A Wealth Of Riches: Can't Have Them All : -(

[BlasR]

Is that now, or when you were 25? :ROTFL: I know I've shrunk almost an inch too Marc!

Seriously, if you're 6-9 that makes you 2-3/4 taller than I am now. Was 6-7 at my peak, but have shrunk back to 6-61/4

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL: that is funny, so i was 5'8" now I'm getting closser to Guy? 5'5"?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm 5'8" on a good day otherwise 5'7". On a really bad day I am just considered horizontal

 

[Jack]

Jack - I know you said the images were taken when it was "pretty dark"; just how dark was it? How far could you see in front of you without the aid of a flashlight? Okay might be easier just to ask what time it was taken.

Don

Dooode -- you're a photographer... It was exactly 1/13th sec at f2.8, ISO 400 light! :ROTFL:

I could see okay without a flashlight, but you'd have wanted your headlights on when driving. And I had to crank WB up to 9000K to neutral the blue -- so that should give you a better idea.

 

[Jack]

Why do you need the stepped focus from the software and why can you not manually rack the focus? Could you move the subject instead? See my extreme macro work done with a Phase One system, made possible because I could trigger the back without any mechanical movement (not even a shutter). (note I am not saying that solution would work for you since I have no idea what you're shooting - just asking out of curiosity - it does sound like the Hassy integrated focus and shooting system would work better for you, at least until/unless Phase adds these features to the DF body.

Doug,

I was waiting on the OP to respond to this, but he hasn't so I wanted to share some thoughts on the topic as it was a consideration for me...

When shooting product or table-top, you often have your camera situated high above or even directly over the subject pointing downward -- think place setting spreads for a china catalogue. With a 10' cable to your computer the ability to adjust focus from the computer means I don't have to climb up and down the ladder getting focus set just right for the set in question. Obviously gets more problematic when changing sets for differing place settings, or varying stemware for example.

The fact the P65+ did not allow it was a tic in the minus column when I was making my decision, even though I don't shoot product anymore. (However, in this economy, I may want to start up again!) I for one hope the DF body will allow for it and that Phase adds the option in a future firmware revision.

My .02,

 

[Don Libby]

Dooode -- you're a photographer... It was exactly 1/13th sec at f2.8, ISO 400 light! :ROTFL:

I could see okay without a flashlight, but you'd have wanted your headlights on when driving. And I had to crank WB up to 9000K to neutral the blue -- so that should give you a better idea.

Okay I missed that blame it on a blond/senior moment...

 

[Bob]

While Jack was shooting corroded faucets I took my P65+ which arrived earlier the same day for an indoor shoot.

-bob

oh, and it was pretty dark too

 

[Don Libby]

Very nice Bob! I've got to admit I like your sample image much more.

 

[gogopix]

Dooode -- you're a photographer... It was exactly 1/13th sec at f2.8, ISO 400 light! :ROTFL:

I could see okay without a flashlight, but you'd have wanted your headlights on when driving. And I had to crank WB up to 9000K to neutral the blue -- so that should give you a better idea.

Right;

it's about 12-15 Lux or 1 and 1/2 ft-candles

 

[Guy Mancuso]

While Jack was shooting corroded faucets I took my P65+ which arrived earlier the same day for an indoor shoot.

-bob

oh, and it was pretty dark too

Geez Bob sorry you could not find another faucet to shoot , guess this will have to do.

 

[Jack]

Got to love the shadow tonality :thumbs:

 

[PeterA]

Pete:

Excellent call! :thumbs:

I looked closer at the original file and realized it was CA(!), so I reprocessed this time using C1 lens corrections, which I did NOT use in the first round processing. From my Betterlight days, I learned that APO lenses usually aren't -- the BL software allowed you to live-focus at any of the three color channels, and they NEVER all lined up at the same point, even with the best Schneider or Rodenstock APO glass. Obviously the problem gets exacerbated as you go smaller and smaller in pixel pitch, probably why we don't see it in the binned frame. (Edit note: When I uprezzed the original binned ISO1600 file per Shelby's request below, the CA showed. So I reprocessed the binned file with the lens corrections for the uprez version below.) Also, this shot was done at near the closest focusing distance for the 150, so adds to the issue. (By design, true APO only occurs at one focus distance, a and most modern lenses are usually designed to be their best at around 4-6 meters.) Widest aperture doesn't help either...

Anyway, here is the reprocess of that same file. This time is I turned on CA correction and purple fringing reduction in C1, AND dialed up Lum NR a few more points -- the result is far superior IMO:

Here's the original without CA or PF for reference -- clearly more time behind the scenes with the P65+ files and I'll get better at processing them -- my apologies:

Hi Jack - thanks for your explanation - and apologies if I came across as a pixel peeping nerd. Thansk for walking through what was going on...I owe you a beer.

This stuff has become very important to me as I am seriously considering the P65+ and much of its useage will be on tech camera platforms - regarding using normal cameras - i dont need anymore than 30-40 megapixels so I dont really care about 60 megapixels on an SLR rig..

I need now to compare the white shading procedure that C1 employs versus Hasselblad - ironically Sinar's approach is the most elegant and easy to use for architectural and landscape type work - ironic because Sinar Expose software is very primitive compared to C1 and Phocus - but with coour caste and temp fix - Sinar tools are outstanding and easy - maybe I just need to do some learning re Phiocus and c1

Next port of call is Doug @ C1 for a workflow..

Pete

 

[Jack]

Hi Pete:

No problem, was glad to figure it out! Re C1 white frame, it has been updated in 5.0.x to do BOTH color and falloff corrections in one swoop, so theoretically, a CF is no longer needed. Note I have not tested this for myself yet...

Also, you are no doubt aware that Dalsa sensors are superior for lens shifts to Kodak sensors? Joe Holmes has a nice discussion of it here: http://www.josephholmes.com/news-medformatprecision.html

Unfortunately, we still need to do the white frame if we shift, but may not need to with Dalsa in a tilt.

 

[MFnLF]

I shoot Sinar 75LV with Hasselblad V lenses, and none of my Superachromat lenses, and even 100CFi, 180CFi etc. exhibits purple fringing at wide open even in some worst scenarios, could be something wrong with the Mamiya 150mm lens?

 

[fotografz]

I was curious, so I did some available light ... or lack of ... shots with the H3D-39 @ ISO 100 and ISO 800 to compare them side by side. Not bad at all.

I set Phocus to zero NR and zero sharpening ... then used Smart Sharpen in PS (which rocks IMO) and applied a small amount of Nik Define 2 manually and cut the Nik layer by 50% before flattening.

800 is quite usable from this camera depending on application and final file size ... but I've done 17X22s from 800 files with good results.

(BTW, red square indicates the focus point).

 

[Jack]

In my experience, testing ISO noise in good light does not tell the whole story. What I try to find is a even toned zone of mid to darker tones without detail where the noise pattern is clearly visible.

 

[fotografz]

In my experience, testing ISO noise in good light does not tell the whole story. What I try to find is a even toned zone of mid to darker tones without detail where the noise pattern is clearly visible.

Well, this was hardly good light (a couple of incandescent room lights requiring fairly long exposures) ... if figured all the shadow areas would reveal any scary noise.

Hey, here is something I just discovered that you can try when testing the S2 ... I reprocessed some ISO 640 files and this time I shut down the sharpening to zero (the lenses require less), and luminance NR to zero and boosted the color NR a bit ... and it cleaned up the files pretty nicely ... then applied a little Smart Sharpening in PS.

Way better results. :thumbup:

 

[Christopher]

It doesn't matter if it is in good or bad light. You can do very nice ISO tests in full sunlight. The only thing one has to do is not look at crops which are very bright. Just look at darker shadow crops.

 

[Jack]

It doesn't matter if it is in good or bad light. You can do very nice ISO tests in full sunlight. The only thing one has to do is not look at crops which are very bright. Just look at darker shadow crops.

That was my point -- you need to look into an area that is even toned and preferably out of focus. If you look at my ISO 1600 faucet shot above, it's harder to see noise in the in-focus wood grain or brighter in-focus chrome areas for example, but relatively easy to see in the more even-toned or oof areas. That's all...

 

[fotografz]

That was my point -- you need to look into an area that is mid to darker even toned and without texture. If you look at my ISO 1600 faucet shot above, you cannot see any noise in the shiny chrome surfaces, but it is obvious in the smooth-toned darker background.

Oh, I get ya. The crops should be of the shadow and shadow transition areas. Yes I agree, that's where noise is most obvious and annoying.

I still like to see what effect noise has on the transition areas and main subject detail which is where selective NR like Nik Define 2 isn't as easy to apply without affecting that subject detail.

Jack, I'm interested in hearing any subtile differences you notice between the Kodak and Dalsa sensor since I am looking to move in the same direction with the H4D/60 with Dalsa chip.

-Marc

 

[Bob]

Oh, I get ya. The crops should be of the shadow and shadow transition areas. Yes I agree, that's where noise is most obvious and annoying.

I still like to see what effect noise has on the transition areas and main subject detail which is where selective NR like Nik Define 2 isn't as easy to apply without affecting that subject detail.

Jack, I'm interested in hearing any subtile differences you notice between the Kodak and Dalsa sensor since I am looking to move in the same direction with the H4D/60 with Dalsa chip.

-Marc

I can tell you this...
At least in the P65+ vs P45+ implementations, the system noise (lumpy periodic noise) is much reduced in the P65+. It almost looks as good as cmos sensor noise with nice regular random-ish speckles,
Shadows are nice and clean.
This is testable at even base ISO at the lowest levels of illumination. It is all about what those low order bits are doing.
-bob