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A Wealth Of Riches: Can't Have Them All : -(

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
- We could not focus the lens from the computer, much less move focus in regular intervals. As I do stepped focus series for later convolution, this is important to me.
Phase will be adding the functionality of putting the body mirror up to the DF body when used with the 40/65 Live View. However, it does not do so today. That would mean you would not need a cable release, or to switch the mode of the body (and you could select aperture/shutter-speed from C1). They also are experimenting around with adding focus racking within C1; no firmness on this though - it's under development.

If it's important to you to have focus racking from the software today than the Hassy is a better solution for you.

Why do you need the stepped focus from the software and why can you not manually rack the focus? Could you move the subject instead? See my extreme macro work done with a Phase One system, made possible because I could trigger the back without any mechanical movement (not even a shutter). (note I am not saying that solution would work for you since I have no idea what you're shooting - just asking out of curiosity - it does sound like the Hassy integrated focus and shooting system would work better for you, at least until/unless Phase adds these features to the DF body.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Marc:

FWIW, my P65+ arrived this morning and I gave it the quick run through. Part of that was shooting a few frames with the old legacy glass. I can confirm for you that those lenses hold their character across the 6 micron sensor, so no worries there. Not only that, they hold it across the binned (12 micron) sensor too.

A note on binning -- VERY cool feature! 3200 binned is a bit noisy, but certainly usable -- probably a little better than the 1Ds3 at 3200. 400 bin is perfectly clean.

Other nice thing is how fast the back is, plus notably less shutter lag than the P45+ back -- I suspect due to the Dalsa instead of Kodak flushing routines.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Just for my curiosity, how could you tell if the lenses are great enough for 6um sensor? Thanks in advance.
I said they held their character -- that's different than saying they are good enough for the sensor.

By holding their character, I mean that the original bokeh and other pleasing aberrations remain visible in the final image.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thanks Ken, i's pretty sweet. If you haven't loaded the latest firmware, my advice is to do it now -- some nice added conveniences :D
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
Marc:

FWIW, my P65+ arrived this morning and I gave it the quick run through.
CONGRATS Jack!!!! :thumbs:

how do you feel about Long Exposure with P65+ ?

if and when you have time.. I would appreciate if you could post few examples.. thanks!! I heard about process (if I'm not mistaken with term) stacking images in PS to make it look like 10, 20,30, etc minutes.. but I couldn't understand how could 30 sec of max exposure images stacked together result in x amount of minutes exposure.. unfortunately there is
not much hope googling in this direction..
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
CONGRATS Jack!!!! :thumbs:

how do you feel about Long Exposure with P65+ ?

if and when you have time.. I would appreciate if you could post few examples.. thanks!! I heard about process (if I'm not mistaken with term) stacking images in PS to make it look like 10, 20,30, etc minutes.. but I couldn't understand how could 30 sec of max exposure images stacked together result in x amount of minutes exposure.. unfortunately there is
not much hope googling in this direction..
P65+ is limited to 60 seconds max at normal working temps, up to 120 seconds at cooler temps before noise builds up to far. This was a hurdle on the P65+ for me as on occasion I do need longer exposures. However, the reality is most of my longest exposures are still under one minute, and the few that go longer longer are usually taken in cooler environments like outdoor pre-dawn where I may get by with 2 minute exposures from the P65+. On the upside, the P65+ has better noise characteristics in general, giving about a stop better ISO performance than the P45+; so for example ISO 400 on the P65+ is about like ISO 200 on the P45+. Bottom line is I am hoping the P65+'s better ISO and noise traits will compensate for the loss, so I'll be sure to shoot some tests so I know for sure, maybe even this evening.

As for the stacking effect emulating long exposures. This is a relatively new concept you will be hearing more about going forward. The basics are you take a series of images of the same subject, only moving the registration of the camera very slightly between each frame. The registration displacement can be vertical, horizontal or rotational depending on the final effect you desire, but the key is very tiny amounts. You then blend a stack of these frames in CS with varying opacity on the layers to tune your desired result. I may post a blog entry with examples as I learn more about it, but for now I only know the basics and have not experimented with it.

Cheers,
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
P65+ is limited to 60 seconds max at normal working temps, up to 120 seconds at cooler temps before noise builds up to far. This was a hurdle on the P65+ for me as on occasion I do need longer exposures. However, the reality is most of my longest exposures are still under one minute, and the few that go longer longer are usually taken in cooler environments like outdoor pre-dawn where I may get by with 2 minute exposures from the P65+. On the upside, the P65+ has better noise characteristics in general, giving about a stop better ISO performance than the P45+; so for example ISO 400 on the P65+ is about like ISO 200 on the P45+. Bottom line is I am hoping the P65+'s better ISO and noise traits will compensate for the loss, so I'll be sure to shoot some tests so I know for sure, maybe even this evening.

As for the stacking effect emulating long exposures. This is a relatively new concept you will be hearing more about going forward. The basics are you take a series of images of the same subject, only moving the registration of the camera very slightly between each frame. The registration displacement can be vertical, horizontal or rotational depending on the final effect you desire, but the key is very tiny amounts. You then blend a stack of these frames in CS with varying opacity on the layers to tune your desired result. I may post a blog entry with examples as I learn more about it, but for now I only know the basics and have not experimented with it.

Cheers,
I played with stacking multiple images while I was shooting deep space. The idea was to take multiple images at around 1 second each ending up with close to 240 images all the while the telescope was tracking the target. Here’s an example of one that took close to 4 minutes and a heck of a lot of images.

Orion Nebula:




So, if this can be done with a telescope shooting deep space I don’t see why you couldn’t do the same with a P65+.

Don
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Don, that is truly SPECTACULAR. Can you tell us more about the equipment? Must have been a pretty big reflector?

This an area of photography I'd like to get back to - I had access to my university observatory in my youth, but in those days we gad to use glass plates! (1960s)

Bill
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Don, that is truly SPECTACULAR. Can you tell us more about the equipment? Must have been a pretty big reflector?

This an area of photography I'd like to get back to - I had access to my university observatory in my youth, but in those days we gad to use glass plates! (1960s)

Bill
Thanks Bill.

If memory serves me this was taken with a Celestron 11” GPS telescope using a Hyperstar CCD camera and Maxim DL software. The telescope was a beast and came in two parts; the telescope itself and the tripod which was heavy as hell. The telescope looked a lot like R2D2 when sitting on the floor apart from the tripod. I used to connect to a small laptop to take the capture and storage. The initial stacking was all done with Maxim then finished in Photoshop.

It was fun in the beginning however I soon found that there wasn’t a great commercial need/use for the images and abandoned it for landscape images. Starizona, located in Tucson but shipped worldwide is a great place to start any research on this type of photography.

Don
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Here are some P65+ noise images. Full size at ISO 400 and binned at ISO 1600. Note that I just used default settings in C1 and nothing else. Could probably improve them a bit if I spent some time, but wanted to show it at base settings.

Note these were taken with my 150/2.8 at f2.8 and it was pretty dark, so the full size ISO 400 shot is 1/13th sec exposure, which is the worst possible shutter speed to use and you can see the effects of shutter bounce in the image. (In a real situation I would have dialed down ISO to avoid the 1/8th to 1/30th range if I wanted optimal detail.) But, since I was specifically testing ISO 400 noise, this is what you get for now. Crops are the same total size to show you the differences in file size. Focus point was the dark seam at the head of the drinking faucet.

Full image for reference:



Regular ISO 400, 1/13th @ f2.8 crop, note the effects of shutter bounce:



Binned ISO 1600, 1/50th at f2.8:



Just for reference, here is the binned 1600 frame run through DFine at auto settings -- a little aggressive for my tastes and I would dial these settings back in real-world:



Bottom line is I wouldn't use ISO 400 on the full sized image unless it was an emergency situation, but nice to know it's not horrible. As for the ISO 1600 shot, frankly it looks pretty good to me for 1600 and I wouldn't hesitate to use it in a situation that required ISO 1600...
 
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