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The Changing MF Landscape: What's a Mother to do?

fotografz

Well-known member
This is good. Relating the links between the tool, the process, and what we do with it is heart of the matter.

My personal take on it can be summed up with a simple observation ... when I pick up any photographic tool my first thought is "I wonder what can be done with this." That question is mitigated by previous work that shows what can be done ... so the question goes a step further ... "What can I do with this?"

This leads to thinking about "purpose." As Peter has alluded to, sometimes "the process is the purpose." Just doing it is the reason to do it. I think most of us can agree on that aspect to some degree or another, and it defines our "personal journey."

However, if just the process was the overriding driver, one would not need much to achieve that goal. Like an artist with a small sketch pad and pencil. No "David" or "Mona Lisa" would ever have come to light then.

So, the question is ... what role does the end result play? Of course that is quite personal. It can vary so widely that it's almost impossible to define. But without end purpose, does the journey have any meaning? How do you gauge the tool and your use of it?

My favorite quote on this subject came from Picasso ... "A painting kept in the closet, might as well be kept in the head."


Now what does all that have to do with the subject at hand?

Some of us have a built in purpose in one way or another. People like Guy, and to a lesser degree me, have an end result we know going in. I took up the unlikely role of "Wedding Photographer" for just that reason ... it gave my photographic journey some structure and purpose rather than "inventing" one. Now if I allowed the practicality of the end result to dictate the tools and my use of it, a couple of Digital Rebels and zooms would suffice ... which is exactly what many Wedding shooters limit themselves to. If you have talent and vision the clients will be quite happy with results from this. The question then becomes "will you be happy?" If you "settle" for that, then maybe. If you think there is "more lurking there," then maybe not. I reside firmly in the camp of "I know there's more" and I want to find it. It's what drives me.

Also, much has been laid at the doorstep of "practicality." "MF is so expensive," "My pocketbook defines my limits," My clients don't need it," and so on. So a whole sector of photographic experience becomes off-limits for exploration. Like "David" being carved out of Sandstone because it's more practical than Marble.

Again, to draw from my art experience ... I know painters struggling in anonymity who make sacrifices to work with certain tools (I was one of them.) Anyone who paints knows that certain rare earth pigments can cost as much as a Canon L lens. Yet the color is like no other. Practically speaking there are lesser substitutes that would suffice, but these painters still shun them refusing to "settle."

Frankly, I personally think "practicality" and it's evil twin "impatience" has led to, or is leading to, the "dumbing down of beauty."
 

jonoslack

Active member
What a good thread.
Peter's interesting remark about the journey being as important as the result is something I'm perpetually trying to fight against.

My journey to photography came through painting (which I no longer had time for with a new business and young children). I mistakenly thought that photography would take up less time.

I don't like to think of myself as a 'hobbyist'; I do enough paid work to convince the tax man that photography is truly part of the business. Truth be told though, unlike Guy and Jack and many others here, I can do what I like with my photography, I don't need it pay the bills.

I actually feel very schizophrenic about cameras: The 'gearhead' part of me loves to learn new kit, to pixel peep, and to try and get the very best quality out of the very best equipment (I think this is why many of us are here). On the other hand, the 'artist' in me finds all this stuff very frustrating; I feel I should be concentrating on the image rather than the process, and in that context Kit's D3 message resonated very strongly. Changing gear simply gets in between me and my intentions.

In this light the prospect of moving to MF for some of my work provokes a dual response - excitement in the 'gearhead' me, and irritation in the 'artist' me.

Simplistically, it's obvious; the 'art' is the ONLY thing which is important . . . but then the skills which have evolved in the 'gearhead' have certainly improved the scope and success of the 'artist'.
 

jonoslack

Active member
there are a lot of us quite pleased with the contax 645 system, for mamny years. There is good float of products, parts for over 10 years, and many lenses to be used (I use Hassey, Contax and even some visoflex lenses! ALL focus confirm and AE, if you set it correctly
Also, all back makers support the mount as well as alpa, Cambio etc.

Good stuff lasts.

victor
HI Victor
I would really prefer to go with Contax, however with the deal available with the Mamiya in the UK, the Camera / lens / back kit is almost actually the same price as the ZD back on it's own!
You can get secondhand Contax 645 gear for reasonable prices, but not free!
 

fotografz

Well-known member
There is no doubt that you can make art from anything. I know a photographer that uses a P&S to do national ads for big name clients. It's a deliberate choice, and he doesn't limit himself by "gear prejudice." However, his gear closet is a wet dream come true ... with some of the most exotic stuff I've ever encountered.

Basically, that's all I'm saying ... lack of prejudice cuts both ways.
 

gogopix

Subscriber
HI Victor
I would really prefer to go with Contax, however with the deal available with the Mamiya in the UK, the Camera / lens / back kit is almost actually the same price as the ZD back on it's own!
You can get secondhand Contax 645 gear for reasonable prices, but not free!
But as my pappy used to say 'a bargain is only a bargain if it is what nyou want!"

Two approach; buy what is affordable at the time, or make what you want affordable!
I am in the latter camp and have a bit of
angst' at times but not disappointmet.

All is trade-off

best regards (and BTW we are talking about ALL great stuff!!)

Victor
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
If I ever write an autobiography, it will be titled, "Confessions of a Gear Whore."

I am probably not too dissimilar from Peter A in philosophy, however I appreciate Kit's point fully from personal experience. At the end of the day, looking back over most of my best images, I find the gear that forced me to present to the image creation process generated the best images from an aesthetic standpoint; I can't just press a button while pondering whatever while the camera does all the thinking, but rather need to be present in the moment with me doing the thinking about the image I'm trying to make. Howeverbut, my best images from a technical standpoint have always been made with the best gear. Admittedly -- and regrettably -- only rarely have I had aesthetic and technical excellence meet in the same image...

Lastly, I will add there is a Zen-like freedom to having only one camera bag in the cabinet. If you are going out to shoot, there is no time wasted at that cabinet trying to decide which system or systems to take, just grab THE bag and go. If you've ever hauled five separate bags to a shoot, you know what I mean...

There is no right or wrong answer on how much gear to have... You can't shoot every possible photographic situation with one camera system, but conversely, if you only do one type of photography, you can easily get by with only one system. Horse for courses :)

PS: Notice I avoided "wants" versus "needs" :D

Cheers,
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Glad you avoided the wants versus needs. We have to remind each other of that everyday from confessions from the Gear Slut
 

helenhill

Senior Member
If I ever write an autobiography, it will be titled, "Confessions of a Gear Whore.
PS: Notice I avoided "wants" versus "needs" :D
Cheers,
JACK
Loved your whole LONG train of thought
& I might be a tad off course
but I loved what Gandhi said about 'needs'
"Satisfy Everymans Needs Not Everymans Greed"
:clap:helen
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I cannot tell an extentialist lie ... one camera bores me to tears. One camera and one lens is the absolute epitome of being bored to tears. Nice Zen like thought at first. Gets old fast. Then from old ... to ... well ... boring.

Not in the "doing" mind you, I sometimes just carry a M8 and 35mm. Rather it's just the thought of it as I contemplate my trek that day. Maybe this, or maybe that ... it's like a Sumi painter grinding the ink prior to actually doing something with it.

Frankly, I like my gear closet ... it's full of "what ifs." The "what if" could be ... what if you just took one camera and one lens? But it doesn't have to be. I'm not forced into it by some preconceived limitation.

Similarly, little ol' exentialist me finds one format excruciatingly depressing. I like to row against the tide ... it makes me stronger. That predilection has served me well in a lifetime of creative endeavors. It blurs the lines that separate things into convenient little cubicles. This for that, and that for this ... sorry, boring!

I'm coming to realize that I hate "horses for courses." It's like a kids' merry-go-round that only has horses on it. I want to ride the Tiger and then the Elephant and then the Bear ... LOL.

But that's just me.
 

nostatic

New member
there is a "how many cameras is enough?" thread in the small sensor forum that I started. This forum has been eye-opening as I drop down a slippery slope. I'll admit to being a gear head over the years in my various hobbies and jobs (these days digital media and education/training, broadly construed so that means anything digital ;) ). In music it is called GAS - gear acquisition syndrome. Once I got deeper into photo I discovered LBA (lens buying addiction). Thankfully I have gotten to a point in my life after chasing various technologies and art forms where I *know* that the nut behind the wheel is the biggest variable and contributor. Of course that doesn't prevent me from slathering over a shiny object.

Like Jono I'm lucky in that I don't have to create images for my supper, although I am getting traction in a couple of places these days. In a thread on the M8 board (this place is a bad influence) there was the "see what you shoot or shoot what you see" question, which I think aligns with the gear questions. I understand Jack's desire of having only one tool staring at you saying, "can we go out and play?" Sometimes choice can cause paralysis. But I also find that some days I want to mix it up. Since I'm shooting for "art" and not a client, I have that freedom. Plus I don't know what I'm doing so I need to experiment.

What I appreciate about this community (getdpi, not all photographers) is that people seem to understand that different people have different processes and needs...so there is no "best." And what is great is that said people will share not only how they do something and what they use, but often *why* they use it. To me the "why" question is key. I"m interested in the motivation and the process...even if it is just serendipity.

Some of my favorite shots I got with an old p&s. But my best shots haven't been taken yet. Just a question of what tool I'll have with me when I "see" them. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go to the camera shop to play with an M8. And maybe a ZD. Oh, and I wonder if the 35mm ltd macro lens came in for my K20d body yet...
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I'm coming to realize that I hate "horses for courses." It's like a kids' merry-go-round that only has horses on it. I want to ride the Tiger and then the Elephant and then the Bear ... LOL.

But that's just me.
And now I understand why you use your Hassy digital for street shooting, M8 for runway fashion and D-Lux 3 for billboard ads... But I now also understand why you are a far better photographic artist than I am -- you are not constrained by borders. My hat off to you...


:thumbs:,
 

David K

Workshop Member
Great thread... interesting thoughts expressed here. Not only is this forum a great source of knowledge for all things photography related but it's therapeutic too. When I buy something that I really, really don't need instead of feeling bad I can come here and say "at least Guy is worse" :) I'm going to take the money I'm saving on a shrink and put it where it really belongs... on the front of my camera.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Great thread... interesting thoughts expressed here. Not only is this forum a great source of knowledge for all things photography related but it's therapeutic too. When I buy something that I really, really don't need instead of feeling bad I can come here and say "at least Guy is worse" :) I'm going to take the money I'm saving on a shrink and put it where it really belongs... on the front of my camera.
:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
You're right!
trouble is I hadn't saved any money for the shrink (does that mean I can't buy a new camera?).
I've yet to see anyone around here say 'mine's better than yours'
it's splendid:grin:
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
This IS a great thread and gets one thinking in some good directions.

I would like to add one other bit that isn't necessarily relevant on an artistic evolutionary track, but is true for me and I'm not ashamed to admit it. And that would be that there is a certain "pride of ownership".

In my teens I took great pleasure in wading into a stream loaded full of fly fishing "sports" who were decked out in thousands of dollars worth of gear and then proceeding to catch fish at their feet with my $30 Sears rod while wearing my black converse high tops. Now, I'm the old fart with all the gear. Through a succession of miracles and a little hard work, I can afford it so why the hell not have it?

Is it true that wonderful photos can be taken with cameras costing less than a Leica battery? Yes. Is it also true that many others can afford more and even better gear than I? Yep. Nevertheless, I get a great feeling of satisfaction from the thing itself. The feel of a well made camera and the joy that a finely crafted lens can bring.

So for me, small sensor, full-frame, medium format, large format, heck even 20x24 Polaroid--they're all fine. I find myself excited, surprised, and grateful to be here and able to contemplate using any or all of them.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
What I appreciate about this community (getdpi, not all photographers) is that people seem to understand that different people have different processes and needs...so there is no "best." And what is great is that said people will share not only how they do something and what they use, but often *why* they use it. To me the "why" question is key. I"m interested in the motivation and the process...even if it is just serendipity.


About the best comment I heard of this forum and thanks that is exactly why we are here to explore, to learn ,to understand what each one of us feels and wants to do with there photography there is no best there is no one way there is only your ability to be creative and have fun. When i get laid in the box , i just want one person to say he lived his dream and did it the way he wanted too. Nothing else matters.

This was always a desire for me on any forum is answering the question WHY. People learn by understanding what others do, that is a rare day when you actually see it on a forum. Even though this is Jack and Guy's place it is the main reason i love it because we talk WHY. Let's never lose sight of that my friends.
 

LJL

New member
Have to jump back into this discussion....very engaging and offering so many insights and ideas. I have been wrestling with all sorts of tugs lately, and Marc has hit upon some of them. While I know that I have done very well in the past with minimalist gear at times, just as Tim pointed out, there is some drive to look beyond just the gear toward some sort of result. If that result is for the sake of art alone, and I am getting to the point where I find this so much more satisfying, then all bets are off about what you choose/use to get there. If the result is more about pleasing a client and securing more business, then different interpretations fuel different drives.....getting best image quality, being more creative, opening artistic channels through non-conventional means, using conventional ways to achieve outstanding new things, etc., etc.

My struggle is sometimes trying to figure out which master to serve when, and how. My "artist" master loves simplicity. My "gear head" master loves options and what they can help me do. My "business" master drives to the bottom line for costs, returns, blah, blah, blah. In reality, they are all part of the total package. The objective I have started to set is somewhat in line with what Kit was saying....finding a balance of these masters, at the same time just using them to keep me feeling balanced.

Several folks have commented on how their "best" shots have different meanings and may have been taken with gear different than what they may have wanted or planned, or may have been "best" because they used a tool that could deliver what they needed and wanted better than anything else. Sometimes I want my gear to get out of my way. Other times I want to use my gear to find a way. What I have learned is that having more or less gear is not the problem, for the most part, but having gear that you know, feel comfortable with, and allows you to translate your vision into whatever result you desire is what counts. I had a portrait shoot last week at a client's home. I brought most of my "studio" along, not knowing what I would need to use, but being prepared. My plan was to shoot with a 1DsMkII and whatever lens best fit things (24-70, 85, 70-200, etc.). I got to the location to find floor to ceiling windows with perfect north light coming in. Never took out a flash or stand. Did not bother with a backdrop. Wound up taking shots that the client loved with my M8 and the Noctilux or 35. That was all that was needed to produce the result. I could not have planned that. I planned as best I could and dragged a ton of crap with me. The serenity for me was having the capability and preparedness to use, but also having the option to shoot how I felt at that moment.

I think I really wanted to shoot that with a MF set-up, and if I had it I would have, but I am not sure it would have been any better than what I got, unless the client planned to have really huge prints made or something. I did shoot with the 1DsMkII, and did get some great shots with it also, to the point that I had trouble telling some shots apart. This was a shoot where simplicity and art came together for me, and I loved it. It also showed me that less could be more, but more could be really good too.

My point, if I have one after reading all of this great stuff and thinking even more, is to allow myself as much creative freedom for shooting as I possibly can. That may mean more or less gear at any given time, and not being "locked into" one thing or another. I have tried the minimalist approach, and made it work. I have done the too much gear approach and made it work, so maybe there was not "too much" gear after all. Earlier I had commented that I was trying to settle onto MF, and using my M8 for personal/artistic things. My thoughts were to ditch most if not all of the Canon DSLR gear I have now to concentrate my efforts and resources. I have amended some of that thinking to embrace using what I have and adding what I think will permit development of those other creative processes for results...for me and the client. That means keeping some DSLR gear for its use, keeping the M8 for all its uses, and adding MF at some point soon to open new horizons and channels there. This is not about being a gear head or whore for me, but about pursuing what I am thinking about and using whatever gear will best help there. MF provides its own level of stunning capabilities and imaging. Damn the costs and number of gear closets or bags.....use the tools that allow you to express whatever is driving your artistic directions. If it is a business constraint/need, as it is for me, find a way to translate things. Chase the art, not the accountant ;-)

LJ
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I think the key word in all of this is simply balance. Finding what works as a business , as artist , as hobbyist, as Pro and the costs and restrictions that you place on weight and bulk, style and look and what you want to get out of all of this . It really is a game of balance to me. Do i really want a Nikon system, not really but there is certain things i can and can't do without it so you balance that in your choices. Can i work a MF system in , sure i can and get great results and make clients even happier and me. Could I do without a M8, NO but reality is yes i can but I love it so i work it in. See i feel so many emotions on different levels with gear for them( Clients) and for me. I want to make them happy and as Marc said hell a Rebel may do that but really what the heck am i busting my butt for besides money. And that is to make myself happy, I am not going to have a camera like a D300 knowing i can get better results with a D3 , i will just get them both. The M8 is a classic example of damn the torpedoes i don't care what it costs i want those bloody lenses to work with. I really think it is a balance issue between making art and what you want or need to do that.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
You're right!
trouble is I hadn't saved any money for the shrink (does that mean I can't buy a new camera?).
I've yet to see anyone around here say 'mine's better than yours'
it's splendid:grin:

Jono,

Helmuth Newton once said his photography was his psychotherapy. So, you can spend that money on a camera. You don't need a shrink.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono,

Helmuth Newton once said his photography was his psychotherapy. So, you can spend that money on a camera. You don't need a shrink.
Did he indeed - unfortunately I haven't saved any for psychotherapy either, and I guess the money Helmut Newton saved isn't available to me!

Still, when I mentioned the possibility of getting hold of a Medium format setup to my wife last night she said:
"Of course - go ahead - I've known for years that you'd do that in the end"

Mind you, she wants a new horse box and life is full of little compromises
:LOL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jono as the saying goes: You have to pay to play and being married that is in the top 5 of the rules. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 
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