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Hasselblad H3D 50 II Multishot Versus Phase One P65+ / 645AF

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Dale Allyn

New member
I didn't come away from the article with the feeling that the author set out to do a hatchet job on Hassy... more that he simply doesn't know how to get the best out of that system.
This is also my reaction to the article.

All of these kits will obviously make fine images if used for tasks for which they are well suited, and by photographers who understand how to get the most from each.

(I also agree with the remarks suggesting that one has conscious and sub-conscious prejudices or "justifications" that color such "reviews". I mean no disrespect to Marc D., but suggest that this is why one must do their own research and make decisions based on personal preferences.)

Carsten's post above is fair (as are others') and well stated IMO.
 

thomas

New member
These systems are huge investments and one generally wants to make the "best" decision.
yes, but the "best" decission is the one that suits to your existing gear. So he wouldn't give away anything if IQ would be the same. Unless he is a very narrow minded person...
 

jerome

Member
I have the 50 MP in test right now, it's an amazing camera and back.

The last time I saw this Mark Dubovoy, it was at Death Valley where he was working for P1 workshop with Mickael Reichmann : I suppose he should honestly tell he isn't unconnected with P1 before making a "fair" test.

I must say that a test where the guy shot his garden after having explained "he carefully choose subject without depth" and that he tried to find the best adjustment in Phocus so the images don't look "too good" his just hilarious and ridiculous :)
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
I am doing that right now...comparing H and P...doing mainly macro shots of watches...see the Fun with MF thread. Watches are my principal subjects, as well as studio portraits...mainly beauty. So I shoot these to try out both systems.

I am nearing my conclusions...in terms of IQ, I think both are very, very good. So its up to preferences...and my personal preferences lean me towards one system rather than the other.

A review like this from Marc Dubovoy does not help me (or people like me) one bit in making my decisions. Its just too biased, and too much highliting small issues which may not affect my style of shooting.

But participating in a forum like this (thanks Guy and Jack) does help, though the real test is to handle the cameras, shooting subjects important to you. I am going to buy the system which brings a smile to my face when I shoot and see the results.

Did the same thing and never regret so far and also think not in the future.

And even if some facts will change how I do photography and what I need in the future, well then I might switch to a different system or buy as a second one and not look back in an angry way, because each system is right for me for the time I use it. Otherwise I would not have bought anymore.
Exactly right.

One day I will test both Hasselblad and Phase One systems to figure out what is right for me. And guess what? I will not take any pictures of newspapers or circuit boards or color charts. I will make photos that I care about, and I will process those images like I care about them, and I will print them like it matters.

Honestly, I bet that the differences between the two systems will mostly be about how useful I find the features for the way I like to work.

Oh, and since I make pictures for primarily my own personal recreation, once I decide which system is best for me, I won't give a damn what anyone else thinks.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just on the surface of thinking here as to what some issues could arise from this kind of testing , since I do these myself but movement between the multishots is always a possibility involved. Right now I am testing a 80mm LS lens against the 80mmD lens and I am on the third lens test since I am not getting repeatable results. Shooting the 80mm LS for instance wide open looks very nice and sharp in normal shooting but up against the 80mm D it failed twice out of three times to compare against it. Now how do i write this review but to say exactly this it looks good but still not sure. The real answer here is repeatable results to make a call. So maybe doing a test once is not enough and frankly myself I run tests on the same thing but different subject at least twice. Not saying he did not do it correctly but sometimes test results vary and one must be very sure of them.

End of the day bottom line is what works for you may not work to the guy sitting next to you either. As a tester or reviewer i take this stance I shoot Phase I am happy with that decision but I look at everything out there like Hassy. Leaf, Sinar and leica and want them to succeed as well. It does US users no good at all ever to have one supplier, I try my damnest to leave any of my personal decisions out of those reviews.
 

jecxz

Active member
The last time I saw this Mark Dubovoy, it was at Death Valley where he was working for P1 workshop with Mickael Reichmann : I suppose he should honestly tell he isn't unconnected with P1 before making a "fair" test.
Jerome, thank you for pointing this out, I didn't know this. Very interesting.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
www.jecxz.com
 

Professional

Active member


Is that freaking DXO mark true :((((( i'm so upset now !!! please tell it's not :( please any one !!
Does it matter? I don't have Nikon or Phase One, i will never look at Nikon at all and P1 maybe i will think but not seriously, but at the end i am happy with Hasselblad, and if i have to choice in the beginning between P1 and Hassy i will go with Hassy.
Also our local dealer for Hasselblad is top notch service, Phase One dealer here is disappered, even i don't know where his location and he never has any events or offers to show, Hasselblad dealers every year has something to show and even he accepted to do traded-in of my H3DII for H4D in good way of payment, couldn't be happier and i wish if Phase One local dealer do something similar as i know how strong and powerful Phase One is[and you people show that no doubt].
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Raw data which does not count for ANY raw converter which for Hassy and Phase is known to improve on all levels of file.

Case in point go read the P40+ which I can tell you right now is EXACTLY like the P65+ . Jack and I shoot side by side more times than i can count and our files are identical except for one thing he has 20 more mpx on me. But the DR is identical and same with low light and whatever they test is dead wrong. They rate my P40+ below the 65+. What they do NOT take into account at all is C1 which fine tunes all the Phase backs just like Phocus does with Hassy files. So yes this numbers may mean something up front but on the back end they mean very little to the shooter. To the arm chair pixel peeper guru they use these numbers for argument sake which means **** in the field. There I said it . Now ask me how I really feel and it would not be fit to print. :D

Bottom line either you are a photographer or your a scientist and only one of them creates art. :bugeyes:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I shot this image with one thought in my mind. Vodka Martini

It's early I will start with a Bloody Mary

 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Folks,

this had to come :rolleyes:

Who really believes in DXO marks or what so ever? Alone if I compare H3D/50 with D3X that tells me everything. How did they measure that? I really question this result. I have used the D3X and the D3 for myself and I am using a H3D39 (very ancient compared to the H3D50) but even my old H3D39 produces far better results than any Nikon Pro DSLR (or any other DSLR), otherwise I would never have bought this stuff.

There is a saying which I remember from university - "Who measures a lot measures a lot of garbage" - I cannot resist to think that these DXO lab results are just very bad garbage!

Take the system, try it under your requirements and then decide.

You can spend all your time in your life reading all these fancy test reports and never know what you really should go for :(

Why bother? It does not help. Make your own picture and your own decision!

Just my 5c ...
 

Professional

Active member
Raw data which does not count for ANY raw converter which for Hassy and Phase is known to improve on all levels of file.

Case in point go read the P40+ which I can tell you right now is EXACTLY like the P65+ . Jack and I shoot side by side more times than i can count and our files are identical except for one thing he has 20 more mpx on me. But the DR is identical and same with low light and whatever they test is dead wrong. They rate my P40+ below the 65+. What they do NOT take into account at all is C1 which fine tunes all the Phase backs just like Phocus does with Hassy files. So yes this numbers may mean something up front but on the back end they mean very little to the shooter. To the arm chair pixel peeper guru they use these numbers for argument sake which means **** in the field. There I said it . Now ask me how I really feel and it would not be fit to print. :D

Bottom line either you are a photographer or your a scientist and only one of them creates art. :bugeyes:
Scientist serve the photographer by producing the tools, then the photographer use the tool to produce art :D ;)
 

carstenw

Active member
My conclusion is that the more testing I read, the more upset I become (no matter what I own), but when I go home and make photos, they are just as good as they always were. If I need more DR I will discover it in my shots, not on the DxO website.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Peter how did you get to 5 cents. Is it inflation. LOL

Totally agree bud. Half this stuff is so meaningless
 

Professional

Active member
Folks,

this had to come :rolleyes:

Who really believes in DXO marks or what so ever?

Take the system, try it under your requirements and then decide.

You can spend all your time in your life reading all these fancy test reports and never know what you really should go for :(

Why bother? It does not help. Make your own picture and your own decision!

Just my 5c ...
+1 I couldn't agree more :thumbup:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
My conclusion is that the more testing I read, the more upset I become (no matter what I own), but when I go home and make photos, they are just as good as they always were. If I need more DR I will discover it in my shots, not on the DxO website.
Carsten the bottom line between anyone of the backs in any flavor is about at the most and i mean the most is about 3/4 of a stop. That is the difference between a P25 9 micron and a P65 6 micron and pretty much all the backs will fall in that same area. A P45 is maybe a half a stop for reference. These are things Jack and I picked up on just testing the backs in Phase.
 

mAlKhamis

New member
I'm a junior scientist/photographer this is why these test usually grab my attention,, however i'm relieved to read this statement from DXO lab regarding MF test on the DXO overall scale !!

"Related information
Medium-format camera ranking with respect to DxOMark Sensor scale

Professional portrait and landscape photographers often use medium-format cameras because of their superb performance under controlled lighting conditions. However, as these cameras are definitely not designed for so-called “action photography” scenarios, they generally do not perform well with respect to DxO Labs’ Low-Light ISO metric. Because of this inherent low-light limitation, medium-format cameras do not receive top marks on the overall DxOMark Sensor scale, even though they may show outstanding performance with respect to Color Depth or Dynamic Range.
Read more"

however now !! i'm on the edge of buying a totally new MF system, Hassy for it's legacy or P1 for the new performance !!
 
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