I see! I am pretty sure those Capture One presets are not camera specific, i.e. not determined in particular for the P65+ as there are the same preset values for other cameras as well. At ISO50 and ISO100 I guess the P65+ will look fine even at luminance NR set to zero and color NR values somewhere between 12 and 20 (in Doug's ISO100 P65+ shot from the CI site I've just set the preset for my P45 at ISO50 which is lumNR-00 | colNR-12 and found the image to look really good).
Honestly I am finding the NR settings (i.e. the presets) in Captue One really strange...
yes, of course, it's also quite possible that it's just motion blur!need to shoot some tests, preferably on a brighter day with a faster shutter.
Tim,but any improvements to shutter lag and to shutter and mirror crash and slap are not sufficient to make them acceptable IMHO.
Your personal dislikes on Phase bodies aside, if your DF body's AF speed is "not sufficiently different" than your AFD3's was, and if you have even similar mirror slap as before, then you've got another significant set of problems and plain bad luck again with a new kit...
(Sidebar: I have confirmed, as has Guy and as have several other DF users, that shutter lag is significantly better than it was in the AFD3 and mirror slap is significantly better. But since we've discussed all this and shown samples in other threads, I won't bother 'hijacking' your thread to repeat it all again here.)
That wasn't what I was saying:
In other words I think the AF is improved (and seems now to be as good as the S2) and I also think the mirror slap, shutter whip and lag are also improved but still not as good, clearly, as the S2, which is hugely better in these areas. I also said:
Did you see the Hartblei files I posted for you? I made a 23 x 31" print from it today (because I gave up trying to get accurate colour on the Apple 30" cinema display and got an Eizo for proofing and was trying to see if that was going to give me better results) and that Hartblei file looks really good... I remembered that you were in communication with another forum member about buying one and wanted to show what a good copy can do...
Last edited by tashley; 21st March 2010 at 15:08.
Okay, that clarifies somewhat. However, when I tested the S2, I felt mirror slap was about equal in both cameras -- and given the fact the DF's mirror is larger, I chalked one up in the Phase column here. So we disagree...
Yes, and thanks for that -- I just returned home where I have a fast enough connection to download it quickly. I looked at the file and while yours is indeed one of the best copies I've seen, the edges remain a bit soft for my liking. There are no details to speak of in the upper left, but the bricks in the upper RH corner for example, are pretty mushy.Did you see the Hartblei files I posted for you? I made a 23 x 31" print from it today (because I gave up trying to get accurate colour on the Apple 30" cinema display and got an Eizo for proofing and was trying to see if that was going to give me better results) and that Hartblei file looks really good... I remembered that you were in communication with another forum member about buying one and wanted to show what a good copy can do...
IMO at this point in time, the old Mamiya 50 shift lens remains a better alternative if one needs perspective corrections in that focal range, but of course, it can't tilt. It's clear to me that I won't be satisfied until I get that Arca M-2
i know we are picking your brain....CLEAN it sometimes seems. However, you slipped in a small nuclear weapon; you RETURNED the S2? Was it just frustration with the sample variations and sensor problems or are we looking at an M8 situation or worse?
Has anyone else had the sensor problems? they tend to go in 'batches' that is, either the circuit bd or the silicon wafer gets contaminated; time for a major recall. Any idea what Leica is doing?
I can't risk my Ireland trip with only the P65+ and ALPA as backup. Maybe I will stick with my current (to remain un-named) kit until Leica sorts this out.
What about others? Guy/Jack, did you see any sensor problems (you didn't mention explicily, but many times they are condidtion specific; e.g. I had an issue with the P65+ in very hot sunny weather.
Any comment would be appreciated
PS Tim, glad the Hartblei is working out. I have a good example as well.
On the Hartblei camera, I played with (well, actually BOUGHT) a Truewide, and I am frustrated with the vignetting and the slow shutter. Both seem to be design issues. I may ask Keith to mill out motre as it turns out the Leica Modular 800mm DOES have a big enough image circle
must have missed it. Thanks for the reply. as you can imagine things get real serious with the dinero involved here!
I really think I just got a bad run, and tend to be picky too. I haven't heard a single other report of sensor issues, even from those that are most doubtful of the S2, and for me it was just one too many Mayfair traffic jam on a 'switch out' run. The S2 team seem to me (and I have spent a lot of time talking with them) to be a LOT more responsive than the M guys. I never had an issue that wasn't agreed with immediately and replaced as fast as I wanted but I did just decide to go with that good ol' Phase system that I don't enjoy using but which does deliver reliably in general. I am fairly sure that when the water has settled I will be back to the S system...
So you bought the Hartblei lens rather than the camera?
As for your trip... I would hire the S2 as you planned. Using it fully is such a valuable reference point and I had very few files from it that couldn't have been invisibly mended given a little time and effort. It truly is a lovely camera but it is a Bristol rather than a Mercedes...
Last edited by tashley; 22nd March 2010 at 14:58.
I became concerned after reading about Tim's unfortunate run with the S2. As a result, I have gone back through my S2 photos to date and have not been able to detect any of the sensor issues Tim ran into. Believe me, I am looking close now and will be for a while.
I agree with Tim, you should definitely plan to go ahead with your idea to take the S2 to Ireland. It will be an excellent way for you to get to know the camera in real world conditions.
"....but it is a Bristol rather than a Mercedes... "
i have driven Mercedes since 1973!
PS What the hell is a Bristol?
Hard to believe that Tim had trouble with the S2 as he's generally so lucky with his camera gear. Tim, I hope you take this in the good natured way it's intended but if I owned a camera company I think I'd buy you one of my competitor's kits You have my sincere condolences for all the grief you've gone through with gear. The good news is that Leica seems to have done the right thing by you in taking the kit back. I sure hope they get whatever the issue is sorted out. I just sent my DMR in for repair (second time this year) and they were very nice about covering the cost under warranty even though the earlier repair was unrelated. In my experience they have excellent customer service, albeit a bit slower that one might hope for.
LOL so when it breaks down it does not go to a repair shop it goes directly back to the OEM. Sounds like a Leica
Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.
AFAIK the Hartblei is limited WRT shift... basically shift is only provided with dedicated shift lenses (Hartblei/Canon TS) and I cannot imagine that corner sharpness will be great at large movements with your P65+. But maybe I'm wrong. Too, the image circles of the lenses in question are limited... I think for a P65+ those high rez lenses with really large image circles make sense (i.e. the upcoming "Super Digitar" 43mm + 28mm and the Digaron-W lenses).
With an arTec, of course, you could use all those lenses (resp. the Rodenstocks). The arTec is a great camera IMO. But it's not primarily designed for stitching more than 2 captures (though, of course, it's possible if you use movements on both the lens and the rear).
Interessting to read about your experiences with the S2. To be fair: one could face the same (or similar) trouble with all cameras/brands. However it shows how big the discrepancy between claims and reality is.
As to your feelings about the Mamiya bodies... I've no idea if you need the 645 camera for jobs or if you use it for pesonal fine art work or whatever. But as you are apparently so demanding WRT the haptic feeling, built quality, ergonomics etc. I wonder if you have ever handled a Contax? If you need a fast and reliable AF even in demanding lighting conditions the Contax is most likely not a good choice. But it is so nice and easy to handle, it has a really nice vertical grip, a waist level finder, you can exchange the screens fast and easy... and, of course, the lenses are still really good.
At least it's (still) worth a look...
I would certainly try the Hatblei cam out first. Mr Reichmann at Lula was smitten with it using the 24TS from Canon but that was on a P40+ I think - however he seems to be hinting that these lenses were designed to cover a much larger image circle than you might imagine, and that there could be good reasons for that.
The key issue with the Hartblei and the Sinar is that you can focus the damned things without having to swap the back out for a GG. For shift, this is never a problem with the Cambo because I use a 35MM and F16 so everything is in focus. But I would like to use some tilts and some longer focal lengths with them for some very odd and selective focus effects (such as a forest where all the floor is in focus but trunks are rising into OOF) and this requires really accurate focus.
Regarding the S2, I'm not even p***d about it and Leica had such a good attitude. It's just that I bought it as an absolutely no hassle, elegant MF solution for certain uses and it turned out to be more of a hassle than I wanted to deal with and yes, similar levels of faults do seem to turn up with so many other brands - except for Phase, whose backs seem just to work.
As for the Phammy body, well ideally I would swap everything out for the contax if it weren't for the fact that my SLR style MF needs encompass some studio work and so it has to be able to focus really well with modelling lights. The Phammy does that now, and I'll get over the things I don't like. I only mentioned any of this because someone asked my opinion, it's not a deal-breaker for me or I wouldn't have done it, having originally shot the new and old bodies side by side in early October last year and knowing roughly what I'd be getting into. It's like the info console on my partner's Merc SL - you can't have the speed and distance read out in miles but the temperatures in Celcius, as most Brits want. It's maddening but there's nothing you can do about it!
makes sense. Thanks!
Other than sensor issues I did not have any issues... they just work. I had 2 or 3 sync errors using the tech camera (most likely user error) and 2 funky captures right before the battery went down.
With the Contax I have never had any trouble at all (although... some trouble when using recharchable batteries).
Are we still talking about your POSH gear or your P.O.S. gear?
No rush with those images... just whenever you get off replying. I'm glad there are all good chaps with good humours ... luckily, we are all firing blanks!
1.) a CF may introduce "lens cast" (going from blue to yellow)
2.) the current version of C1's LCC will level out the color shift
(my last shot with CF was a year ago and that was C1 V4 something...)