why i shoot with C645

[David Klepacki]

... My feeling is that Sinar's Hy6 kit may have trumped Leaf with their adapter system (not to mention their somewhat higher pricing). This to me is a shame because I have been very happy with my Aptus backs, but I'm guessing Thierry is not losing sleep over this.

You bring up a great point. The images from the Leaf are certainly as good as the others, but their dedicated backs could be a serious detriment to them. The high cost of these backs will bring into question the longevity and flexibility of such an investment.

Leaf will have a tough road ahead of them ... maybe very tough. I see only two ways of staying alive. One is to be able to reduce costs significantly so that they are at the same level as the Mamiya. But even then, at the same price I don't want a camera that only takes one back (or vice versa).

The other option for them is to innovate. One example would be to add a focal plane shutter to their AFi body. Another example would be for them to exploit their large LCD screens further by integrating a focusing sensor/mechanism into their Aptus backs. Such a back would take the place of a SLR, and so could provide live-view "through-the sensor focus confirmation" and be used on Alpa rangefinder and any other system that would otherwise need a sliding back adapter to focus.

Otherwise, if they don't do something...soon....I am afraid it is only a matter of time that they will perish.

 

[DougDolde]

It's only a matter of time until We All perish.

 

[fotografz]

The latest and greatest Mamiya AFD /Phase camera does not have things such as in-camera flash meter and interchangeable viewfinders, nor a precision geared autobellows like for the Contax. that is strong enough to choose over the Contax system. The only exception is perhaps their 28mm lens, but in that case I would prefer using the Alpa for ultra-wide work.

In fact, I cannot find any overwhelming feature/capability of the newest Mamiya/Phase camera

The Contax 645 was such a good, well thought out camera. To bad Kyocera bailed on it. The 645-II would have been something else.

Here's a message for Hasselblad:

come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

Place me on the top of the list to get one.

Thank you.

 

[David Klepacki]

...

Here's a message for Hasselblad:

come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

Place me on the top of the list to get one.

Thank you.

Now that would force me to eat humble pie! You just ruined my day....they may listen to you.

Sinar, if you are listening, please think about adding a focal plane shutter to the Hy6 as well.

 

[irakly]

WWWOWWW! now i have to make some dough...

The Contax 645 was such a good, well thought out camera. To bad Kyocera bailed on it. The 645-II would have been something else.

Here's a message for Hasselblad:

come out with a focal plane shutter H3 body. Available technology should make it possible for 1/8000th and 1/250 sync. Keep all the rest the same. Add camera firmware that recognizes the FE optics as well as the CF/CFi/CFE lenses for use on a fully automatic adapter.

Place me on the top of the list to get one.

Thank you.

 

[DougDolde]

On the Carl Zeiss website there are so clues <maybe> that something will happen in the future with Contax. Maybe she ain't dead forever. Click the Contax link on this page:

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/858dbbbbd2fb78a6c125711800592377

Highlights are;

1. Who owns the "Contax" brand?
The "Contax" brand belongs to Carl Zeiss. Carl Zeiss has granted a license to Kyocera for the use of the "Contax" brand. In return, Kyocera has undertaken to purchase the lenses for all "Contax" cameras from Carl Zeiss.

2. What will happen to the Contax brand in the future?
Under the brand name CONTAX, Kyocera – Kyoto Ceramics has launched excellent cameras with Carl Zeiss lenses on the market for many years. We regret that Kyocera has decided not to continue these activities in accordance with an agreement signed on April 12, 2005.

However, there is still a contract between Carl Zeiss and Kyocera governing the exclusive use of the CONTAX brand by Kyocera. Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments.

 

[David Klepacki]

Also, Hasselblad would have to let go of their proprietary software, and create genuine portable DNG files ... that would do it for a lot of people.

 

[tom in mpls]

Since this contract will remain in effect for several more years, we cannot yet provide any concrete information on future developments.

Doug, I would be as happy as anyone to see a revival of the line, but I am not holding my breath on this.

 

[fotografz]

Now that would force me to eat humble pie! You just ruined my day....they may listen to you.

Sinar, if you are listening, please think about adding a focal plane shutter to the Hy6 as well.

Actually, my dealer just left my studio after setting up the H3D/39/Rodenstock 120 macro/Xact-II using Phocus (sweet) ... he like my idea a lot and is going to send my H3DFP suggestion on to the powers that be at Hasselblad.

It's a no brainer ... the camera is ready for it ... unless they're already up to something ...

 

[fotografz]

Also, Hasselblad would have to let go of their proprietary software, and create genuine portable DNG files ... that would do it for a lot of people.

There's already DNGs built in for Flexcolor and Phocus, they'd just have to make it a click option or preference selection to have it work in the background when downloading like the way Sinar is doing it. DNGs in the camera doesn't work so well for 39 meg files as it slows down the process.

Hasselblad also needs to have the DAC corrections migrate to DNGs when converting ... but maybe Phocus will have that ... it's not finished yet.

DNGs are okay for processing lots of shots, but LR and other 3rd party software isn't as good as Flex or Phocus.

 

[David Klepacki]

Actually, my dealer just left my studio after setting up the H3D/39/Rodenstock 120 macro/Xact-II using Phocus (sweet) ... he like my idea a lot and is going to send my H3DFP suggestion on to the powers that be at Hasselblad.

It's a no brainer ... the camera is ready for it ... unless they're already up to something ...

Well...for me to ever think about going completely to a Hasselblad body, they would have to revive the 200 series, updated for digital and with revolving back and full frame square sensor support, and of course auto focus digital versions of their best CFE/FE lenses...I think it is just too tall an order, and Sinar has a better chance at achieving most of this capability with follow on cameras to the Hy6. I guess we can only wait and see.

 

[fotografz]

Well...for me to ever think about going completely to a Hasselblad body, they would have to revive the 200 series, updated for digital and with revolving back and full frame square sensor support, and of course auto focus digital versions of their best CFE/FE lenses...I think it is just too tall an order, and Sinar has a better chance at achieving most of this capability with follow on cameras to the Hy6. I guess we can only wait and see.

I don't think the notion is to win you over David. It's to further expand the working tools available to the far greater body of Hasselblad H users out there plying their trade. A focal plane H body would further enhance the decision they have already made ... and, like me, in practical application provide access to lenses they may well aready have.

I think the Hy6 system is terrific. I had a demo in studio. However, nothing impressive enough to jump ship, especially the 80mm. It didn't seem to impress Irakly either, and he is a die-in-the-wool Rollei user, with little to no interest in Hasselblad. If the Hy6 offered a Focal Plane option my interest would've been much higher ... it would be a natural sucessor to the Hasselblad 200 series. But very few pros I know would care about that option if it cost 50K to impliment. A focal plane H body would probable run less than 1/10th of that.

Personally, I'm loath to drop another 50K+ on yet another leaf shutter system that basically duplicates what I already have just to gain to access to a few breathtakingly expensive AF lenses no matter how good they are, and no paying client could care a farthing about. Esoteric internet debates on bokeh and edge gradations are one thing, business is another ... and business in the US will have to get a LOT better before a mimimium of 50K+ is dumped on some idylic etherial pursuit.

To expand on this: perhaps the tall order isn't Hasselblad's ... it's Zeiss'. Schneider has stepped up with AF lenses for the Hy6 system. Zeiss is blocked from using the Contax name and it is unclear what hold Kyocera has on the 645 AF Zeiss lenses they manufactured under license to Zeiss and branded as Contax... but it's clear they not making any.

It's the interesting aspect of the whole MF market right now. Zeiss dominance in the market for so long, the market going to 645AFD primarily due to sensor sizes, but also partially due to their excellent Contax 645 lens offerings ... then being blocked from the market they helped pioneer.

 

[David K]

Personally, I'm loath to drop another 50K+ on yet another leaf shutter system that basically duplicates what I already have just to gain to access to a few breathtakingly expensive AF lenses no matter how good they are

Exactly... and that goes for all of us I'm sure. This is what tipped the balance toward Sinar for me. For the cost of an adapter, about $1800, you have access to a whole 'nother camera platform. BTW, why are these adapters so expensive. The Mamiya 645 to RZ adapter for the ZD back costs $649. Some of these back accessories seem to be priced like parts for my boat (if it's got the word marine in it, just triple the price). Another example, Mamiya's ZD back batteries at around $170 each are available for about $10 if you do some digging.

 

[thsinar]

David,

to answer your question about the adapter prices:

- the price range for the eMotion adapters goes from Euro 365.- (adapter Sinar Hy6) to Euro 1'128.- (Revolving adapter for the Sinar Hy6 and adapter for the Rolleiflex 6008)

- the price range for the Sinarback 54 series and eVolution 75H goes from Euro 299.- (adapter for Sinar m) to Euro 852.- (adapter for Mamiya RZ and Rolleiflex 6008)

Those are recommended enduser prices which can vary from one country to another.

As you can see, adapter prices are depending on different factors: the type of back, the type of communication between camera and back and the mechanical difficulty. Most adapters nowadays have internal electronics and contacts, some adapters do even have an internal specific firmware.
Most of the time it is not a simple mechanical part.

Best regards,
Thierry

... BTW, why are these adapters so expensive.

 

[David K]

Thierry,

Thank you for your clarification on adapter prices... always better to have the real facts as opposed to misinformation. I have been quoted $1800 for the Contax 645 adapter and a similar price for the revolving adapter and mistakenly assumed they were all about the same. BTW, I've said this before but it's worth repeating I think. Your active participation on this and other forums is another factor that has made me feel comfortable about moving to Sinar.

 

[fotografz]

Exactly... and that goes for all of us I'm sure. This is what tipped the balance toward Sinar for me. For the cost of an adapter, about $1800, you have access to a whole 'other camera platform. BTW, why are these adapters so expensive. The Mamiya 645 to RZ adapter for the ZD back costs $649. Some of these back accessories seem to be priced like parts for my boat (if it's got the word marine in it, just triple the price). Another example, Mamiya's ZD back batteries at around $170 each are available for about $10 if you do some digging.

Personally David, I'm tipping toward Sinar myself as a back-up digital solution ... maybe not on a $11,000 Hy6 with $6,000. lenses on it, but because it's the only one that hooks up to my 203FE and 503CW systems which are already paid for ... integration is irrelevant with those cameras.

If I have to pay an additional $1,800 (I was told $2,000) for an adapter to use a Sinar, then I'd have to think about that. If you buy a back, does it come with one adapter?

It also seems pretty darn hard to find used or demo units. The quantity is so small in the US that they seem few and far between.

My other major worry is that I suspect that a Sinar update is immanent. The screen and other aspects seem in need of "refreshing" when compared to other backs.

I think it's time for the waiting game. Let the market sort itself out, and observe the next wave of advancements that are sure to come.

Thanks for your comments and sharing your point of view.

 

[fotografz]

David,

to answer your question about the adapter prices:

- the price range for the eMotion adapters goes from Euro 365.- (adapter Sinar Hy6) to Euro 1'128.- (Revolving adapter for the Sinar Hy6 and adapter for the Rolleiflex 6008)

- the price range for the Sinarback 54 series and eVolution 75H goes from Euro 299.- (adapter for Sinar m) to Euro 852.- (adapter for Mamiya RZ and Rolleiflex 6008)

Those are recommended enduser prices which can vary from one country to another.

As you can see, adapter prices are depending on different factors: the type of back, the type of communication between camera and back and the mechanical difficulty. Most adapters nowadays have internal electronics and contacts, some adapters do even have an internal specific firmware.
Most of the time it is not a simple mechanical part.

Best regards,
Thierry

Those prices are less daunting.

 

[David Klepacki]

Personally David, I'm tipping toward Sinar myself as a back-up digital solution ... maybe not on a $11,000 Hy6 with $6,000. lenses on it, but because it's the only one that hooks up to my 203FE and 503CW systems which are already paid for ... i

Marc, I knew you would come around to have a Sinar back It makes so much sense for you, with your other Hasselblad gear.

 

[thsinar]

Thanks for your nice words: always encouraging to hear that one's contribution helps others.

The Contax 645 adapter is about Euro 120.- cheaper in my "Recommented Prices": these 10% difference are probably due to some country specific raison. I could imagine that the exchange rate plays a role in the US currently.
On the other hand, the revolving adapter is exactly corresponding to our recommended price.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

Thank you for your clarification on adapter prices... always better to have the real facts as opposed to misinformation. I have been quoted $1800 for the Contax 645 adapter and a similar price for the revolving adapter and mistakenly assumed they were all about the same. BTW, I've said this before but it's worth repeating I think. Your active participation on this and other forums is another factor that has made me feel comfortable about moving to Sinar.

 

[David K]

Marc,
Thierry is best suited to answer some of your questions but you raise a good point with regard to the Sinar update. If I understood Thierry's earlier post there will be an update to a 2.5" OLED from the current 2" OLED within the next few weeks as well as updated electronics for better high ISO shooting, etc. This update is available to existing owners (of the e75) for somewhere around $2k (30% discount from $3k recommended price) but it comes with the revolving adapter which is close to $2k anyway. Give or take a few dollars, if you were going to buy the revolving adapter (I am) the upgrade is essentially free (actually, you get a new back with the upgrade). Frankly, if it were otherwise, I'd probably be complaining since I haven't even taken delivery of my unit and it's already old technology (at least to this limited extent). With regard to demo unit availability, Steve Hendrix had a demo kit which will become available in a few months. Apparently Sinar has a one year waiting period requirement before dealers are allowed to sell a unit as a demo. There is no question that you need to look around to get the best pricing. Unfortunately, this is not like buying a Nikon D3. Pricing and options can vary considerably. The deal that David Klepacki got on his demo was not available to me and the deal that I got on my unit is probably not available to you. Confused yet ???