H2 or Hy6???

[gogopix]

I have heard everything from the next HB, to "it's plastic and sags with long lenses" about the Hy6.

I am looking for an alternate platform, for both camera and back. What I want is an opportunity to have HC lenses OR Rollei'Schneider. Can't have both.

BUT, there is so much mis information and ok, you can rent, but not here on the Potomac.

So, who has real experience (and of course I will find some way to try) but there is nothing like having forum friends push you down the RIGHT slippery slope

so....??

Victor

PS: If you feel that a major league thumbs down will get you banned, just email me. :ROTFL:

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Did you really mean H2? Do you want to be excluded from using the 28mm lens and anything else Hasselblad decides to lock out in future?

Which back are you looking at? That could decide it.

 

[gogopix]

well with the HB 3II it is a closed system, so the back just goes there. You are right that it locks out future HCD II lenses (the "notched" ones)

Based on my favourable reaction to your sample, I was thinking Hy6 Sinar with alternate Contax adapter.

I though H2 based on cost and also that Sinar would not work on the H3.

To buy into thee H3 isnt necessarily bad, it is just restrictive; you wind up in the Fuji, sorry, I mean HB camp forever.

Maybe not such a bad camp!

Graham, are you thinking that is where you will wind up?

What about the H3. Again, some flaming -- "Oh its just more japanese canon-like lenses, platic, bulky and very techy but looks flat!

Yes, those are almost quotes I have heard.

and just so I get it out of my system, the more I look at the new Nikon stuff, and images, the less I like it. It just doesn't have staying power. Individually, looks good, occassionally great.. and then.. disappointment

I don't want to drop 30,000 and feel that way about my next MF system.

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Victor, I will end up with a Hy6 some day. I have the back and the lenses already, and the Hy6 is the only system out there which will let you use the WLF and rotate the back. This is how I would like to work. There are other nice things about the Hy6 too

 

[gogopix]

Thank you for your response. That is one major advantage of the Sinar, that it can be upgraded and used across platforms. It is a major difference from the HB H3D approach that locks one in, albeit to a fine, maybe the best system. for some.

What startles me is the vehemence of some of the negatives; 'plastically' for Hy6 and 'flat, uninteresting glass' for the H3D. These can't be right. But then, I have seen " the AF on the Contax s_cks" and is merely slow (and sometimes AF on wrong thing!). No system is perfect.

So I await other notions from peropl and will try to rent each (not having luck yet with either)

 

[thsinar]

I would really try to hold and handle a Sinar Hy6: I don't think you will have the feeling of "plasticity".

Best regards,
Thierry

What startles me is the vehemence of some of the negatives; 'plastically' for Hy6 ....

No system is perfect.

So I await other notions from peropl and will try to rent each (not having luck yet with either)

 

[PeterA]

...

To buy into thee H3 isnt necessarily bad, it is just restrictive; you wind up in the Fuji, sorry, I mean HB camp forever......

What about the H3. Again, some flaming -- "Oh its just more japanese canon-like lenses, platic, bulky and very techy but looks flat!

Yes, those are almost quotes I have heard...

Victor - you might like to consider the Hasselblad CF back range - which you can buy a range of mounting plates to use with H or Mamiya(s) or Contax or View cameras or Fuji..etc etc..follow the link below and see dot point three in column two in tech specs..

http://www.hasselblad.com/products/backs/cf-and-cf-ms.aspx

Very funny about H lenses - ever tried them?

Petey:angel:

 

[David K]

David Klepacki should be able to help here, and I will post my impressions on the Hy6 in a few days. I share Graham's preference to work with WLF and rotating back... it's why I got into the RZ system (now gone in anticipation of working this way with Hy6). Another feature that appealed to me with the Hy6 was that metering was done in the body and not the finder (hope I have this right). This has always been a problem for me when shooting Contax with the WLF which only permits spot metering. Works fine in the studio with a light meter but not so good outdoors unless metering manually. As for plastic... get yours ready whichever way you decide to go

 

[Woody Campbell]

Victor -

My decision on this topic was made for me when I found a like-new H3D 39 at Kurland for $18k. I have the camera, back, 80mm and 28mm. A couple of more lenses are on the way, including a legacy V system 40. I'm in the process of selling most of my Canon gear. Of course I'll keep the Leicas.

The advantages of the closed platform is wonderful end-to-end integration - this has a positive impact on IQ because proprietary features in the raw conversion software do a good job of color management and compensating for lens quirks. This also means that everything works as it should and controls are logical. Hasselblads are in wide use commercially so they are well-supported on forums like this and in the secondary market. My experience with a Hasselblad Imacon scanner suggests that the manufacturer's support is excellent. The system gives you access to literally tons of V system CZ glass (most of which probably has difficulty with the transition to digital), and an upgrade path. The Fuji glass, based on the two samples I have, is excellent.

The disadvantages are obvious - you become a captive customer, both economically and in terms of the manufacturer's commitment to support the system.

Here is an image shot yesterday in Central Park. It's a stitch of two frames shot with the 80 at ISO 200, 1/320 at f6.3, handheld. File dimensions are 7340 x 9200. Note that the files from this back are very "deep", tolerating intense manipulation, and requiring very high sharpening (my default on conversion is 300% r=1!). It's hard to convey what it's like working with these files at web resolution. The difference in sharpness between the background and foreground is probably a DOF issue - it gets very thin with this large sensor. The crops look slightly over-sharpened on the web but the file looks right when it's printed on 24x30 inch Harmon Gloss FB.

Full image:
View attachment 3376

Crops:
View attachment 3377


View attachment 3378


View attachment 3379

 

[gogopix]

Woody

Thank you for your comments and for the images. even small jpgs do not lie; those are impressive. I am particularly impressed by something I find important; the 'dimensionalty' I hate to say 3-D since that has become a term in disrepute. However, I call it the "reach in" feeling.

DO you find this with the HC glass in general?>

That said, I was also impressed by Graham's image from a Rollei/SInar. Detailed, sharp yet smooth and unforced looking.

Can't spend 30K (too bad I didnt see the H3D 39 at Kuland; I have gotten a lot of good stuff from eli-most recently near new 90mm and 135 for my M)

Thx again.

What about the 'feel' of the HB? H3? I use my Contax for travel and it is destined mostly to sit on a tripod, but I would like to know its 'travelability"

regards
Victor

PS YES, I must ck out the H backs. This is getting more confusing!

 

[BJNY]

"it's plastic and sags with long lenses" about the Hy6.

It doesn't sag or flex with the 180mm 2.8 AF-D.
I checked this out yesterday at a Leaf AFi event.

 

[gogopix]

It doesn't sag or flex with the 180mm 2.8 AF-D.
I checked this out yesterday at a Leaf AFi event.

How was it in your hand?
any time soon there will be someone in DC area? (like Penn camera?)

 

[David Klepacki]

Victor, as you know I am a huge Contax 645 fan, like yourself. It is my go-to camera when I need to travel super light or need higher shutter speeds outdoors.

Otherwise, the Hy6 is my camera of choice. The AF is indeed faster, but the ergonomics are just so much better. The rotating/revolving back options are a real winner. Having to rotate a heavy camera like the H3D between portrait and landscape can really take its toll on your hands for how long you can continue to hold the system. Yes, the Hy6 has plastic, but it is well engineered and it keeps the weight down (the Hasselblad H3D body is currently the heaviest of all 645 and 66 cameras). For strobe work, the 1/1000 sync capability cannot be beat.

In fact, if the Hy6 camera also had a focal plane shutter, I would then have no need for any other camera system, except for special purposes like when movements are needed.

 

[gogopix]

And you are using the sinar or leaf back?
(I should pay more attention, but this way I can pump you on how you like the back too!

do i read correctly that the hasselblad is 1/800 top speed?

how fast is the focal plane on the Hy6? for wildlife and motion 1/1000+ is important (esp with a fast HB lens, to mix metaphors a bit

 

[Graham Mitchell]

how fast is the focal plane on the Hy6? for wildlife and motion 1/1000+ is important (esp with a fast HB lens, to mix metaphors a bit

There is no focal plane shutter on the Hy6. The PQS lenses have a max speed of 1/1000.

 

[David Klepacki]

And you are using the sinar or leaf back?
(I should pay more attention, but this way I can pump you on how you like the back too!

do i read correctly that the hasselblad is 1/800 top speed?

how fast is the focal plane on the Hy6? for wildlife and motion 1/1000+ is important (esp with a fast HB lens, to mix metaphors a bit

None of the Hasselblad H cameras can shoot faster than 1/800, period.

Boy, do I WISH the Hy6 had a focal plane shutter, but it does not. Like the Hasselblad, it only offers you a camera where the shutter is only a leaf shutter in the lens. Both Schneider and Zeiss make the lenses for the Hy6. The Zeiss lenses have a maximum lens shutter speed of 1/500, whereas the Schneider lenses have two versions: one that can go to 1/500 (PQ type) and others than can go to 1/1000 (PQS type). So, similar to the Hasseblad H, the Hy6 is limited to the lesser shutter speeds in the lenses than the Contax 645, which has a focal plane shutter in the camera body (up to 1/4000).

So, now you should see why I have two basic camera systems: the Contax 645 when a focal plane shutter is needed, and the Hy6 for everything else.

As for the eMotion 75LV back, of course I love it, or I would not have purchased it. All of these backs are so subtly different, it is really a tough choice. I absolutely love the color rendition of the Sinar, but remember there is nothing more subjective than color. As I have stated many times on this forum, the real advantage for me is the open-camera system of these backs, which especially includes the Hasselblad 200 series, since I prefer the look of the Zeiss FE glass, like the 110/2 and 300/2.8. Ironically, the Hasselblad CF backs do not support these cameras.

 

[Woody Campbell]

Victor - I only have the HC 28 and 80 for now. They both have excellent presence and micro contrast. I don't find any need to clarity slider in LR (if Vibrance is the Velvia slider then Clarity is the "fix the 1dh II" slider). I'll post when I have more experience.

In terms of how it feels in my hands - well it's a handful. The 50-110 zoom (which I'm not getting) is simply gigantic, as is the 120 macro. In the MF world the best thing to do is find a dealer who has what you're looking for and try it - even if this means getting on a plane. This is a serious commitment. I prefer a Leica in my hands, at least until I see the H3D files.

 

[David Klepacki]

Leaf, like the Hasselblad H3d, is a closed system. So, if you ever wanted to use a different camera for anything, you would be forced to obtain another back for it.

With the Sinar system, I can use any camera with only the incremental investment of only a few adapters. I now think of a camera body as only a kind of adapter, and sometimes only use it for one lens in its whole system. For example, if you need a 28mm, shoot with a Mamiya, if you need a 300/2.8 shoot with the Hasselblad 203, if you need 1/1000 flash sync shoot with the Hy6, ...etc.... all with the same digital back. Buying adapters and camera bodies makes you more flexible and is a much better use of your money that buying another digital back.

The advantage is also in the workflow. If you had to use all these cameras with different backs and their own respective software, you would be going crazy. With a single back, all of these images from different camera systems can be processed in an identical workflow. So, if you value your time, this is a no brainer.

 

[fotografz]

Woody

Thank you for your comments and for the images. even small jpgs do not lie; those are impressive. I am particularly impressed by something I find important; the 'dimensionalty' I hate to say 3-D since that has become a term in disrepute. However, I call it the "reach in" feeling.

DO you find this with the HC glass in general?>

That said, I was also impressed by Graham's image from a Rollei/SInar. Detailed, sharp yet smooth and unforced looking.

Can't spend 30K (too bad I didnt see the H3D 39 at Kuland; I have gotten a lot of good stuff from eli-most recently near new 90mm and 135 for my M)

Thx again.

What about the 'feel' of the HB? H3? I use my Contax for travel and it is destined mostly to sit on a tripod, but I would like to know its 'travelability"

regards
Victor

PS YES, I must ck out the H backs. This is getting more confusing!

I won't get into a pissing contest about what is better ... they are all excellent. My preference is for a totally integrated system camera.

I can speak to how the H3D travels and how it handles, because I do it all the time. I fly to shoot out of town weddings, and have taken it to Miami, California ... all over the place. I pack a Kata bag with an Insert Trolly roller that's all small enough to fit under a airline seat ... but holds the H3D-II/39, four lenses including a 28, 50. 110, and 150 ... plus a 1.7X, multiple grip batteries, 2 chargers, filters and CF cards ... and sometimes a 1000 shot FW800 Image Bank. It's easier to travel with than my Canon system.

Handling is superb. The deeply recessed integrated handle provides a very secure grip, and all the key controls are at your finger tips without having to take your eye from the view finder. For me, moving from a Contax 645 to the H camera was a very easy transition when it came to actual shooting senarios.

 

[DougDolde]

Which Kata bag for the H3D? I have one for my MacBook Pro and think it's a great bag, very well designed and constructed.