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A few P30+ questions

tjv

Active member
What do people think about Leaf backs in the current climate?

I'm thinking specifically about the Leaf Aptus-II 7, 33mp back with 1.1 crop. I like the idea of the larger chip but have no idea what the back costs compared to the Phase offerings and what the performance is life.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Hooray! for Pentax. Whenever it gets to the US market, it'll provide an entry level option into MFD for a lot of people who insist on buying new, but couldn't afford a current new MFD kit from Mamiya/Phase/Leaf or Hasselblad. :thumbs:

However, I think it'll have little to no effect on current customers of current systems. Beyond all the user expectations already established and mentioned by Guy and others, I doubt there are very many current MFD users willing to take a bath on their entire system investment to move to Pentax. Some may do it for a S2, because it's a Leica and is truly sexy and exclusive with unquestioned optics, but not many of those either ... as the cost of current system loss added the cost of the new system is absolutely ferocious.

Tim, depending on your actual applications, I wouldn't be put off by the 1.3X crop factor at all. IMO, these backs are the right choice for people, social documentary, and street photography ... especially if you tend toward available light. They are fast, offer a bit better ISO performance, and 28mm on them is wider than you may think.

I think the P30+ is exactly the right choice given your criteria and budget. Mamiya bodies are plentiful as are many of the lenses, and performance/software/service/support is not in question at all.

Here's my personal analysis: my subject matter criteria parallels your very closely, except I use a bit more strobe lighting than you. I went back into my files to compare usage between my H3D-II/31 (similar to the P30+), and H3D-II/39 (similar to the P45+). By far, the 31 meg 1.3X crop camera was the most used ... (which is why my 39 only has 2900 shots on it :eek:). I have action shots from the H3D-II/31 that clients enlarged to 5 feet wide for trade show displays and they were spectacular!

Now my paying work has shifted away from studio/product, to even more people/event/portrait/fashion. So I cancelled my order for a H4/60, and next week should take delivery of my new 1.3X crop H4D/40 :thumbup: Had I not had the previous experience it would've been a less clear move for me ... not to mention that in the end, this upgrade cost me $5,000. instead of $19,000. :shocked:

-Marc
 
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tjv

Active member
Marc, I think if I could afford it the H4D/40 would be on my most wanted list. It looks like a great improvement on previous models and I like many things about the "closed system," actually.

Seems where ever I ask, everyone says P30+ all the way though. Value for money and reliability rules these days.

T
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hooray! for Pentax. Whenever it gets to the US market, it'll provide an entry level option into MFD for a lot of people who insist on buying new, but couldn't afford a current new MFD kit from Mamiya/Phase/Leaf or Hasselblad. :thumbs:

However, I think it'll have little to no effect on current customers of current systems. Beyond all the user expectations already established and mentioned by Guy and others, I doubt there are very many current MFD users willing to take a bath on their entire system investment to move to Pentax. Some may do it for a S2, because it's a Leica and is truly sexy and exclusive with unquestioned optics, but not many of those either ... as the cost of current system loss added the cost of the new system is absolutely ferocious.

Tim, depending on your actual applications, I wouldn't be put off by the 1.3X crop factor at all. IMO, these backs are the right choice for people, social documentary, and street photography ... especially if you tend toward available light. They are fast, offer a bit better ISO performance, and 28mm on them is wider than you may think.

I think the P30+ is exactly the right choice given your criteria and budget. Mamiya bodies are plentiful as are many of the lenses, and performance/software/service/support is not in question at all.

Here's my personal analysis: my subject matter criteria parallels your very closely, except I use a bit more strobe lighting than you. I went back into my files to compare usage between my H3D-II/31 (similar to the P30+), and H3D-II/39 (similar to the P45+). By far, the 31 meg 1.3X crop camera was the most used ... (which is why my 39 only has 2900 shots on it :eek:). I have action shots from the H3D-II/31 that clients enlarged to 5 feet wide for trade show displays and they were spectacular!

Now my paying work has shifted away from studio/product, to even more people/event/portrait/fashion. So I cancelled my order for a H4/60, and next week should take delivery of my new 1.3X crop H4D/40 :thumbup: Had I not had the previous experience it would've been a less clear move for me ... not to mention that in the end, this upgrade cost me $5,000. instead of $19,000. :shocked:

-Marc

I'm shocked but I also think it was a good choice. Since many things have shifted for you having a 40mpx will be perfect. It has plenty of horsepower and I think it will be more usable for what you are doing now. Good call
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Marc, I think if I could afford it the H4D/40 would be on my most wanted list. It looks like a great improvement on previous models and I like many things about the "closed system," actually.

Seems where ever I ask, everyone says P30+ all the way though. Value for money and reliability rules these days.

T
Have to say it was a very long and hard decision for me which is rare plus I tested the P40 3 times before I actually traded up from the P30+ to the P40+. That should give you some indication how good the P30+ is. In the end i was after Sensor Plus mostly instead of investing in a Nikon which made more sense to me is having one solid system that did the work of two essentially for what I do.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I'm shocked but I also think it was a good choice. Since many things have shifted for you having a 40mpx will be perfect. It has plenty of horsepower and I think it will be more usable for what you are doing now. Good call
Thanks Guy, your posts about 40 meg solutions, and seeing some of the results with the H4D/40 here on Get Dpi, made the move easier.

Ideally, I'd like to have both ... but in these times there simply is no way to indulge that extravagance ... besides I spent all the "extravagance cash" on building the ultimate Leica M9 kit, which I also have more use for ... or so I rationalize :ROTFL:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Nice to hear from folks that use this stuff and see results that makes sense. I agree it helps the buying decision. I know the folks here on this forum want to help and steer folks in the right direction. This is a lot of money and mistakes are deadly.
 

f8orbust

Active member
Until the Pentax 645D actually makes it to the US, I still consider it vaporware. To me, the 645D is more comparable to the Leica S2, except that the Leica S2 is available now.

Because I already use an interchangeable back system, I have absolutely no interest in cameras like the 645D or S2. (though I invite more MF Digital manufacturers to join in the fun)

Phase MFDBs have a solid history of performance. And rather than guessing about future Pentax 645D *what ifs*, the Phase P30+ is a system that you can use right now--today.
That Pentax have chosen to release it in Japan before the US is only to be expected. As others have correctly pointed out, Phase have an established support/retail network here, Pentax don't. But they do in Japan. So, for those who don't want to switch the back between cameras (and anybody considering a P30+ isn't going to be using it on a tech camera - at least not with shifts), and are looking to move into MFD, it would be sensible to consider the 645D when it appears in a couple of months time. Since Japan is a significant market for Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad, when the P645D appears they're going to have to adjust their pricing structure in order to protect their market share - which will be good for anyone, anywhere considering purchasing a competing Phase/Leaf back, such as the P30+, P40+ or Aptus II-8.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
Tim

Thought I’d jump in this conversation re the P30+ as I used one for well over a year shooting landscape and feel that I’d still be using it today were it not for the fact that I switched from a 645 body to a technical camera (Cambo WRS).

My first taste of what a P30 could do was a short visit by Ken when he and I shot slot canyons in Page AZ. Ken was kind enough to let me use it and I ended up ordering a P30+ shortly afterwards. We also coined the term if you touch it you buy it.

I used the P30+ in near blinding snow storms at the Grand Canyon, dust storms of the desert and took it with me to Alaska and past the Artic Circle without a moment’s trouble. I used the P30+ coupled with the Mamiya 28mm lens for great images. One of my best images is a two-shot pano using a Mamiya 35mm lens printed to 30x60.

It would a little more difficult for me now to choose between a P30+ and a P40 if I were in the same situation as I was then. I’ve got the history with the P30+ so I tend to lean towards that while at the same time I see and read what Guy has been able to do with the P40.

These are just a few of my thoughts on the P30+ while waiting for a second cup of coffee.

Don

Wanted to add these thoughts as well.

At the end of the day for me, I'm only interested in a rock solid system that can be used day in, day out without any drama. I think Mamiya / Phase is proven in this way.
Totally agree with you. This system is rock solid and proven in many ways by many people. I could say the same for Dave Gallagher and Capture Integration but I don’t want to give him too big a head. :D

The Pentax may very well become a rock solid system however the question is when….
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
That Pentax have chosen to release it in Japan before the US is only to be expected. As others have correctly pointed out, Phase have an established support/retail network here, Pentax don't. But they do in Japan. So, for those who don't want to switch the back between cameras (and anybody considering a P30+ isn't going to be using it on a tech camera - at least not with shifts), and are looking to move into MFD, it would be sensible to consider the 645D when it appears in a couple of months time. Since Japan is a significant market for Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad, when the P645D appears they're going to have to adjust their pricing structure in order to protect their market share - which will be good for anyone, anywhere considering purchasing a competing Phase/Leaf back, such as the P30+, P40+ or Aptus II-8.
It's really hard to second guess what Phase or Hassy will do. I still don't see systems such as the Leica S2 or Pentax 645D as truly comparable to interchangeable back systems. They offer similar formats, but are very very differrent. Maybe we'll see Phase reintroduce the Mamiya ZD (the way it should be) if and when the 645D hits US shores.... It would have a line of D series lenses ready to go too. Leaf shutter even. Now that would be interesting.

As far as I can tell, both Leica and Pentax have only one lens available (Leica needs to release the others...). Sure you may be able to use your old Pentax mount lenses on the 645D, but I'm not so sure they'll hold up well to the new 6 micron sensors.... Both the S2 and Pentax 645D (still vaporware) are not truly mature systems, whereas Phase and Hassy both are established with lenses to match. The Leica S2 is way expensive but pretty. The Pentax 645D is inexpensive, but butt-ugly. Fingers-crossed it has a good personality... :LOL:
 
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kdphotography

Well-known member
Have to say it was a very long and hard decision for me which is rare plus I tested the P40 3 times before I actually traded up from the P30+ to the P40+. ....
Hell, Guy. We all knew the P40+ was the right MFDB for you months before you pulled the trigger! :ROTFL:
 

neil

New member
P30+ questions - People just will not stand still...

P30+ People just will not stand still...

Read this post a couple of days ago so pulled the P30+ off the shelf and got outside with it.

The only problem I had was the people would just not stand still.

Mamiya Zoom 105-210mm , Iso 100, 1 second, F16 taken around dusk.




You can even see the leaves on the trees 100 meters away.



This amazed me that you can actually see into the cafe and the people sat at the tables.



Have had a lot of success with p30+. It just works without any issues.

Regards

Neil
 

tjv

Active member
Yeah, I'm pretty sold on this back. Now just gotta find a way to keep shooting on film, process AND save the money for the back. It has got to be done. I can't keep justifying the crazy costs of film processing in this country.
 

f8orbust

Active member
...the Pentax 645D is inexpensive, but butt-ugly...
Ah, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder - not that I really spend much time thinking about the aesthetics of a camera - as Mike Johnston reveals in today's post ('The five most desirable cameras on the planet') from the Online Photographer:

Pentax 645D. This list originally just had four cameras on it. I had to add this one—forced to—even though it's not out yet and isn't planned be exported to Europe and America in any case. This body style and its wonderful controls have been burnished to perfection over several generations, and, assuming the sensor measures up, this thing on paper looks like the coolest camera ever made. Anyway the key word in this post is "desirable," and I want one.

Nice to see the 645D is generating interest. I hear the first reviews should be appearing over the next couple of weeks - look forward to reading them. Contrary to what Mike says, it can be ordered in the US and Europe, though not yet through Pentax dealers. Still, even Phase had to start somewhere, right?
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
.... The Leica S2 is way expensive but pretty. The Pentax 645D is inexpensive, but butt-ugly. Fingers-crossed it has a good personality... :LOL:


Well, I've never really been a butt-man, but I guess it's alright as long as it has a nice personality. :p
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
an order placed ......

all hope has been abandoned.....

Just too easy with a dealer coming to Houston, and a back that needed upgraded.

The planets have aligned correctly, and this evening should be my last shoot with the ZD.

I will NOT miss the AFD-II not finding the film back, and the absolute need to get my 3rd small gridded strobe/hair light exposed spot on!

This was one of the threads that tipped the balance.

Of course those evil Phase One dealers will be bringing an IQ back with them :poke:

Dave
 
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