A Wealth Of Riches: Can't Have Them All : -(

[fotografz]

I can tell you this...
At least in the P65+ vs P45+ implementations, the system noise (lumpy periodic noise) is much reduced in the P65+. It almost looks as good as cmos sensor noise with nice regular random-ish speckles,
Shadows are nice and clean.
This is testable at even base ISO at the lowest levels of illumination. It is all about what those low order bits are doing.
-bob

Thanks Bob. Sounds Promising.

I previously worked with a Leaf Aptus 75s that uses a Dalsa sensor, and was always pleased with the noise structure ... very good ISO 800 from that back.

-Marc

 

[Jack]

Dalsa is definitely different, and for the most part better, but the distinctions are subtle IMHO. Bob mentioned the pleasant noise characteristic, this behavior remains even when the file is pushed around significantly.

Color is probably the next biggest area they differ. Dalsa is smoother -- tough to describe it, but it is more film-like and less digital if that makes sense? On color, I find greens to be a bit warmer than off the Kodak, yet blues remain similar and Dalsa skintones are awesome. One would think this is totally profile based, but it seems to be more a response thing. And maybe the skintones seem better because of the smoother color mentioned earlier? It's early with the files for me to be more definitive, and again this is pixel-peeping to the max.

 

[PeterA]

Well Jack I've shot with both types and the only difference I can see (on the rare occasions I could be bothered comparing) aka pixel peeping, is Kodak is warmer out of the box and Dalsa is cooler - and that probably has more to do with the engineers preferences whilst doing their oh so mathematically complicated coding ( joke ) than anything else. One little adjustment on a temp slider and you can match the out of the box look of one or the other.

We are all wishing that the digi thing was more like film - this is the subconcious or conscious psychology behind a lot of our reactions - anyway thats my take on this FWIW.

After a few years mucking around with this hobby and dropping a small wad of cashola for the privilege - I always come back to its about the glass and what you do with it.

Hasselblad should wake up to themselves and make a focal plane body to please eccentric amateurs - its ridiculous that I have had to buy a Mamiya or a Contax to use the Zeiss glass I prefer - I mean totally ridiculous. :deadhorse::deadhorse:

and no I dont like the CF adaptor by hasselblad - it is TOTALLY CLUNKY
:ROTFL::ROTFL:

Here I am scratching my head and thinking - hmm Phase One P65+ - I can use my Zeiss lenses - or upgrade to the hasselblad same sensor - and I have to use a CLUNKY CF adaptor grrrrrr

 

[fotografz]

Well Jack I've shot with both types and the only difference I can see (on the rare occasions I could be bothered comparing) aka pixel peeping, is Kodak is warmer out of the box and Dalsa is cooler - and that probably has more to do with the engineers preferences whilst doing their oh so mathematically complicated coding ( joke ) than anything else. One little adjustment on a temp slider and you can match the out of the box look of one or the other.

We are all wishing that the digi thing was more like film - this is the subconcious or conscious psychology behind a lot of our reactions - anyway thats my take on this FWIW.

After a few years mucking around with this hobby and dropping a small wad of cashola for the privilege - I always come back to its about the glass and what you do with it.

Hasselblad should wake up to themselves and make a focal plane body to please eccentric amateurs - its ridiculous that I have had to buy a Mamiya or a Contax to use the Zeiss glass I prefer - I mean totally ridiculous. :deadhorse::deadhorse:

and no I dont like the CF adaptor by hasselblad - it is TOTALLY CLUNKY
:ROTFL::ROTFL:

Here I am scratching my head and thinking - hmm Phase One P65+ - I can use my Zeiss lenses - or upgrade to the hasselblad same sensor - and I have to use a CLUNKY CF adaptor grrrrrr

I don't even know what "out of the camera" means any more. Digital out of the camera untouched is all green ... I've seen it.

It has everything to do with how you set up any one of the proprietary RAW processors with preferences set and/or profiles selected.

My Hassey/Flexcolor (and eventually Phocus) was set up to be "product" neutral by my dealer when he delivered my camera so I could shoot consistently in studio with Profoto strobes where the camera is used most. This dealer is pretty knowledgeable because he is a working digital tech for studios. My then Leaf dealer couldn't find his bum with both hands when it came to digital capture, so I had to set up my Dalsa sensor Aptus 75s myself for the same neutral base. It was actually a bit warmer going in at default Leaf Capture settings.

Yep Peter, the CF adapter is a bit "clunky" ... the penalty for adding mechanical lenses to an electronic non-focal plane camera which requires some sort of cocking mechanism.

However, none of the other solutions provide stop down metering and shooting ... which IMO was a much bigger PITA and crappy work flow when shooting when I used V lenses on my Contax or my Mamiya 645 ... and I absolutely hated the Mamiya AFD-II when using those V lenses ... the shutter lag drove me bananas ... (something that is supposedly much better now with the latest Mamiya body) ... but that viewfinder was so dim in low light I couldn't focus the 110/2 FE to save my life. And stopping down with a dumb adapter? Forget about it.

The counter point is that with the Contax and Mamiya, you can shoot the delicious F and FE lenses which is not possible with the H camera ... so the desire for a Focal Plane H is one I share with you.

LISTEN UP HASSELBLAD! YOU CAN BLUNT THE NOTION OF PEOPLE JUMPING SHIP TO PHASE ONE, LEICA S2 AND EVEN HIGH END 35MM DSLRS BY JUST OFFERING A FOCAL PLANE BODY FOR USE WITH V LENSES AND HC LENSES WITH 1/4000TH SHUTTER ... HOW HARD CAN IT BE?

I'd pay 8K in a NY heartbeat for such a body ... which is a lot cheaper than two systems or swapping systems midstream. Besides the back, the lens investment is where all the money is. The issue would be how to retro fit existing "integrated" systems backs to a new body. So it would probably either have to be a back and body, which runs into some serious coin, or you would have to send the back in for the camera to be calibrated to it ... which I understand can be done with a second back-up H body now.

-Marc