Contax 645 + Phase One P45+ still viable mf system?

[kuau]

Guy your the man... I wish I could go on the next workshop but I am getting married March 6th in Telluride, Co.

What is your take on pixel size of the P25+ vs P45+ how does it translate into the actual prints I will do at 20x30? Do I really need 39mp or will 22mp do the trick?

Steven

 

[routlaw]

So now I am back to MF SLR either Contax 645, Hasselblad h1/h2 with either a P25+ back or the new leaf aptus II 5 back, or I see the prices keep dropping in the H3d -II 39
any opinions on the H3DII 39 and then I guess I would eventually get the HTS 1.5 t/s adaptor

oh yeah last option keep with what I got

Steven

Steven nothing wrong with what you got as long as you can be satisfied with less quality than the 22 mp backs. But more importantly, are you aware the HTS 1.5 has a focal length multiplier effect which I believe is 1.5, meaning a 50 mm lens becomes a 75 and so on. Achieving true wide angle with this device might be impossible... unless you stitch frames. And it cost more than most tech cameras.

Hope this helps.

Rob

 

[kuau]

Rob
This whole quality issue to me seems like 22mp looks way better to me then my D3x and the shooting style using MF is almost the same as shooting my D3x accept no Live View.

I was thinking about the 28m HC lens, without any tilt or shift, only use tilt/shift for longer focal length. I would shoot the 28mm like I shoot my nikon 14-24 just tilt it down.

Steven

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy your the man... I wish I could go on the next workshop but I am getting married March 6th in Telluride, Co.

What is your take on pixel size of the P25+ vs P45+ how does it translate into the actual prints I will do at 20x30? Do I really need 39mp or will 22mp do the trick?

Steven

The 25 is damn good but at 20x30 between the two you will see some detail advantage but not earth shattering. The P45 has a little more DR as well but something to be said with 9 micron sensors. It's also a money issue, almost double.

 

[thomas]

The 25 is damn good but at 20x30 between the two you will see some detail advantage but not earth shattering.

at this print size the difference between 22MP MFD and the D3x is much bigger than the difference between 39MP MFD and 22MP MFD.

 

[kuau]

Thomas and Guy thanks for your input. I put an email into Hasselblad to see what the story is with the 28mm HC lens.

Steven

 

[fotografz]

Just for clarification:

The Hasselblad H2F will not take a Phase One back. It will take any Hasselblad CF or CF-II or CF/CF-II Multishot digital back ... and the HTS can be used on the H2F as well as the 28 HCD and 35-90 HCD Digital Lenses. The H2F also accepts H film backs.

A H1 or H2 camera with a Phase One, Leaf, or Sinar back will not provide use of the 28 HCD, 35-90 HCD nor the HTS with all of the digital corrections built into the Phocus software.

These lenses and T/S device require integrated communications between the camera, back and lens ... which are available from the H2F, H3D on up ... and maybe (not sure) a H2D with current firmware updates (H2D means it is an integrated Hasselblad back and can't use any other digital back).

H1, H2, H2Ds and H3Ds can take film backs, H3D-IIs and H4Ds cannot.

There are more differences between a H2 with a 22 meg back than just meg count. H3D-II/39 cameras use different electronics, cooling, an improved sensor filter and more integrated ergonomic functionality, a much larger and clearer LCD ... and take more advantage of the software functions ... and the 28 HCD, 35-90 HCD and HTS can be fully used on the H3D/H3D-II cameras. The differences when fully realized with DAC corrections in Phocus are quite apparent.

All this info is available on the Hasselblad web site under products ... spec sheet PDFs including some discontinued products.

-Marc

 

[gogopix]

at this print size the difference between 22MP MFD and the D3x is much bigger than the difference between 39MP MFD and 22MP MFD.

Yes, but I actually found going from 25 (22MP) to 45(39MP) brought me a LOT more than the Kodak (16MP) to 25 (22MP).

Althought hasselblad is certain a great system, as are all, I wonder why the over interest in the 28? In circumstances where I needed more view, stitch brings so much more flexibility.

Thus, a Phase (or Leaf or Sinar) back and a Contax or Phamyia body would seem to allow much more flexibility. In fact I would concentrate on

back Resolution
GLASS
and then body.

Both Contax and PM with get you AF, and both take all the Hasselblad V glass. The 45+ or 40+ is where you may find the sweet spot for resolution, and then with Contax or Phase you will have more options.

I hate to say it, but at current prices (an 45mm Contax under $500!) the C645 is almost a 'disposable system' from your point of view. On the other hand, with a Phase body you have the promise of Schneider Kreutznach glass on the horizon (and here!)

If you want to migrate or extend to view camera, the C and PM are much easier.

BTW, have you had a chance to TRY any of this stuff? Tools are very personal things as you will hear many of the folk here say.

In any case, you will have (even with HB) a terrific step up from 35mm DSLR and then you can concentrate on image making.

Regards
Victor

 

[thomas]

In "kuau's" case price wise (in relation to the quality) a Contax is a no brainer actually (eihter way with Phase, Leaf or Sinar back).
But if movements on a 645 camera are an issue... the HTS is the only way to go.
As all the systems deliver incredible quality the HTS might be the decisice accessory...

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Steve got to shoot a bunch of the Phase backs on the AZ workshop with tech and Phase body. So he has used them quite effectively actually and got some really nice shots to boot. It really is a tough decision , none of these backs suck. They all produce great images regardless of camera, glass or back. Just need to find the right combination that feels good. I know Steve liked the Tech cams , so immediately even if you don't go straight there to start keep whatever purchase you make available down the road to work on them.

 

[kuau]

Guy, Thomas,Victor and Marc, I know they will all produce excellent results.
It all comes down to $$$$$
I am for sure going to buy used as the prices are dropping quickly.
I guess I just have to decide how important T/S is to me and looks like Hassy has the only solution as of today without going tech camera.
or am I missing something.

Steven

 

[T.Karma]

Guy, Thomas,Victor and Marc, I know they will all produce excellent results.
It all comes down to $$$$$
I am for sure going to buy used as the prices are dropping quickly.
I guess I just have to decide how important T/S is to me and looks like Hassy has the only solution as of today without going tech camera.
or am I missing something.

Steven

No, you are not missing something and I would call even the Hassy as an expensive compromise.

 

[gogopix]

Well, depending on your demands, the Hartblei 45mm is quite good (my copy anyway, and I can send some example) and the only other option, which isnt so crazy is from Zoerk

http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_pshift.htm

They make one for Manyia (phase) and Contax mounts. If I needed T/S that's what I would do

and BTW, you said the 45mm was too wide; that's ok, if you can stand the crop (and the 39MP will get you about 1.3 and the crop fACTOR OF THE P45+ is 1.1, I think so you will have the equivalent of a 70mm or so lens.)

Anything more than "normal" seems of less use T/S (and then, you can use perspective fix in PHotoshop)

Victor

 

[fotografz]

Well, depending on your demands, the Hartblei 45mm is quite good (my copy anyway, and I can send some example) and the only other option, which isnt so crazy is from Zoerk

http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_pshift.htm

They make one for Manyia (phase) and Contax mounts. If I needed T/S that's what I would do

and BTW, you said the 45mm was too wide; that's ok, if you can stand the crop (and the 39MP will get you about 1.3 and the crop fACTOR OF THE P45+ is 1.1, I think so you will have the equivalent of a 70mm or so lens.)

Anything more than "normal" seems of less use T/S (and then, you can use perspective fix in PHotoshop)

Victor

What 39 meg digital back has a 1.3 crop factor, or did I not understand what you were saying?

Perspective fix in Photoshop distorts and smears pixels and degrades IQ ... and it sure won't correct DOF issues like tilt does. T/S is an invaluable tool for both correcting perspective and increasing DOF ... or as a creative tool for selective focus.

I'm using a Rollie Xact for studio work with a digital back ... but I'm talking myself into a HTS because I can use it with the H/C 28, 35, 50, 80, and 100/2.2 ... the 100/2.2 is what really interests me for selective focus portraits ... a 155/3.5 T/S lens that focuses to 3 feet! The 28 would be a 45/6.3 that focus as close as 1.28 feet out to infinity ... love to try that and use tilt to blur the background on a wide angle close up.

The Hassey site says that the HC 150, 210 and 300 will fit the HTS adapter, but handling and performance can be compromised. Heck, I'd give a whirl just to see what happens ... with a portrait who cares if the edges go soft or something.

-Marc

 

[kuau]

I love using shift all the time on all my t/s lenses for composition I set up my D3x level then I just use the tilt to get it just the way I want. I don't do much stitching.
When shooting my Nikon 24mm PC-E I really don't need to tilt for DOF just shoot at f11 and I am pretty happy, but... when I use my 45 and 85mm to get the foreground in focus I use some tilt and that does the job.
So I assume the 35mm HC is like a 24mm in 35mm world, the 80mm is like a 50mm, and the 120mm is like 85mm am I close?
So I would like to have tilt on the 80 and 120mm HC lenses. Oops I forgot about the 1.5 X when using the HTS 1.5 so the 28mm becomes 42mm, the 35mm becomes 52mm so I would probably pass on the 35mm HC lens and get the 50mm HC and the 80mm then I would have a starting place. It sounds good I need to go out and rent this stuff. I wish there was a place in AZ that had this stuff.
Does the H3DII-22 use a 9 micron pixel like the P25+

Steven

 

[fotografz]

I love using shift all the time on all my t/s lenses for composition I set up my D3x level then I just use the tilt to get it just the way I want. I don't do much stitching.
When shooting my Nikon 24mm PC-E I really don't need to tilt for DOF just shoot at f11 and I am pretty happy, but... when I use my 45 and 85mm to get the foreground in focus I use some tilt and that does the job.
So I assume the 35mm HC is like a 24mm in 35mm world, the 80mm is like a 50mm, and the 120mm is like 85mm am I close?
So I would like to have tilt on the 80 and 120mm HC lenses. Oops I forgot about the 1.5 X when using the HTS 1.5 so the 28mm becomes 42mm, the 35mm becomes 52mm so I would probably pass on the 35mm HC lens and get the 50mm HC and the 80mm then I would have a starting place. It sounds good I need to go out and rent this stuff. I wish there was a place in AZ that had this stuff.
Does the H3DII-22 use a 9 micron pixel like the P25+

Steven

Yes, the H3D-II/22 uses 9 micron pixels. It is a good choice if affordable because of all the improvements. It is the last of the 22 meg H cameras.

Hasselblad has a certified pre-owned H3D-22 with no lens for under $8,000. comes with a warranty. Can't hurt to make them an offer.

One reason to use tilt even with wide lenses is to avoid defraction caused by stopping down to much ... tilt can often help utilize the sweet spot in aperture while maintaining DOF.

I just noticed that the HTS/1.5 can also be used with all the extension tubes (H13, H26, H52), for some very close work.

Your calculations are a small amount off. Attached is the web site location with 12 pages of information on the HTS 1.5 in detail.

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1332322/uk_hts_datasheet_v6.pdf

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Nice thing on Hassy and Phase is trade up programs. So when you want to move up there maybe something you can do and still maintain your lens system.

 

[kuau]

I just found a new H3DII-22 for 7995.00 with 1 year warranty body only is this a good deal or just "ok"

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Sounds pretty good to me . But let the Hassy folks answer it better

 

[fotografz]

I just found a new H3DII-22 for 7995.00 with 1 year warranty body only is this a good deal or just "ok"

Not bad considering that Hasselblad wants the same price for a H3D/22 with no lens and a 6 month warranty. The H3D-II is simply a better all around camera ... and a one year warranty beats the usual 3 or 6 months.

Ask the seller how many actuations on the back just to be safe.

-Marc