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If you had to buy...

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Shelby Lewis

Guest
BTW... how many of you actively employ shift/tilt in your landscape work? And how many are content to use tools like helicon focus. I do realize that you can't really replicate shift in post without loss of quality/perspective change...

I ask this from the standpoint that the original post also sought to keep the actual camera set-up to a minimum for weight savings on extended backpacking trips (multi-day)... thus the alpa TC or cambo compact. I'm being picky and counting ounces here.

Vieri, I'm glad to here you speak of lens size... as this also impacts my future plans (to backpack/hike).

Plate.Lens.Back.Tripod... that's about it if possible (ok, I know there are other things as well, but I'm speaking of the backbone of the kit).
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Shelby – Great question on T/S and the answer at least for me is that I haven’t used it since I switched to the WRS. That said I am seriously considering picking up a 47 T/S sometime soon.

I’ve also been using helicon focus with good results. One of my most favorite images using helicon focus is a piece I call “Twisted”. We’re currently in negotiations for usage rights of this image.



Keeping a minimal pack for multi-day trips in the field I think is going to be very hard unless you have someone else who will be packing the other essentials. Camera body, lens, film back(s), cables, extra film, filters, sturdy tripod and head are all going to add weight and mass in your backpack.

Don
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
BTW... how many of you actively employ shift/tilt in your landscape work? And how many are content to use tools like helicon focus. I do realize that you can't really replicate shift in post without loss of quality/perspective change...
Great question.

With MF, the need for tilt to alter Plane of Focus (PoF) is probably less significant than it is when shooting Large Format (4x5 or larger) due to the net loss of DoF as you go larger in format. OTOH, the latest high-resolution MF backs have small enough sensor sites that DoF becomes more important as by default our CoC essentially corresponds to sensor site diameter. So going forward, tilt is likely going to become a more desired feature again.

Enter Helicon Focus. I use it and like it, but it requires a minimum of 4 and more like 8 or 12 frames of differing focus points for a good blend in the typical landscape with a strong foreground. And anytime you utilize multiple exposures, you have the issue of subject movements to contend with -- most notably are clouds, leaves and water, all of which are common compositional elements in landscape images. So as good as HF is, it isn't an ideal solution for landscape, and tilt now becomes more of one.

Shift with MF digital is a double-edged sword. You gain compositional freedom, but with conventional lens designs on digital sensors you get a color shift across the sensor as you shift. This color shift then needs to be corrected by taking a white-frame or Lens Cast Correction (LCC) shot. The good news is subject motion is for the most part an irrelevant concern since the main image frame is still a single capture, so the only real issue is the hassel factor of taking the LCC frame. However, color casts are not much of an issue with longer lenses OR retrofocus lens designs common to DSLR TS lenses, so here the DSLR has a decided advantage in simplicity of capture. But still, to get the most from high resolution digital capture MF is the solution, so here we are...

>>>Sidebar comment >>> The above paragraph brings up another significant point: One reason I expressed a preference for the Digiron HR lens line over the Schneider Digitar line, is Rodenstock added more retrofocus to the Digiron designs specifically to help counteract color cast. Combined with the fact Dalsa sensors are more friendly to color shift than Kodak sensors to color shift, completes the main reason I chose the P65+ upgrade path to begin with.

Cheers,
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Sounds like fun! And just to make it easier on Jack – I’ll be returning to Yosemite late February we can meet there …

Of course we'll need Guy and Ken standing by as seconds :)
Jack and Guy---check your calendars for February 18-21 (close to PMA too!)

More later.... :D
 

carstenw

Active member
I decided against it and will order a 50/2.8 FE and 250/4 FE.
*******
The 50/2.8 FE is also good for improving physical fitness...it weighs ~1330 gms. :>)

Steve
Well, then I am going to get really fit, because in a week or so I will have two of them! I am buying an FE, but saw an F go for almost nothing today, and jumped in to snap it up. Now I have to figure out what to do with them both. I might just keep the F as a backup, or try to trade it against something more useful to me.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Sounds like fun! And just to make it easier on Jack – I’ll be returning to Yosemite late February we can meet there …

Of course we'll need Guy and Ken standing by as seconds :)
Jack and Guy---check your calendars for February 18-21 (close to PMA too!)

More later.... :D
Good ting Ken quoted you Don, I totally missed it the first time around! Will definitely try to make something happen while you're out in February -- and calendar is duly marked ;)
 
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tetsrfun

Guest
Well, then I am going to get really fit, because in a week or so I will have two of them! I am buying an FE, but saw an F go for almost nothing today, and jumped in to snap it up. Now I have to figure out what to do with them both. I might just keep the F as a backup, or try to trade it against something more useful to me.
For what it's worth, the Lenscoat Hoodie Medium lens cap provides added protection to the front 1/2 of the lens. The one that I bought was in Ex. cond but I did notice two small dents on the lens shade/filter ring. I suspect that the heavy weigh and 100mm diameter of the lens makes this area especially vulnerable to impact. Hopefully the added neoprene hood will give additional protection.

Steve
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Shelby,

I've followed your posts on your backpack kit with some interest. I used to do a lot of backpacking, climbing, etc., but it's mostly not my M.O. these days. But I've been eyeing a couple of trips for this next spring if certain things fall into place, so I appreciate your dilemma: weight and size vs. image quality and usability.

Tilt/shift is a very handy tool for landscape, but this also depends on one's photographic style, at least part of the time. Many stunning images can (of course) be made without it. With medium format the shallower DoF definitely is a challenge, but with practice and careful consideration one can achieve more favorable results than what might first be apparent in one's early efforts of using MF. As Jack mentions, it's not nearly so rough as 4x5 or larger.

Using Helicon Focus is an option, and maybe even a requirement for some images without the use of movements, but using it adds another element to the process that one needs to consider. Jack mentions the concerns of subject movement from frame to frame, and this can be very real in landscape work. Getting things to settle down (or more accurately, waiting and praying for breezes to stop) can be enough of a concern. What isn't mentioned very often with regard to Helicon is the personal feelings about the process. For me, shooting landscape loses a great deal when shooting for use with Helicon. I'm referring to the personal experience and feeling while shooting. This is why I say one needs to look at it beyond the idea of simply "can it work". For product type work it doesn't feel bad (or good) to me, it's simply a tool to record the item favorably.

I wrestle with the use of Helicon because the capture process sucks to me and the assemblage process feels counter to what I derive joy from: a single capture (other than the occasional pano), carefully composed, requiring no crop and minimal post (beyond traditional darkroom-type). (I'm definitely not suggesting that I always achieve that, but that's my goal and what makes me happy with an image.) Of course, many others feel quite the opposite about Helicon or HDR, etc, and that's great too. I suspect that the process of shooting for Helicon or HDR is what some people enjoy. There is no "correct" way for this. But I mention it in case one was to invest in a process because they're told it is possible, only to find out they lose some personal enjoyment from the process.

We're fortunate that we have so many options, and the beautiful work shared here and elsewhere shows that there are many ways to skin the cat. And those options make our outfitting process all the more complicated as we find our own personal paths. :)
 
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Shelby Lewis

Guest
... I appreciate your dilemma: weight and size vs. image quality and usability.
Yeah... there's always a tradeoff it seems. Luckily, backpacking gear has gotten lighter and lighter and if you're willing to do some homework (as well as lose a bit of comfort), you can easily hike with almost half the weight people generally hiked with 10-15 years back.... so I'm using some end-run logic to say that if I'm at the weight (with the camera) that most people hiked with 10 years ago (w/o a camera) then I'm doing fine :D:D

(snip)...I wrestle with the use of Helicon because the capture process sucks to me and the assemblage process feels counter to what I derive joy from: a single capture (other than the occasional pano), carefully composed, requiring no crop and minimal post (beyond traditional darkroom-type).
This really speaks to me, Dale. It didn't really hit me until I read this that so far I've overwhelmingly aimed for a single capture experience. I've done quite a bit of HDR stuff as well as some stitching and it just doesn't align with my style. I think it's why I'm so interested in a pancake camera as well... there's a simplicity to it that speaks volumes to me. I think it's why the 5dii, although I'm enjoying it's output for the most part, just doesn't meld with me. It's a computer with a lens (a good one at that).

I relate to simplicity and minimalism the same way Guy does to his "MF or die" work ethic. It sounds funny, but I'd rather go out with a simple camera and one or two lenses and "make it work". I swear, just like with my wedding work, the limitation almost forces me to be better... or go down in flames trying. :)
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Shelby, I agree. In fact, some of my favorite images came from walks for which I put a prime lens on a camera body and left all other gear behind, headed out for a walk, and shot what worked for the kit at hand. My favorite image is from such a walk, as is my most frequently requested "commercial-style" image.

And regarding backpacking: like many things, today we do have many weight saving advantages over the past. If one doesn't need to maintain a rapid pace, weight it less of a concern, but if planning to cover a lot of ground or elevation gain (and is no longer in one's 30's ;) ) weight can really be a factor.

:)
 
Dave – All kidding aside the XPan was an excellent little camera. What a great combination if it were to come back to life as a digital!

Don


Wouldn't it just!

I bought one of the last from the production line and I am very glad I did.

Great fun to use.

A friend of mine shot a wedding with it recently. I'll try and post some examples as it is the most interesting and enjoyable wedding set I have seen.

D.
 
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