The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Well, it's official....

Don Libby

Well-known member
Yea you can return the Brinks truck now as well. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Okay we’re off to the snowy and very cold So Rim for the next week – got a camera I could borrow?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Sorry Peter like fine wine we have to let it age. I would not take your name off a list though. It's a fine cam but it needs to age also. Seriously though we just finished shooting it yesterday and we are actually writing the review already just no one can see it except the mods. I shot it mostly and it does have a nice feel to it and the image quality is there but like anything else there are some niggles as well. Now i know buying a P40+ back in the middle of a review looks a little strange but It was something I was going to do anyway and had no bearing on the S2. I needed it this year and I can't jump in on only 2 lenses in the system, so something for me to look at next year and see what comes up. I will admit I did have a conversation with myself while testing the S2, It is a fine cam and IQ is very good.
 

markowich

New member
Still working on it
Sorry Peter like fine wine we have to let it age. I would not take your name off a list though. It's a fine cam but it needs to age also. Seriously though we just finished shooting it yesterday and we are actually writing the review already just no one can see it except the mods. I shot it mostly and it does have a nice feel to it and the image quality is there but like anything else there are some niggles as well. Now i know buying a P40+ back in the middle of a review looks a little strange but It was something I was going to do anyway and had no bearing on the S2. I needed it this year and I can't jump in on only 2 lenses in the system, so something for me to look at next year and see what comes up. I will admit I did have a conversation with myself while testing the S2, It is a fine cam and IQ is very good.
well, am not in a hurry either. my P65+ does a great job...thanks p
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Your P65 rocks the house bud. Jack had his here during the test and it is one sweet back. I'm just looking at the noise test with my P40+ and blown away at sensor plus. ISO 1600 is killer and even my 800 full Res is amazingly good.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay here is Sensor Plus on the P40 which is identical to the P65 only a smaller file of course. ISO 1600 with C1 defaults. Shot under tungsten with a little daylight coming in. Frankly this right here threw any Canon , Nikon idea's of purchase right out the window. I simply do NOT need a DSLR if I can do this. This completely solves my problems that i have had with MF and with the smaller files to boot which i want for extremely fast processing for event work.
 

markowich

New member
Okay here is Sensor Plus on the P40 which is identical to the P65 only a smaller file of course. ISO 1600 with C1 defaults. Shot under tungsten with a little daylight coming in. Frankly this right here threw any Canon , Nikon idea's of purchase right out the window. I simply do NOT need a DSLR if I can do this. This completely solves my problems that i have had with MF and with the smaller files to boot which i want for extremely fast processing for event work.
guy, how is iso 800-1250 on the S2 compared to P40 with pinning?
peter
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
guy, how is iso 800-1250 on the S2 compared to P40 with pinning?
peter
You'll see it in our review AND get the raws to play around with for yourself, but the initial answer is this:

1) the S2 is better at ISO 640 than the P40+ (P65+) is at ISO 800 full-frame;

2) the S2 at 1250 is worse than the P40+ (P65+) at ISO 800 full-frame;

3) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 800 is better than the S2 at 640 and maybe equal to the S2 at 320;

4) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 1600 is still a bit better than the S2 even at 640.

5) the P40+ or P65+ at 3200 binned and the S2 at 1250 are pretty comparable.

HOWEVER, I have not experimented with downsampling the S2 files yet to compare them to the binned Phase files, and that will undoubtedly level the playing field somewhat...
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Not close . Binning is really good even my 800 binned is much better than my regular 800. I need to look at it more but I only looked in C1 . LR might be a different story. ISO 640 on the S2 looks okay but in LR it maybe even better . Issue is none of the programs are ready for the S2 so right now hard to guess how it will be with a better C1 profile and LR out of beta. I also need to process all this stuff out and than try also in LR. But we will have ALL the Raws for you on noise to check it out for sure.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Jack and I posted same time but both answers are about right. Okay off to a paying shoot with the P40 . But you will get the raws for sure and you can see what we mean. Both camera's in reality are nothing to sneeze at.
 

markowich

New member
You'll see it in our review AND get the raws to play around with for yourself, but the initial answer is this:

1) the S2 is better at ISO 640 than the P40+ (P65+) is at ISO 800 full-frame;

2) the S2 at 1250 is worse than the P40+ (P65+) at ISO 800 full-frame;

3) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 800 is better than the S2 at 640 and maybe equal to the S2 at 320;

4) the P40+ or P65+ binned at 1600 is still a bit better than the S2 even at 640.

5) the P40+ or P65+ at 3200 binned and the S2 at 1250 are pretty comparable.

HOWEVER, I have not experimented with downsampling the S2 files yet to compare them to the binned Phase files, and that will undoubtedly level the playing field somewhat...
jack&guy,
thank you for your excellent work and forthcoming attitude.
peter
 

markowich

New member
jack&guy,
thank you for your excellent work and forthcoming attitude.
peter
your results confirm that leica made a serious mistake not to allow for pixel pinning in the S2. i hope that hasselblad is not goung to do likewise in the H4.
peter
 

David K

Workshop Member
Curious whether using the binning feature results in a loss elsewhere, i.e. is there a tradeoff other than file size.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
David besides the smaller file obviously I am not picking anything up visually to say it lost something in other area's . DR and tonal range appear to be the same which is the area I thought the loss would be. The neat factor here is you get all the nice look of MF in a smaller package but nice noise improvement in the high ISO's. Maybe Doug can give us some more details on Sensor Plus that may shed more light on it.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Curious whether using the binning feature results in a loss elsewhere, i.e. is there a tradeoff other than file size.
On the contrary, activating the binning gains two stops of native ISO response and a slightly higher per-pixel sharpness. So you drop resolution (rather dramatically), but gain in just about every other category.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
On the contrary, activating the binning gains two stops of native ISO response and a slightly higher per-pixel sharpness. So you drop resolution (rather dramatically), but gain in just about every other category.
Agreed. With my P65+ binned at ISO 1600, I feel I am getting a better-detailed file than my 1Ds3 delivers at ISO 800. I am guessing that is a result of the 1Ds3's AA filter killing some detail, but then it may also have something to do with the added tonal range of the P back...
 

tjv

Active member
Although I think pinning is an interesting solution to some MFD problems, I'm also interested to see how it compares to simply downsampling with an equiv. file of the same scene without pinning. Pinning seems a great option to have in a pinch but I guess I would never make use of the feature as my shooting is 99% between 100-200ISO, and occasionally at 400ISO. I'd rather have the full res file and spend the time massaging it to make use of the full pixel count if that makes any sense?

Looking forward to the full review. It seems reading between the lines above that you guys genuinely like the S2 but for a few faults and that reassures me the system could have a good future providing enough people get on board.
 
Top