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Pentax countdown..........

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
To be completely honest Doug, it sounds like you are trying to run damage control more than anything else. It also seems like this camera is filling a bit of a niche that other medium format makers did not want filled.
Yeah it does sound like that. I wish you and I knew each other better so you could understand my simultaneous excitement about this camera and trepidation about expectations being so high before any real world usage is out there. I've seen friends and customers hurt by their unfulfilled expectations of (fill in the blank here: ZD, mamiya 45-90, hy6, wireless tethering for phase, h3d-60 available April 2009, etc etc).

Even this specific camera has been announced in various incarnations for several years.

This could not only be good; it could be great. I just want to see it before I believe it because I've lived through some very exciting announcements that went nowhere fast.

The weather-proofing doesn't have to be monsoon-grade to have value - all it needs to do is give the targeted buyer peace of mind that the camera will hold up decently well and not be very finicky in the intended use. I don't take my EOS-1v's out in a heavy rain either without wrapping them in something, regardless of what lens is mounted. But I'm confident that they won't die just from getting a few drops on them.
Absolutely right. Like I said the weather sealing is one of the most exciting parts of the announcement (along with the price). I would still want to see the equivalent of the Antartica hell-test (assuming that was a feature I was interested in) before I placed too much weight on it. But for sure it's a very exciting part of the announcement.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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bensonga

Well-known member
The 645D got me curious about what else might be out there that I have overlooked (not having been in the market for a MFD system since I bought a 503CWD).....so I just had a look at the Mamiya/Leaf systems available at B&H Photo. Certainly the Mamiya DM22 with an 80mm lens for $9,995 is a very attractively priced option! Unfortunately, the new DM40 is priced quite a bit higher. But again, removable back vs integrated body etc....lots of differences between these and the 645D to consider.

All in all...I think 2010 and beyond could be a good time for prospective buyers of MFD cameras!

Gary
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Some time ago I predicted that the fun would be watching the reaction of the established MFD players. It seems - for once - that I wasn't wrong ;)
 

thomas

New member
for landscapers the idea that you can't use the sensor on a technical camera is disappointing.
it's simply a different concept. Literally all cameras have non removable sensors - just DBs are removable. So there's nothing special with the Pentax 645D. The upside is they can build the camera within the tolerances needed with those high rez sensors. How does Phase One handle the tolerances? Why do I have to shim the screens of my Contax' to match the focus plane of the sensor? Why do I have to adjust my large format lenses to match the focus plane of the sensor? Why I have been shipped a P45 with a tilted, swinged an rotated sonsor first? Why I have been shipped 3 (new!) P21+ just to get one that works flawlessly (and that, btw, already needs recalibration again! And so my P45 does!). Is there any quality control at Phase One? Why did J. Holmes write an extensive report on "medium format precission"? Why can't I check focus reliably (and be it based on an in-camera JPG) on the LCD of a Phase One back? Why is a refurbished black metal box without any camera at all so much pricier than the 645D? Is it so much better and so much more accurate that the price is justified in any way?
I don't care what I've payed once for my DBs. I've decided to pay and I don't think back about that. However the 645D raises some serious questions when it comes to the prices of MFD.
 

Aaron

New member
The HUGE positive (and it is huge) is not in question: low price.

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Yes the price is good, not amazingly good, more relatively good. Probably the price is where MFD should have been to start with, there would still be a healthy number of people using the medium if that was the case.

But the price is only one factor here. If it cost the same as a H3D40 or Phamiya P40 it would still have my attention, the build quality and specification look to be top of the game to me.

If i were the competition i would be reacting fast to this, and reacting by offering discounted old technology like the H3d31/P30s etc.. is not going to cut it, too late for that.

All that remains is to see the results.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
If i were the competition i would be reacting fast to this, and reacting by offering discounted old technology like the H3d31/P30s etc.. is not going to cut it, too late for that.
No doubt that is exactly what they will do or and it sounds rather plausable given their stick head in the sand philosophy, they will do nothing until it's released for worldwide use then wring their hands and start going bust.

Lets face it, the phase or 'blad or even Leica camera bodies are a joke compared to this one. If a Phase body and P31 was offered at the same price or even a bit less, I'd laugh all the way to the Pentax stand.
 

KeithL

Well-known member
Make no mistake, unless it turns out to be a dog, which is highly unlikely, this Pentax is a game changer.

The 1.3 crop sensor is no good for my own applications, but for many out there the mere thought of a 40MP MFD camera for roughly a third of the price of the competition will have them drooling.

All those folk who have been seriously thinking of going the MFD route but have baulked at MFD prices will now sit on their wallets until the Pentax is released worldwide and then the fun will begin to see if they can actually make enough of them to meet demand.

Good on Pentax!
 

roanjoh

New member
I think one of things we have to remember here is that the 645D shares a lot of commonality with the Pentax K-7 (as evident from the interview), which is a fairly mature and proven camera on the field - and also offers more functionality than the current MFD in the market. With this in mind, I'm sure the handling of the 645D will almost mirror a DSLR. This is not a bad thing.

As far as image quality is concerned, this is a Kodak CCD sensor - also a proven manufacturer and is used by many professionals (and in many MFD backs that currently cost 2x or more than the Pentax). Another score for Pentax.

The big question is how the camera outputs the files when viewed on a computer. If they can slightly surpass the high end C/N, even at base ISO - then they will have a winner for sure.
 

David K

Workshop Member
It occurs to me that if this new Pentax sells well, and I think it will, then it might motivate Nikon and/or Canon to get in the MF game. I've always believed that this hasn't happened because the entire MF market is too small to warrant their participation. On the other hand, corporate "pride" may motivate them where potential sales haven't, i.e. "if Pentax can do it... we can do it better". I have fond memories of my "King of the Road" Dodge SRT-10 pickup truck... a financial loser on it's own but it sure brought a lot of folks into the dealership who bought something else.
 

roanjoh

New member
I have serious doubt that C/N will get into the MF market. They might focus their R&D on mirrorless, smaller DSLR (aka - m4/3, Samsung NX10) as the majority of the market is heading towards that direction to compliment their current gears. Ideally for me, Canon/Nikon will introduce a direct competition to the M9 - a small, mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor :)

But then again, you never know...........Pentax pretty much jumped the ship on full-frame DSLR and went straight to MF territory.
 

Lars

Active member
Yeah the key for C/N is to keep their glass compatible. Moving up to a bigger sensor means a whole new market for them.

Pentax is experimenting with this release. the 645D has been on and off as a project within Pentax several times over the last few years. Finally they decided to take it all the way to a product, launch it in Japan to test the waters. My guess is that international distribution is by no means a given.

There is some marketing logic to this though - strengthen the brand for a future fullframe 24x36 DSLR. The Pentax lens family for FF is quite interesting even today, but the body is missing.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I have serious doubt that C/N will get into the MF market. They might focus their R&D on mirrorless, smaller DSLR (aka - m4/3, Samsung NX10) as the majority of the market is heading towards that direction to compliment their current gears. Ideally for me, Canon/Nikon will introduce a direct competition to the M9 - a small, mirrorless camera with a full frame sensor :)

But then again, you never know...........Pentax pretty much jumped the ship on full-frame DSLR and went straight to MF territory.

What is stopping Pentax from coming up with a FF mirrorless cam?!

I can understand the rationale for 10+frames/s and fast AF but there are plenty of users who do not need that but still would like to have FF (35mm speak) sensored bodies that aren't truck sized.

I am looking forward to the Samsung NX10 showing up for sale.
 

Oren Grad

Active member
Pentax currently doesn't have the resources to compete on all fronts. They're barely hanging on in the photographic market. Hoya could pull the plug at any moment.

Bringing the 645D to market, at long last, leverages the existing platform of compatible lenses and satisfied owners of the film models. From the perspective of a business desperately in need of a reason for continued existence, and of critical mass to justify and sustain future development efforts, it represents a rational attempt to find a niche at least somewhat sheltered from direct attack by Nikon/Canon, where Pentax has some distinctive value to offer.

The markets for both FF and mirrorless interchangeable lens are, by comparison, brutally competitive already. Pentax may have to enter the latter as a defensive move, but they will not be playing a strong hand.

Remember that Mamiya used to sell 35mm cameras too. They've continued to take their lumps and bumps, but their decision to withdraw from that larger market to take shelter in the niche of medium format is probably one important reason why they're still around today.
 
T

tetsrfun

Guest
Bringing the 645D to market, at long last, leverages the existing platform of compatible lenses and satisfied owners of the film models. From the perspective of a business desperately in need of a reason for continued existence, and of critical mass to justify and sustain future development efforts, it represents a rational attempt to find a niche at least somewhat sheltered from direct attack by Nikon/Canon, where Pentax has some distinctive value to offer.
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I am surprised that Hoya has made this move. The speculation was, at the time of the take-over/merger, that the camera division would be sold off. My guess would be that most of the R & D and "getting ready for production" money had been spent and the additional capital needed for a test marketing in Japan wasn't that much.

The "price" point for this camera is at/slightly below my psychological threshold for a MFD upgrade. The HD4-40 isn't even close. I suspect that there are enough people in this small market, with a similar threshold, to make the Pentax a success if it performs up to it advertised specs.

Steve
 

roanjoh

New member
What is stopping Pentax from coming up with a FF mirrorless cam?!
Maybe a FF mirrored cam?? :D

How do you think the purist and traditional users will react if Pentax introduces a mirrorless full frame camera before the more traditional/clunky mirrored one? Yeah - pissed!!
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Bringing the 645D to market, at long last, leverages the existing platform of compatible lenses and satisfied owners of the film models.
Exactly! This also why I think it is very unlikely that Canon or Nikon will enter the medium format digital market. They never entered the medium format film market and don't have an established base of dedicated owners (like myself) who already own a few useable lenses (hence reducing that initial entry price) which could have given them an immediate "in" to this market.

Also, why would Canon or Nikon basically cannibalize sales from their $6-$8k pro DSLRs and spend the money to develop a whole new line of lenses for MFD? I don't see a real advantage for them in a move to MFD....unless of course, the Pentax 645D makes a very, very BIG dent in the sales of Canon/Nikon pro DSLRs.

I'm just glad that Pentax finally came thru with the 645D....and with a product that is very attractively priced vs the existing MFD players.

Gary
 
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Sharokin

New member
I hope this camera is a huge success as it will pressure not only MF makers in Hasselblad and Phase, but high DSLR's from Canon and Nikon.
On paper the 40MP cameras from Phase and Hassy look pretty overpriced right now.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Many more photos of the 645D here:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/pview/20100315_353742.html

Including some with a P67 105mm f2.4 lens attached. There will be a digital future for my P67 lenses after all. :thumbs:

I've found that I actually prefer using my P67 lenses mounted on the 645NII I bought recently....the camera feels well balanced with those bigger lenses. I'm going to send the manual focus 645 lenses I purchased with the camera back to KEH and perhaps pick up some of the 645 FA (autofocus) lenses in the future.

Gary



 

Terry

New member
I like the way the screen on the top deck is angled. I barely use my top screens because they don't seem to be in a good viewing position.

The 645 AF lenses are scarce!
 
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