gogopix
Subscriber
I guess I don't understand comments like this. It isn't a MFDB. It is what it is. Wasn't planned to make omlettes either.
However, if it doesn't work well I am sure it will find use as a boat anchor.
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The Leica S2 System and Image Quality
- Thread starter carstenw
- Start date
However, if it doesn't work well I am sure it will find use as a boat anchor.
That's the semi-sarcastic point I was trying to make ... MFD is primarily a studio/commercial-location solution, and in my experience used that way far more than it is as a landscape camera or replacement for a high-end 35mm DSLR. Forums like this and other popular ones may make it seem the opposite, and skew opinions as to what the manufacturers should be concentrating on. IMO, Pro photographers like Guy who try to use a MFD for all types of shooting are pretty rare.
Live Preview as you call it, isn't what I'm talking about ... it's Live View. It just isn't on the LCD, it's on the computer screen. For many, if not most, commercial applications this is far more useful and valuable ... because with most MFD software you can insert the Art Directors layout and compose to fit ... live, and in real time. To me, that's Live View.
MFD manufactures have made their systems more versatile with the increase in ISO, and improving the AF abilities for more spontaneous applications. So your request for a Live View feature like Canon/Nikon probably isn't out of the question. The only time I use LV on the Nikon D3X is in controlled shooting when using manual focus lenses at 10X mag to check focus accuracy.
However, I wonder if all MFD user opinions were represented, what features and improvements would be more prevalent to guide the MFD company's priorities? These companies aren't giants churning out millions of P&S cameras to supplement their high-end products, so they have to pick and choose carefully.
In "improvement polls" I've seen on forum sites more skewed to working Pros, I don't recall on-camera Live View being a priority. But to your point, it wasn't increased meg count either. If I recall correctly, it was boring stuff like platform stability, transfer speed, and software improvements which both Hasselbald and Phase have been addressing ... as well as obvious practical stuff like multi-point AF ... which Hasselblad has recently addressed by avoiding multipoint altogether and inventing a whole new off center AF solution ... giving someone like me the first real reason to consider upgrading my H3D ... because meg count wasn't reason enough.
This doesn't negate what you want, it's just a question of priorities and ability to respond to all the demands.
To me, the S2 is a "tweaner" ... neither fish nor fowl. Not as fast, not as high ISO, not as good with multipoint AF ability as a high end DSLR ... and not as versatile as a modular systems MFD. That said, I'm sure it will find its following with those that need none of the special attributes of a 35mm DSLR or Modular MFD system.
If any camera should have included on-camera Live View, it is the S2. Hell, maybe it has it and I just missed that feature.
-Marc
Hi Guy,
I believe the longer one is using a certain system the more one adapts to the system and might even forget whats possible with other systems.
After some weeks using mainly the M9 I took the d3x at the last weekend and I was surprized how good the continous AF of my D3x works and felt I could catch some moments which I could not have caught with neither the M9 nor MF since I would not be fast enough. I feel pretty fast with the M9 but just not for everything. And I feel the same about MF.
On the other side I admit to use MF sometimes for things where others would wonder why I did not use my dslr. Like for family snaps or during a hike.
I believe the longer one is using a certain system the more one adapts to the system and might even forget whats possible with other systems.
After some weeks using mainly the M9 I took the d3x at the last weekend and I was surprized how good the continous AF of my D3x works and felt I could catch some moments which I could not have caught with neither the M9 nor MF since I would not be fast enough. I feel pretty fast with the M9 but just not for everything. And I feel the same about MF.
On the other side I admit to use MF sometimes for things where others would wonder why I did not use my dslr. Like for family snaps or during a hike.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Very true Tom the longer and more intimate you get with a system the more you know how to get around things and work towards it's strength's and hopefully overcome it's obstacles as well. What I am doing is NOT normal and having one system be the end all system. I just have a hard time going back to 35mm and CMOS sensors and even though some work it would not matter one bit , it matters to me personally. Honestly I would feel like I am wasting my time and get bored. I like the challenge and actually it keeps me from burning out after 33 years. Personal thing here but burn out is death to your business and your art. I will try anything to avoid it and having challenges keeps blood in your toes. LOL
In some way I think it is great what you do and I wish I could make my mind up in a way that I would only use one system. Maybe it makes life much easier and keeps the mind free. Plus one can really focus on this one system and get totally compfortable with it.
If I had to choose only one it would be the M9 for me. But this is probably because I have continously allways used rangefinder cameras (M6, RD1 than M8 and now M9) for approx. 25 years now.
In the end I am not strong enough to decide for only one system.
I'm the exact opposite ... 180 degrees opposite.
One system bores me to tears ... no ... bores me to death ... no ... beyond death.
If I had the money, I'd have Sherpas carrying everything I owned and could rent to every shoot. :ROTFL:
It's my gear Harem ... a different one every day. That's the challenge I like ... keeps blood in my ... well, not my toes.
Hell, I carry 3 different make cameras and select lenses for each to every wedding. I'm a lens whore, and select stuff based on lenses ... the stupid boxes are all the same to me.
Nikon with the 2 fab wide to normal zooms, a Sony with the Zeiss 85/1.4 and 135/1.8, a M9 with just about every fast lens they make (7 of them).
I'm a scientific packer and fit it all in Think Tank's smallest roller ... the M kit all fits in a Kata shoulder bag that could hardly hold a D3X with one lens.
My requirement for an assistant is a strong back first, interest in photography second
:ROTFL:
-Marc
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Gear Slut. LOL
woodyspedden
New member
Yep. I went through the 12 steps, and instead of being cured I converted my entire addiction support team into gear sluts.
Keepin' the economy humpin' one lens at a time. :ROTFL:
-Marc
Well, my former client crowd got caught up in the Allen Stanford mess, not so much the Madoff one, but the results are the same. West Palm and Wellington were the polo haunts that I was referring to.Suggest we eliminate the West Palm reference and blame it on Bernie Madoff
LJ
Yes , it could be a "leg" as in ... "It cost an arm and a leg."
Or the case of the S2 one would be left with no appendages at all, which means one would have to hire someone to actually use the camera for you.
-Marc
ptomsu
Workshop Member
I am coming more and more to this conclusion as well! I have no real need for real fast multipoint AF and I very seldom use tele lenses longer than 300mm. So I actually also could be very happy with just M and MF.Well, maybe you could decide on two
The longer I think over it the more this becomes clear for me. And be honest - for those rare cases where I really need a DSLR with fast AF and an exotic lens, I can either rent this or just buy a kind of EOS 7D or D300 or similar with a Sigma or Tamron lens and get happily the results I want in these rare occasions. And they also do a good job at high ISO levels as well.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Little decision I made a long time ago it costs about 450 or more just for a back and body per day. To rent a 5dMKII cost 175 dollars a day. Now since it is harder to charge back the client for my type of work for rental fees it actually makes sense to own the MF and rent the 35mm when I really need it. I can certainly up my rate a little to cover the 35mm rental fee but not at 450 per day. Now for some owning the 35mm and renting a MF per is less costly on the initial purchase and that rental would be maybe less times. Personally i would rather own the big gun and rent the pistol when needed. Which I actually have yet to do but also getting a 35mm I can go two places within 20 minutes driving and get one, MF i would pretty much have to get it out of LA from Samy's.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
There is of course great truth behind. And renting MF as you say is not only more costly, but also harder to get than 35mm.
Now for 35mm I could really survive with a camera of a generation ago, which usually I can get pretty cheap if new and even cheaper if pre owned. To be honest I would need it only if I go on Safari (which I do not as often anymore unfortunately) or photographing wild animals or so - then you need a good and fast tele lens. But again for just using it once every year or every two years it does not pay off to buy one. At least not a Nikon or Canon. Then maybe renting it or going for Sigma or Tamron is the much better solution.
To be honest I made pretty good experiences with Sigma glass on Canon - only thing it might not be as robust as original glass, but again if you use it only very infrequently it is the much cheaper and practical solution.
vieri
Well-known member
Aren't we all, deep inside
no, wait... no need to search that deep down! :ROTFL:I think there are two main "sins" Leica have committed here:
1 - Announced the product a year too early
2 - Priced themselves out of the game they want to play
All the rest is so obvious to anyone who's done an elementary high school economics class, and other manufactures can be slapped for doing this too. Eg not having the entire system of glass and accessories ready for people to buy at launch. Not being able to buy your three bread and butter lenses, or at least the "normal zoom" at the same time as the body if adopting early is a real turn off. That's far worse than when Canon couldn't supply spare batteries for their 5DMKII where I live until THREE MONTHS after launch - at least there were lenses to actually use to take THE photo you were PAID to take.
I'd love an S2 because it has 100% of the specs I'd like in a camera, but I honestly wonder why no one at Leica thought to release the normal zoom at the time of launch instead of or as well as the two primes. Then again, by the time the body hits the streets the lenses might be due to their promised release date... Wait a minute...
1 - Announced the product a year too early
2 - Priced themselves out of the game they want to play
All the rest is so obvious to anyone who's done an elementary high school economics class, and other manufactures can be slapped for doing this too. Eg not having the entire system of glass and accessories ready for people to buy at launch. Not being able to buy your three bread and butter lenses, or at least the "normal zoom" at the same time as the body if adopting early is a real turn off. That's far worse than when Canon couldn't supply spare batteries for their 5DMKII where I live until THREE MONTHS after launch - at least there were lenses to actually use to take THE photo you were PAID to take.
I'd love an S2 because it has 100% of the specs I'd like in a camera, but I honestly wonder why no one at Leica thought to release the normal zoom at the time of launch instead of or as well as the two primes. Then again, by the time the body hits the streets the lenses might be due to their promised release date... Wait a minute...