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P65+ and 645DF arrive

tashley

Subscriber Member
Dear Tim

i know we are picking your brain....CLEAN it sometimes seems. However, you slipped in a small nuclear weapon; you RETURNED the S2? Was it just frustration with the sample variations and sensor problems or are we looking at an M8 situation or worse?

Has anyone else had the sensor problems? they tend to go in 'batches' that is, either the circuit bd or the silicon wafer gets contaminated; time for a major recall. Any idea what Leica is doing?

I can't risk my Ireland trip with only the P65+ and ALPA as backup. Maybe I will stick with my current (to remain un-named) kit until Leica sorts this out.

What about others? Guy/Jack, did you see any sensor problems (you didn't mention explicily, but many times they are condidtion specific; e.g. I had an issue with the P65+ in very hot sunny weather.

Any comment would be appreciated

regrads
Victor

PS Tim, glad the Hartblei is working out. I have a good example as well.

On the Hartblei camera, I played with (well, actually BOUGHT) a Truewide, and I am frustrated with the vignetting and the slow shutter. Both seem to be design issues. I may ask Keith to mill out motre as it turns out the Leica Modular 800mm DOES have a big enough image circle
Hi Victor,

I really think I just got a bad run, and tend to be picky too. I haven't heard a single other report of sensor issues, even from those that are most doubtful of the S2, and for me it was just one too many Mayfair traffic jam on a 'switch out' run. The S2 team seem to me (and I have spent a lot of time talking with them) to be a LOT more responsive than the M guys. I never had an issue that wasn't agreed with immediately and replaced as fast as I wanted but I did just decide to go with that good ol' Phase system that I don't enjoy using but which does deliver reliably in general. I am fairly sure that when the water has settled I will be back to the S system...

So you bought the Hartblei lens rather than the camera?

As for your trip... I would hire the S2 as you planned. Using it fully is such a valuable reference point and I had very few files from it that couldn't have been invisibly mended given a little time and effort. It truly is a lovely camera but it is a Bristol rather than a Mercedes...
 
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Hi Victor,

I became concerned after reading about Tim's unfortunate run with the S2. As a result, I have gone back through my S2 photos to date and have not been able to detect any of the sensor issues Tim ran into. Believe me, I am looking close now and will be for a while.

I agree with Tim, you should definitely plan to go ahead with your idea to take the S2 to Ireland. It will be an excellent way for you to get to know the camera in real world conditions.

Mark
 

gogopix

Subscriber
"....but it is a Bristol rather than a Mercedes... "

WRONG ANSWER....
i have driven Mercedes since 1973! :ROTFL:

Victor

PS What the hell is a Bristol?
 

David K

Workshop Member
Hard to believe that Tim had trouble with the S2 as he's generally so lucky with his camera gear. Tim, I hope you take this in the good natured way it's intended but if I owned a camera company I think I'd buy you one of my competitor's kits :) You have my sincere condolences for all the grief you've gone through with gear. The good news is that Leica seems to have done the right thing by you in taking the kit back. I sure hope they get whatever the issue is sorted out. I just sent my DMR in for repair (second time this year) and they were very nice about covering the cost under warranty even though the earlier repair was unrelated. In my experience they have excellent customer service, albeit a bit slower that one might hope for.
 

markowich

New member
tim,
unless the IQ (base iso) of the S2 is really poor, i had a sensor issue, too. for leica's sake i prefer to think the former rather than the latter.
mirror slap: i have zero problems with it on the H3DII 50, neither on my old H1 body.
peter


Hi Victor,

I really think I just got a bad run, and tend to be picky too. I haven't heard a single other report of sensor issues, even from those that are most doubtful of the S2, and for me it was just one too many Mayfair traffic jam on a 'switch out' run. The S2 team seem to me (and I have spent a lot of time talking with them) to be a LOT more responsive than the M guys. I never had an issue that wasn't agreed with immediately and replaced as fast as I wanted but I did just decide to go with that good ol' Phase system that I don't enjoy using but which does deliver reliably in general. I am fairly sure that when the water has settled I will be back to the S system...

So you bought the Hartblei lens rather than the camera?

As for your trip... I would hire the S2 as you planned. Using it fully is such a valuable reference point and I had very few files from it that couldn't have been invisibly mended given a little time and effort. It truly is a lovely camera but it is a Bristol rather than a Mercedes...
 

thomas

New member
I'm researching the new Hartblei cam at the moment, as well as the Sinar Artec - they both look really interesting!
are you going to replace your Cambo WRS with either the Hartblei or the arTec? If so... why?
AFAIK the Hartblei is limited WRT shift... basically shift is only provided with dedicated shift lenses (Hartblei/Canon TS) and I cannot imagine that corner sharpness will be great at large movements with your P65+. But maybe I'm wrong. Too, the image circles of the lenses in question are limited... I think for a P65+ those high rez lenses with really large image circles make sense (i.e. the upcoming "Super Digitar" 43mm + 28mm and the Digaron-W lenses).
With an arTec, of course, you could use all those lenses (resp. the Rodenstocks). The arTec is a great camera IMO. But it's not primarily designed for stitching more than 2 captures (though, of course, it's possible if you use movements on both the lens and the rear).

Interessting to read about your experiences with the S2. To be fair: one could face the same (or similar) trouble with all cameras/brands. However it shows how big the discrepancy between claims and reality is.

As to your feelings about the Mamiya bodies... I've no idea if you need the 645 camera for jobs or if you use it for pesonal fine art work or whatever. But as you are apparently so demanding WRT the haptic feeling, built quality, ergonomics etc. I wonder if you have ever handled a Contax? If you need a fast and reliable AF even in demanding lighting conditions the Contax is most likely not a good choice. But it is so nice and easy to handle, it has a really nice vertical grip, a waist level finder, you can exchange the screens fast and easy... and, of course, the lenses are still really good.
At least it's (still) worth a look...
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
are you going to replace your Cambo WRS with either the Hartblei or the arTec? If so... why?
AFAIK the Hartblei is limited WRT shift... basically shift is only provided with dedicated shift lenses (Hartblei/Canon TS) and I cannot imagine that corner sharpness will be great at large movements with your P65+. But maybe I'm wrong. Too, the image circles of the lenses in question are limited... I think for a P65+ those high rez lenses with really large image circles make sense (i.e. the upcoming "Super Digitar" 43mm + 28mm and the Digaron-W lenses).
With an arTec, of course, you could use all those lenses (resp. the Rodenstocks). The arTec is a great camera IMO. But it's not primarily designed for stitching more than 2 captures (though, of course, it's possible if you use movements on both the lens and the rear).

Interessting to read about your experiences with the S2. To be fair: one could face the same (or similar) trouble with all cameras/brands. However it shows how big the discrepancy between claims and reality is.

As to your feelings about the Mamiya bodies... I've no idea if you need the 645 camera for jobs or if you use it for pesonal fine art work or whatever. But as you are apparently so demanding WRT the haptic feeling, built quality, ergonomics etc. I wonder if you have ever handled a Contax? If you need a fast and reliable AF even in demanding lighting conditions the Contax is most likely not a good choice. But it is so nice and easy to handle, it has a really nice vertical grip, a waist level finder, you can exchange the screens fast and easy... and, of course, the lenses are still really good.
At least it's (still) worth a look...
Hi Thomas,

I would certainly try the Hatblei cam out first. Mr Reichmann at Lula was smitten with it using the 24TS from Canon but that was on a P40+ I think - however he seems to be hinting that these lenses were designed to cover a much larger image circle than you might imagine, and that there could be good reasons for that.

The key issue with the Hartblei and the Sinar is that you can focus the damned things without having to swap the back out for a GG. For shift, this is never a problem with the Cambo because I use a 35MM and F16 so everything is in focus. But I would like to use some tilts and some longer focal lengths with them for some very odd and selective focus effects (such as a forest where all the floor is in focus but trunks are rising into OOF) and this requires really accurate focus.

Regarding the S2, I'm not even p***d about it and Leica had such a good attitude. It's just that I bought it as an absolutely no hassle, elegant MF solution for certain uses and it turned out to be more of a hassle than I wanted to deal with and yes, similar levels of faults do seem to turn up with so many other brands - except for Phase, whose backs seem just to work.

As for the Phammy body, well ideally I would swap everything out for the contax if it weren't for the fact that my SLR style MF needs encompass some studio work and so it has to be able to focus really well with modelling lights. The Phammy does that now, and I'll get over the things I don't like. I only mentioned any of this because someone asked my opinion, it's not a deal-breaker for me or I wouldn't have done it, having originally shot the new and old bodies side by side in early October last year and knowing roughly what I'd be getting into. It's like the info console on my partner's Merc SL - you can't have the speed and distance read out in miles but the temperatures in Celcius, as most Brits want. It's maddening but there's nothing you can do about it!
:toocool:
 

thomas

New member
Hi Tim,

makes sense. Thanks!

yes, similar levels of faults do seem to turn up with so many other brands - except for Phase, whose backs seem just to work.
uhh, unfortunately I can't attest this for my Phase backs. I have quite a long list of shortcomings. In particular a number of sensor lines with (altogether 4) different backs. Although they didn't show up under the conditions I normally shoot under they were visible at higher ISO in OOF areas of the image. So they never stopped me from shooting but it's certainly something you won't live with when using such "high end" gear.
Other than sensor issues I did not have any issues... they just work. I had 2 or 3 sync errors using the tech camera (most likely user error) and 2 funky captures right before the battery went down.
With the Contax I have never had any trouble at all (although... some trouble when using recharchable batteries).
 

rhsu

New member
Tim...

Are we still talking about your POSH gear or your P.O.S. gear?:angel:

...you can't have the speed and distance read out in miles but the temperatures in Celcius, as most Brits want. It's maddening but there's nothing you can do about it!
:toocool:
...Good Lord... and in energy, is it BTU or KWJ?:ROTFL:

No rush with those images... just whenever you get off replying. I'm glad there are all good chaps with good humours ... luckily, we are all firing blanks!
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Tim...

Are we still talking about your POSH gear or your P.O.S. gear?:angel:



...Good Lord... and in energy, is it BTU or KWJ?:ROTFL:

No rush with those images... just whenever you get off replying. I'm glad there are all good chaps with good humours ... luckily, we are all firing blanks!
BRITISH thermal units! As for POSH, well, with me it's more Point and Shoot and yes they are mostly blanks!
 

rhsu

New member
BRITISH thermal units! As for POSH, well, with me it's more Point and Shoot and yes they are mostly blanks!
you guys aren't mad... the rest of the metric world are still selling their eggs by the dozen! - go work that out!:D
 

thomas

New member
A CF may really introduce "lens cast" and this one goes from blue to yellow. And if it is strong there is literally no way to correct it
for the sake of good order a correction here (after some chat with "EbsenHR").

1.) a CF may introduce "lens cast" (going from blue to yellow)
2.) the current version of C1's LCC will level out the color shift
(my last shot with CF was a year ago and that was C1 V4 something...)
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
Jack, I did this one for you since the chances of your physically getting to test my copy of the Hartblei are probably limited!

The frame was shot using 10mm of rise at ISO 50, F16 and 1/100th with focus made manually wide open on the semi circular hoarding in the mid-ground. C1 defaults were applied other than WB and the correct settings in the Lens Correction Tab for the shot, with CA, PF, Distortion and Sharpness falloff selected. This effectively interpolates the file to different cropped dimensions of 9068 by 6769. Both the small version posted here and the large one linked to are in Adobe RGB and the large one is FULL sized and 100% quality JPEG so it is 41mb but it really is worth a look.

This Hartblei is a gem. The results are not perfect but they are very impressive given what it cost me and how well my other glass is doing - and when it's not playing it straight as a simple rise/fall lens, its swings and tilts give creamy, dreamy effects. I love it. Every boy needs a good copy of this one in their kit bag!

Here's a small version:



Here's the link to the large version:
http://files.me.com/tashley1/in12p5

Best

Tim
Super shot and quality file (the full-size original). The left side looks very slightly less sharp than the right, but its marginal. Impressive :D

Quentin
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Super shot and quality file (the full-size original). The left side looks very slightly less sharp than the right, but its marginal. Impressive :D

Quentin
Thank you Quentin - and how nice to see you here!

This Hartblei thingie is a marvellous piece of 'bang for your buck'...

Best

Tim
 
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