The Leica S2 System and Image Quality

[jonoslack]

Hi LJ,

Guy and I will be running the files through both C1 and the latest build of ACR and doing our best with each.

Hi Guy
I hope you'll be using the LR3 beta as well - it seems to have a pretty radically improved processing engine, which is not yet reflected in the ACR releases (and after all, that's what the camera ships with!). I know you guys don't use Aperture, but I'd like to see what happens there as well.

LJ
I would have thought that one of the good things about the S2 is that in producing generic DNG files they will be immediately supported in so many different programs, rather than being tied to proprietary software (however good that may be).

all the best

 

[LJL]

LJ
I would have thought that one of the good things about the S2 is that in producing generic DNG files they will be immediately supported in so many different programs, rather than being tied to proprietary software (however good that may be).

all the best

Jono,
I agree. My point was that presently, the S2 files do not yet have finely tuned profiles from many (any?) processing engines. We are not yet seeing final production versions until only now, so some things may still change. My point about Leica not having a dedicated processing app is not to discredit DNG, but that we are all still going to be limited by whatever soup the various processors concoct for the S2 files at this point, rather than being able to be served the files as best intended from the S2. Support of processing by numerous programs is not the issue as much as how well the data gets translated in the app, and that is where the camera profile will matter, I think.

I do agree that LR3 beta should be used to process the files also, as theoretically, that will be the most current algorithm and profile for handling the S2. I would also like to see how Aperture handles the files, but I would like to see Apple put out some updated profiles first.

LJ

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Jack,
Quite agree and I do understand. I was not mentioning the processor issues to discredit anyone, but rather to let people start thinking about how long it may be before all that dust may get settled. I think C1 will do fine for now. ACR.....well, we know that is entering a state of flux, so things may turn out very well.....but that may be a bit later. Presently, ACR still leaves something to be desired for many users, while others find that it does the job quite well for them. Six months from now, we may be seeing lots of improvement in processing algorithms, and that could once again cause us to readjust our perspectives on things....or not. If the S2 files capture the data, that is all that will matter. How that data gets extracted and used to its fullest will develop with time (no pun intended).

Other point.....why not use a real sized big Macbeth Color Checker for the broader angled outdoor scenes? The tiny ones are great for close in work, but tend to get too lost in bigger shooting

LJ

We just ordered two new X-Rite passports for each other and I have a full card but it is getting old so thought a new one would be great . I also have a WhiBal card as well. We are working on developing a profile for it right now. I will also download L3 beta but I don't think we will need it

 

[LJL]

We just ordered two new X-Rite passports for each other and I have a full card but it is getting old so thought a new one would be great . I also have a WhiBal card as well. We are working developing a profile for it right now

Great. You folks should be armed and dangerous :thumbs:

Seriously, I am looking forward to whatever you guys test....from boring to arty....it is all about what the camera is able to produce in a somewhat more realistic use/test. Pull out as many stops as you like. This should be quite instructive and interesting for everybody.

LJ

 

[Bob]

Should be up later today..... thanks for asking. I was waiting on a few things from Leica, which I got resolution on during PhotoPlus two weeks ago. Been working on getting everything together since then, amidst work and toddler duties.

David

David,
I was looking over your blog and noticed this image as being labeled "strongly back-lit with no fill"

It seems to me that it is more rim-lit than back-lit and there is evidence of a rather large and near reflective object in both the reflection in her eyes and the specular modeling on her face. Was there a reflector of some sort used?
thanks
-bob

 

[LJL]

Bob,
I agree.....would not call that backlit (strong side lighting as the folds on the back of her top show how bright that light is), and there does appear to be something behind the photographer throwing a lot of light onto the model's face. It may not be "fill flash", but it is fill light for sure.....notice the tiny pupils.

LJ

 

[dfarkas]

David,
I was looking over your blog and noticed this image as being labeled "strongly back-lit with no fill"

It seems to me that it is more rim-lit than back-lit and there is evidence of a rather large and near reflective object in both the reflection in her eyes and the specular modeling on her face. Was there a reflector of some sort used?
thanks
-bob

Bob,

The only light in this shot was the sun, which was behind and overhead and quite intense (it was about 3:45PM when this was taken). The reflection in the eyes is the stone floor and walls of the castle ruins we were shooting in. In full disclosure, I did apply a localized adjustment brush on here face to bring it up 0.9 stops. So, I used a PP reflector, you might say.

David

 

[Bob]

Bob,

The only light in this shot was the sun, which was behind and overhead and quite intense (it was about 3:45PM when this was taken). The reflection in the eyes is the stone floor and walls of the castle ruins we were shooting in. In full disclosure, I did apply a localized adjustment brush on here face to bring it up 0.9 stops. So, I used a PP reflector, you might say.

David

That stone floor or whatever it might be certainly does count as a reflector since you can see it reflected off her pupils.
... and a 0.9 stop local adjustment or dodge and burn is more than enough to alter the image. Personally I would prefer only global WB adjustments on demonstration files. Otherwise I don't know what I am looking at.
thanks
-bob

 

[dougpeterson]

That stone floor or whatever it might be certainly does count as a reflector since you can see it reflected off her pupils.
... and a 0.9 stop local adjustment or dodge and burn is more than enough to alter the image. Personally I would prefer only global WB adjustments on demonstration files. Otherwise I don't know what I am looking at.
thanks
-bob

I think Bob would be fine with it (I know I would be) if the raws were available, or the the "generic conversion" JPG (even in low res) was provided.

I don't buy cameras based on PP manipulated images from them.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Nick-T]

I don't buy cameras based on PP manipulated images from them.

So true Doug, one never knows what has been done to the RAW to get to a Tiff, so easy to click the wrong button in the processing software I find

Always better to see the raws ..

Nick-T

 

[LJL]

Doug and Nick-T,
You are probably not going to find too many folks disagreeing with you on this. On the other hand, from what was stated in other posts and the sales blog, Leica did not give permission to release the DNG files from the preproduction cameras used at that August demo trip, so no use worrying about that any more. Will be more interesting to see and get the RAW DNG files from the upcoming tests in December (Guy and Jack, and CI), plus some actual comparisons with same stuff shot with competitor cameras. Images speak more than lots of words at times ;-)

LJ

 

[Bob]

There is no story until the raws are available IMO.
-bob

 

[Dale Allyn]

Maybe Jack and Guy will be able to set up an FTP folder on the site as file repository for a while (err... I mean Andy ) once they decide on certain files from their tests which make sense to share. Big files are no minor task to move around, but an un-styled download page is pretty trivial to set up.

I don't mean to assume that the hosting agreement of this site has no bandwidth limits, but many hosting packages have no limits or very high limits, so thought I'd suggest it.

 

[Jack]

We're working on it I am thinking we will be able to load raw file image sets right on the site as zip folders you can download directly from your browser.

 

[Christopher]

70Mb per file with many people wanting to get them, that could get very expensive if one has bandwidth limits. Which in Germany is still standard.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Certainly not Iphone material.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

70Mb per file with many people wanting to get them, that could get very expensive if one has bandwidth limits. Which in Germany is still standard.

mediafire.com offers unlimited downloads for free (up to 100 MB file size)

 

[Dale Allyn]

If there is a concern of bogging down the forum, it could be set up on another account. If the attachment idea through the forum works that would be great. But if it causes grief I'd be willing to help set up a new domain and host them until people get the files they need. I use Hostgator which offers unlimited bandwidth, so it would be cheap to open a new account and create a simple directory if needed.

Of course I could just add a download folder to my current site, but at the cheap prices of hosting it might be better to avoid bogging down my site.

Anyway, I'm happy to help if there's any need or desire.

Edit: @Graham, I didn't ignore your post. You posted while I was typing. There are a few ways to handle the sharing, and fortunately these days it's pretty easy and cheap.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I always have my .me account worst case like I did with the M9 review

 

[Dale Allyn]

BTW: I see that Mediafire now offers 200MB/file for free.

If your .me account process is a hassle, Guy, I'm happy to host them if needed.