+1

 

[LJL]

Is it that Leica has announced the product a year too early, or really that they are fielding this camera system a year or more too late??

LJ

 

[robmac]

What is interesting is the dichotomy between the approaches used by the two management teams re: the release of the M9 and S2. The M9's development and release was, in all fairness, brilliantly managed. Very Apple-esque and VERY effective. The S2's ... (IMHO) an utter bollocks.

As others have stated, announced WAY too early, priced in the stratosphere in the midst of a MFDB price war, etc., etc. All it did was create a buzz - and then paint a large target on the product's forehead as the months go by with repeated (odd) delays and an utter (inexplicable) vacuum of RAW DNG files for folks to shake & bake (and thus keep their interest alive).

 

[gdwhalen]

What is interesting is the dichotomy between the approaches used by the two management teams re: the release of the M9 and S2. The M9's development and release was, in all fairness, brilliantly managed. Very Apple-esque and VERY effective. The S2's ... (IMHO) an utter bollocks.

As others have stated, announced WAY too early, priced in the stratosphere in the midst of a MFDB price war, etc., etc. All it did was create a buzz - and then paint a large target on the product's forehead as the months go by with repeated (odd) delays and an utter (inexplicable) vacuum of RAW DNG files for folks to shake & bake (and thus keep their interest alive).

For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

Now I shoot Hasselblad.

 

[cmb_]

For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

Now I shoot Hasselblad.

 

[ptomsu]

For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

Now I shoot Hasselblad.

I could not agree more )

 

[Paratom]

Well, maybe you could decide on two I have M and MF and it works well for me. Sometimes I feel that I could use fast AF or 5 fps, but when I look at what I get with my two systems, there isn't anything missing. There are only CCDs and no AA filters in my collection

yeah,
I could live with 2 but rather live with 3 plus
The problem is that I am afraid that after some time I would be tempted again to get a dslr and selling + buying in again later just wastes a lot of money.
Still - if I would loose my job I could "exist" with "just" an M8 or M9 and 2-3 lenses.

 

[Paratom]

For those that remember the S2 release follows almost the exact same pattern as the DMR. Announce, delay, no word, delay, no word, release - beautiful images but out-of-date pixel count and poor firmware support. By the time they got it all put together they discontinued it without a word of warning. Then did the same thing with the R10.

Now I shoot Hasselblad.

I agree the DMR came late but I also believe that it was underrated for long time.
Many agree that - besides pure resolution numbers - it is still one of the best sensors.
So yes, the S2 is delayed and (too) exoensive (for me) but I still exoect it to be an excellent image taking tool.

 

[Steen]

I'm the patient type.
If I know there's something good to wait for, I can wait for it.
I like early announcements. And I love roadmaps.
Early announcements and roadmaps enable me to make decisions based on informations.

 

[Christopher]

Well road maps are nice, IF they a true. In the case of Leica they are not. (What a surprise ^^) The same goes for every other company, I don't need to know about a product which COULD be out in a year and than get's delayed another 6 months. Sorry no need for that, just a waste of time.

When it comes to the DMR, I think people wouldn't hold it that high up, if it hadn't a RED dot, sorry, but it never really shined for me. Is it capable to produce great images ? Yes, can the same be done with a Canon or Nikon, yes. In the it just is another 35mm camera, nothing more.

 

[georgl]

The S2 is part of a new system in a new market for Leica. The Leica M9 had a predecessor, but the S2 is completely new, that's why they decided to present it within prototype-stage - that's quite common in the professional cine-market (where cameras have to be much more reliable and are also much more expensive).

The DMR was developed and made by Imacon - no further support, no upgrades, not manufactured anymore - quite different from the S2 (which is the first self-developed digital-camera from Leica since the S1).

When they can really deliver the camera in decemeber, those two months delay are quickly forgotten.

But they should give some real updates, they had "nullserie"-cameras since may (I think about 50!) but weren't taking them to presentations (instead they were using the leftover prototypes from Photokina) and they don't show us DNGs or even large JPGs - that's typical Leica...

And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!

 

[tjv]

And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!

Conspiracy theory, anyone?:shocked:

 

[dfarkas]

And what happened to David Farkas review? He tested it in September, wanted to release it and waited for some technical answers from Solms (?) but then the camera was postponed and we heard nothing anymore!

Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

David

 

[ptomsu]

Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

David

David,

no problem, you are anyway still much faster than Leica as history proves

 

[Christopher]

David nice review. I will not say anything about image quality, I think it would be a waste of time. It looks nice, but nothing special. I think one has to actually use it to get a better feeling. What I really hope is that we see some higher ISO images soon. I know you couldn't do that at the time, but now it should be possible. At least Leica claims the camera is finished ^^

 

[PeterA]

Thanks David you gave a great review on how it felt to use the camera. thats what I am hoping to be the clincher for me - ergonomics. I'd be happy with the quality if it matched current MFD backs between 33 and 40 megapixels. If the total workflow and ease of use combined with sealing geat bright viewfinder ( surprised you think the H viewfinder isnt bright - if the S2 is better ..well thats a big factor for me) its got size,shooting speed,ergonomics and iQ as good as similar sized MF chips - with what you say is the best glass Leica have ever made? wow big big call..

Geez I would love to see some wide angle shots..thats the clincher for me - it has everything I would ever want in a DSLR sized body with a big fast chip..

this camera is so undorklike ( I mean c'mon ther eis nothing sexy about holding a H or any other MF body ..they all look so ..ordinary and ugly - it is going to be a winner with the cool dude check this out crowd -

Thanks
Pete

 

[carstenw]

Great review David, it is really nice to read at length about this very interesting camera. I am impressed by almost everything about it so far.

I am not totally keen on all aspects of the menu system. One small item, for example, is the image review navigation. I understand that with no dedicated up/down/left/right controls, mapping the four soft buttons to navigation will be a challenge, but I think that rather than using the top-left button to flip between horizontal and vertical navigation, it might be nicer to have two separate buttons, perhaps top-left for up/down and bottom-left for left/right navigation. It would be a tad less obscure, and more positive, and could function in either press-hold-scroll or press-lock-scroll mode.

I would also like to see some more high ISO modes, as well as longer exposures, as you suggested in the review. At the moment this seems like a weakness in the specs.

FWIW, I do believe that one of your shots shows moiré. Look at this shot, in the bottom right area, along the receding wall of the building, just below and to the left of the woman sitting on her bacony, wondering what you are doing, and there are some slats of some kind. The first few have a blue tinge, and slightly further on they have a red tinge. It isn't much, but it is there. If you agree that it is indeed moiré, perhaps Leica would appreciate seeing the DNG to analyze.

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/shareID6403983/fileID424700123/424700123.jpg

N.B. There is a small typo; search for "with go blank".

 

[carstenw]

this camera is so undorklike ( I mean c'mon ther eis nothing sexy about holding a H or any other MF body ..they all look so ..ordinary and ugly - it is going to be a winner with the cool dude check this out crowd -

While not as elegant as the S2, I think that both the Contax and the Hy6 are quite attractive cameras...

 

[ptomsu]

David,

read your review and I must say THANKS A LOT!!!

If the S System really performs as you found (and I do not doubt this) it should be really worth to wait a few months and get into it instead of jumping on that "old" MFDB train.

Especially I like your comparison shots in the begin of your review with H3D and Phase cameras - they really do look ugly

Looking forward to get a S2 in my hands end of this year or begin of next year to get some feeling myself.

 

[dougpeterson]

David: thank you for contributing to the world of knowledge and opinion on the S2.

Capture Integration will be testing real-world results of the S2 with a full production model versus Canon/Phase/Hasselblad in early December in Miami, Florida.

This includes an open house on December 3rd at our Miami location. Anyone who can make it to our location will be given (to the extent possible) the chance to do their own testing to contribute to the community.

For those who can't make it to the office for that open house we strongly encourage requests for specific tests by email ([email protected]), though with the understanding that we won't be able to do every test.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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