Having spent my whole ad career at film shoots and in editing suites or animation houses, this is starting to sound a little to much like work
Shooting is most the fun but 1/10th the of the job. Jack up the RAM folks and pile on the terabytes.
BTW, it ain't all fun and games. Two movies here (2 that I know of) had to cash in their insurance and reshoot because of the poor files from RED units.
Could signal the same thing that happened when commercial still shooters went from film to digital ... oh, oh.
Marc, do you know what the problem was? Apparently the resolution is great, but I have heard mixed comments re. the CMOS readout, i.e. swimming images, and I don't know about the colours. Here is an example from a Canon consumer video camera to give an idea:
Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.
Lots of stuff being shot here in Michigan because of the huge Tax incentives ... major productions as well as Indie stuff.
Since the commercial business here has been devastated by the economy, all my friends are now working on these movies. Plus, my Sister-in-Law is a Hollywood accountant for major productions, and has been here for 3 months now ... so I get all the inside scoop.
I could have been the still guy for a bunch of these, but honestly, it is not even close to glamorous ... I'm so over rousting my rump out of bed a 3AM and standing in the cold for 10 hours day-after-day ... and I was the freaking' agency client. Can't imagine being the "Still Peon".
If that is like a Glock, this is like a MI Abrams ... (from one of my shoots):
He he, then you are in Bob.
I must say that RED ONE has performed incredibly well and it has and continues to produce some of the best images ever seen, including off corse Film. (not debating IQ of Digital vs. Film here, I believe different tool for different flavor) but IQ is IQ, unless off course you like noise in your footage.
When you get a moment could you post an image of you holding one of your
RedOnes so that we can get an idea of the size in relation to a person.
this are with the RED ONE, the RED EPIC Basic configuration will be about one third the size and about half the weight.
In the first one I'm holding it mounted on a Mantis Shoulder mount configuration, and on the second one shows the Top Handle configuration.
I will post some later on after my return from California with the New Epic and Scarlet cameras as well.
But for now the third one is the NEW RED EPIC next to the RED ONE (like the one I'm holding) and the fourth is the NEW RED SCARLET 2/3 Fixed 8x Zoom system next to the well known Nikon D3, and the last one (again) is the RED EPIC with a RED/CANON mount with the EF 85mm f/1.2L II mounted on, hope this gives you an idea of sizes.
Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 3rd November 2010 at 04:58.
Thanks for that, Ketch.
Product shots are alright for reference but to see an assembled camera system,in
hand, with a person really puts things into perspective.
Certainly is not a 5D Mk ll :>))
P.S.-Hope you are alright because it looks like you are being attacked by the
camera in that first image !
Welcome Mark, and no it is certainly not a 5DII both in size and IQ.
BUt the New EPIC and SCARLET series of cameras are again much smaller as you can see.
The first pic, was taken on set of Sirens here in Vegas, that set up had the EVF extruding a bit so to look out I moved my head away as the pic was shot :-).
The only thing that interests me about RED is the 617 chip. The whole video thing is as interesting to me ( as a hobby) as knitting football scarves would be. If their still capability remains what it is - you would be better off with a $500 point and shoot.
As for the looks department - I think they are very very very funny - and all the RED 'lingo' is just a tad fan boy boring- I think I am now officially middle aged because the whole RED site and hoo haa - is so over hyped..and trendoid
I hope they keep on working away at their stuff though- because what IS refreshing is their transparent and open direct dealing with end users - this IS interesting and appealing - al;so their upgrade deals are extremely fair and reasonable - as they should be - because after all - every buyer is a beat tester and more like a venture fund investor than anything else.
RED respects their customer base much more than other niche players - thats the 'feeling'' I get from reading teh site occassionally and reading feeedback.
Peter, the capabilities of RED in Still are all but in Paper for now, with few tests shot here and there, so way to early to make any calls, but since I absolutely know of their superiority in Motion, I do hope that their Still image and capabilities of the system will allow me to drop my entire Photography gear groups, and have all in one, which is not impossible to achieve from what I see.
Yes the Reduser forum does have a very happy going and fan like attitude, but it is in large do to what they offer at the price they offered, and mostly as you mentioned, their transparency and upgrade path. the fact that the founder and other members of the actual company post regularly in the forum is also a driven point to the positive attitude.
I don's discuss looks as those are a personal preference to what ones likes or dislikes.
RED is a very young company which first product, the R1 has surely shaken a part of Hollywood, how big or small really does not matter, what it matters is that there is a new player and is a good one, so I keep positive and look forward for more great tools to put to our disposal in creating our images and telling our stories.
This is exactly what I was going to ask as well, because for all their modularity, they don't look like something I would actually like to pick up and hold all day long while shooting! I am only coming at this from the perspective of a photographer though, not a cinematographer. I think they require fundamentally different ergonomics (one has to be totally stable and more or less stationary for the entire duration of a shoot, and the other is constantly being brought up and down from the body up to the eye and back). I am just not convinced that they could compete with a tool designed specifically for the task -- a lot of work and ergonomic refinement has gone into photographic cameras, especially the high end Canons and Nikons. From the same perspective, I would not want to shoot a movie with a 5dII...
I am interested to see how RED deals with this, because just looking at the pictures of the silver one that you show, it does not look like something that would be very pleasant to use -- more like a box with a grip rather than something that has been put together with ergonomics in mind.
But holding a RED Epic or RED Scarlet will not fill much different then holding an Hassy or P1 System, when in their basic configuration, their weight and size however will vary from configuration to configuration, few pounds to 6 pounds and over.
I will post Pics of me holding the system in various configurations as to better give an idea of what I'm talking about.
Ketch - if they can make a 617 chip that matches the quality of the current makers in terms of IQ - it is my dream format - I am guessing it is at least 2 years away no matter. If they then are smart enough to allow the right lens manufacturers mounts to be used ..that woudld seal the deal -
Pretty much every landscape shooter would jump on this in a blink.
Sorry if I had offend you by asking this question within this thread. I am not a professional who makes his living from photography, so I have to make the best of what I have on hand. I was given one of these scanner, so I was asking Yair for some advice. Nothing more. I will limit my questions privately.
Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
What's a scanner and how does it help me with my digital camera?
I did a documentary project to examine the future of pro film scanning:
As for scanners,
there is always the option of using one as a digital camera sensor
Which of these are shipping, and which are almost shipping?
Basically spring/summer for the Production models of RED Epic and RED Scarlet, just remember that this have a specific schedule of priority customers, first those which already own a RED ONE, and then every one else :-)
For more info Carsten you can visit the following links:
RED EPIC: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37011
RED SCARLET: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=38274
Thanks for that, Ketch. I was mainly interested in the sensors, not the cameras, and in fact, I am mainly interested in the 3 large sensors, not the small-to-medium ones, so I guess I have to wait a while longer. I am not personally interested in a video camera which can do stills, but the larger sensors are fascinating as technological objects.
When they were announced, they were some pretty exciting sizes, but meanwhile, the 6x17 is the only size which hasn't already been done by others, so I guess that is the one which I am *really* interested in (and will never be able to afford).
While the 645 sensor is widely available no other MF offers a 65MP resolution while shooting 50 frame per second!!
The 617 will do 30 frame per second at its full resolution of over 200MP, and yes will, be an interesting Sensor to see at work, personally I will see more use from the 645, but will not discard the 617.
Hhhmmm, it's Sunday but nothing on LL about a new medium format camera. Or have I missed something?
Remember I'm just an end user, very happy with the products I got from this company, not a representative and or some one that works for RED, and my opinions are based on facts of knowledge that comes from direct use of their products.
The only thing that allows you to say vaporware is because this company works with a transparency policy and lets every one know what they are up to way before they get to do it, so some like you might think that is vaporware, and its okay, I know it is not, and to me it is all that matters.
Thanks Bill, I will be patient. Now I need to just lay off the caffeine so I can be patient without bouncing off the walls
However, lots of people, myself included, will argue that film is still far superior in look. Small sensor cameras still have way too much DoF, which is apparently why many of the largest titles are still filmed on 35mm or better. It is like comparing old Hasselblad film captures to (high-end) P&S digital.
Yes RED cameras have still a cropped sensor, and only with the new FF RED EPIC/SCARLET we will see a sensor size equal to that of film, and bigger with the 645 and 617 RED EPIC sensors, but I never compare film to digital, as a long time Film shooter, I come to love the film look, and now as in recent years have moved entirely to Digital I come to love IT, but each has a very distinct look.
As far as post with RED R3D files I agree, but only in part, as with every other new system it takes time to master, and the Digital acquisition that is happening with RED R3D files must not be treated like any other Digital file, and has its own workflow, but in time I'm sure more Post houses will follow in and become better and better at it, as RED it self is continuing to update and better their filing system and Post workflow possibilities to get the best off their R3D files.
I agree. Itís almost like finding a solution for something that didnít exist. Yeah itís great that you can use a 35mm lens attached to a medium format back and get movements however in my case if I want wide I use my 35mm on my WRS and use movements or Iíll use the 24mm w/out any.
All in all just ho hum for me.
I already have a bag full of Canon lenses (including the 24mm TS-E II), so if I can get all the 16-bit goodness of a P45+ without having to buy a bunch of new lenses, and go ultra-wide, and have the use of T/S, I am very interested to see and hear more. VERY interested.
It sure it one butt-ugly camera though.
Might be something to consider if you have a bunch of Leica R glass sitting around gathering dust. Will have to see which lenses have the requisite image circle.
Ug! ... ly.
An answer to .... a question I'm not sure has been asked. But maybe that's my lack of imagination. But for that kind of money, all in, I'd rather be with an Alpa.
Well, but you won't get far with your alpa. I won't argue, that an alpa or similiar would be abetter choice when it comes to max. IQ, BUT well a alpa max system with a few lenses goes quickly above 15k. Especially if you want some wides ^^
But yeah, using existing super wide T/S lenses in your bag has some appeal ... IF you have them in your bag already
I was always intrigued by the Sinar M camera ... which seems the closest thing to a "do it all" piece of kit I can think of ... takes Nikon (I assume the T/S also?) ... and Hassey/Zeiss V lenses as well as AF Zeiss lenses, or connects to a Sinar view camera using view camera lenses. EVEN BIGGER $$$$.
Yes I agree, but such wide lenses are not found used that often. The only lens that actual is out there right now is the 23 from Rodenstock, everything else does not cover the P65.
I think once again the problem of the hartblei thing will be the same as their 35 lenses. Great quality, works nice, but the price is just to high.
Doug I know, but how true it is. I have been watching how the publication houses dictate to thew photographers what they will accept, how much they will pay, and what to use. Its all about relationship and the need to control cost.
I envy everyone here as they have moved into the digital world of capture. I'm left in the dark,due to my intense interest in it, but since it doesn't generate any main stable of income for me as I 'm not a pro photographer but work in a commercial digital shop, one could only dream! The only good side to it is the beta testing whenever possible.
edit: I had a long criticism about this cam, and rereading the article I can now understand why it is something different than before. I still can't really see why it is that interesting though. I don't think I can name a single photo I have found interesting that was made on lenses wider than 14 or 15mm....all the interesting bits get lost in the extreme perspective distortion. Anyway, I just don't really "get" this camera as a photographic tool...it seems to me that it is more a technical solution to a problem no one had.
for Leica R lovers, LOTS of value
hell, with my Truewide I have a 40MP R camera limited to 1/125
it preserves the values of my $25k plus (well, not ANYMORE! ) lEICA r mODULAR
well worth it if the image circle works. As it is, my $3k investment in the TW from Kapture group is my main birding camera-otherwise had to go canon slr or stick with DMR (I will use that on the small Modular gear
So I get two systems and lots of flexibility
I dont know if this question has been answered before but whats the best Lomo camera for a Lomo newbie such as myself to try?
Next, where to buy it in Manila or in HK?
Thanks and Happy New Year