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H2 or Hy6???

David Klepacki

New member
Sorry David, but it sounds like some sort of patonizing slight towards the H/C lenses again ... like they were not well corrected and need the software.

This is patiently untrue, the H/C lens line up is already highly corrected and well thought of amongst one heck of lot of demanding professional photographers doing one heck of a lot of highly visable commercial and artistic work ... work done prior to the advent of DAC corrections being recently added to the software BTW.

I've run controlled tests between H/C lenses and their Zeiss CFi or CFE counterparts, and as often as not, the H/C outperformed the Zeiss. But no lens is ever perfect, there is always some compromise ... especially at the wide angle end. The thought behind the DAC corrections is to map the compromises and aid in getting them closer to being perfect in terms of Distortion and CA especially as it applies to the current state and limitations of digital capture.

This is not a unique nor exclusive idea. For example firmware and software solutions are used to correct vignetting inherent in even the very best wide-angle optics which usually required very expensive center filters to correct the issue ... Leica being one of them.

Now it IS true that there are optics that are super highly corrected right from the get go, but they don't reside in any MF lens line-up I've seen yet. They are Digital APO view camera lenses from Schneider and Rodenstock. No moving elements and bellows focusing helps eliminate many compromises in lens design.

The net result is that a $1,500. lens outperforms a $6,000. MF equvilant lens by a mile. There are mobile cameras that allow use of these optics without the bulk of a view camera ... as Peter A and others have aptly demonstrated with their ALPAs ... or other less expensive mobile cameras sporting Digitar view lenses.

Horses for courses.
Marc, I am trying my hardest to be objective, but as you can see we both are biased from our independent experiences. I sincerely do not mean to be patronizing to anyone. In fact, one of the posts above summed up the situation beautifully with the example of the wide angle 28mm HC lens. Such a lens would be impossible to design with optical correction only. So, indeed software correction has tremendous value, especially for the wides.

I was only trying to clarify my preference for lens corrections in the lenses themselves, whenever possible. Contrary to your claim, there are many MF lenses that are super highly corrected from the get go:

Rollei Schneider APO-Symar 90/4
Rollei Schneider APO-Symar 150/4.6
Rollei Schneider APO-Tele-Xenar 300/4
Contax Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 45-90/4.5 (at 65-75, no distortion, no CA, no vign.)
Contax Zeiss APO-Makro-Planar 120/4
Contax Zeiss Tele-Apo-Tessar 350/4
Sinar Zeiss Digital AF Planar 120/4
Mamiya 645 APO 300/2.8
Mamiya 645 APO 300/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 210/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 250/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 350/5.6
Mamiya RZ APO 500/6
Hasselblad Sonnar Superachromat 250/5.6
Hasselblad Tele-Superachromat 350/5.6 (and APO-Mutar 1.4x)
Hasselblad Tele-Apotessar 500/8
Hasselblad Tele-Superachromat 300/2.8 with APO-Mutar 1.7x

In addition, several of the excellent Digital APO lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider can indeed be used on MF cameras with focal plane shutters like Mamiya and Contax (not possible with H3D/II or Hy6). Rodenstock will even provide the helicoids to do this. Of course, the flange focal distance must be within the range of the camera to get infinity focus. For example, the following lenses can be used easily on the Contax 645 (or Mamiya):

Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 100/4
Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 180/5.6
Most Schneider APO-Digitar lenses at 100mm or longer

Again, this all ties into why my system is based on a single Sinar back (to enjoy such lenses on multiple camera systems), so that I can use a focal plane shutter camera in addition to my Hy6 with the same DNG workflow.

BTW, except for the Superachromat lenses, these lenses do not cost $6000. Many of the lenses listed above can be found for much less on the used market. In fact, one of the most corrected lenses from the list above is the Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 100/4 which sells brand new for only $1700.
 

David Klepacki

New member
Ok, based on the weight discussion here, and the fact that the H3D has an adapter for the Alpa (I think ) The H3D II has taken over top position. Yet to be handled of course!

There is one other advantage, the MS version. This provide the potentioal for incredible resolution in long range landscape and Architecture. Better than rotating for me.

I see no downside (except $$$) for the MS. I believe same form factor. It is not likely to be much heavier (though that will depend on the technology used for the 4 cell shift)

From an IQ factor also a few more MP (since the 74LV is what I would put on the Hy6, oh maybe I am really talking the SINAR Hy6 set)

Of course, there is the live view issue-HB doesn't have it. Yet I dont even use a ground glass with alpa, I use range est and lens is well calibrated (for WA anyway)

SOOOOO...what about the LV guys?

1. Will Hb have it?
2 Does it matter?
3. Is MS THAT much better (example are quite impressive MUCH more improvement than 25MP to 39MP)
4. Will an upgrade to 60MP sinar blow that away?


This is a VERY rich compendium on top MF; this thread has people who actually use and know about these systems:salute:

say, where's PeterA?

regards
Victor
I also have a MS back (but Sinar, of course). I can tell you that a MS image beats a SS image from any single shot back in terms of image quality. There are no interpolation artifacts to deal with, no false colors, and all edges are highly defined.

The downside is that it is not that appropriate for outdoor shooting. Even the slightest vibration during exposure (like someone curious walking behind you) can be enough to disturb the entire image. There is always some wind, which is enough to destroy the fine details in many cases. I am not saying that it is impossible, but you will need a heavy/stable rig, combined with a completely still environment. For studio product or copy work, or indoor architecture, it is pretty much unbeatable.
 

gogopix

Subscriber
So, I learn HB has live preview, but also sinar has MS but that's am old back, yes? does the 74LV have a MS capability or are you talking about the 54 that Son has?

Getting tight again;

lets review the bidding

Glass: Hy6 has is cold with Rollei glass, but IQ from what I see of HC is really impressive (though not comparable. NEED MORE :D How about a HB RAW from somebody?? Marc, are you willing to semd an out take? half mark to H6

Sensor; a wash. HB has a little adv with 39 vs 33 MP but not significant. Half mark to H3

Capture; sinar had LV, noew seems HB has as well. HB had MS, now seems Sinar has as well, but not sure its the 33MP untethered. no marks

Processing; Sinar has RAW RAW, and HB has supercalifragalisticwhoopieDACandapoinsilicowhatchamacallits!! I give it a tie :D no marks

Handling; open, but HB is 645 and H6 is 6x6. half mark (tentaive) to H3.

So, only the handling separates,, and if we gave full marks it would be half mark out of 5-10 score total so REALLY close. (with one switch in dominance thinking already.

This thread may go down as a real rival to the monster at the "TBUS" (to be unnamed site; Imgetting tired of saying that. Can I just abbreviate FM as in 'former monster' the second word applying , as you wish, to sites, threads,..... or ownres:eek: ) :ROTFL:

But I am amazed as the breath of knowledge an detail here; this far exceeds an thread I have seen over the years at Photonet, Galbraith, LL and a few select sites) (though I am sure there are several 'secreet societies I havent even heard of, much less been invited to. :angel:

so, hope everyone else is learning as much as I, but then I do have 30-40k riding on it!

regards
Victor
 

gogopix

Subscriber
Dear DavidK
just noticed the Hb lenses for Hy6. How is done? a synch cord to the lens? or is there an adapter? on HB bodies, triggering these lenses was a PITA, and if you didnt cock right, and didnt have the special widget to fix the body....
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Hi David,

Sorry for my late reply: I have been traveling.

yes, there is a user manual for the eMotion 54 V / 75 & 75 LV: you can download all from our webpage (www.sinarcameras.com), unter "Downloads" ---> "User Instructions". But you need to be registered in the "Sinar Owners' Group", which takes a few minutes and provides you automatically a "User Name" and "Password" to access.

Anyway, I'll try to attach this manual here, as a .pdf file

Best regards,
Thierry

Well tomorrow I get to shoot with my friend's H3DII-39 and my friend gets to shoot with my Sinar e75. Should be interesting.

@ Thierry,

Is there a user manual for the e75 somewhere ?
 
T

thsinar

Guest
Dear Victor,

see my answers/remarks below your text.

best regards,
Thierry

... but also sinar has MS but that's am old back, yes? does the 74LV have a MS capability or are you talking about the 54 that Son has?
Sinar has 2 Multishot backs: the Sinarback 54 H (22 MPx with 1-, 4- and 16-shot modes) and the Sinarback eVolution 75 H (33 MPx with 1- and 4-shot modes).

Sensor; a wash. HB has a little adv with 39 vs 33 MP but not significant. Half mark to H3
A 33 MPx or 39 MPx does not make a difference in multi-shot mode: already when shooting with a 33 Mpx sensor with the 4-shot, one reaches the limits of the lenses' resolution. Going from 33 to 39 MPx will not improve anything, but simply give you larger files.

Capture; sinar had LV, noew seems HB has as well. HB had MS, now seems Sinar has as well, but not sure its the 33MP untethered. no marks
Sinar has Live Video with ANY digital back, included the eMotion backs (54 LV and 75 LV, where LV stands for Live Video), so yes, also untethered.

Processing; Sinar has RAW RAW,
With Sinar you have the possibility to save the RAWs (absolute raws) as well as DNGs (then export TIF or JPG or continue with DNG, of course).
 

fotografz

Well-known member
So, I learn HB has live preview, but also sinar has MS but that's am old back, yes? does the 74LV have a MS capability or are you talking about the 54 that Son has?

Getting tight again;

lets review the bidding

Glass: Hy6 has is cold with Rollei glass, but IQ from what I see of HC is really impressive (though not comparable. NEED MORE :D How about a HB RAW from somebody?? Marc, are you willing to semd an out take? half mark to H6

Sensor; a wash. HB has a little adv with 39 vs 33 MP but not significant. Half mark to H3

Capture; sinar had LV, noew seems HB has as well. HB had MS, now seems Sinar has as well, but not sure its the 33MP untethered. no marks

Processing; Sinar has RAW RAW, and HB has supercalifragalisticwhoopieDACandapoinsilicowhatchamacallits!! I give it a tie :D no marks

Handling; open, but HB is 645 and H6 is 6x6. half mark (tentaive) to H3.

So, only the handling separates,, and if we gave full marks it would be half mark out of 5-10 score total so REALLY close. (with one switch in dominance thinking already.

This thread may go down as a real rival to the monster at the "TBUS" (to be unnamed site; Imgetting tired of saying that. Can I just abbreviate FM as in 'former monster' the second word applying , as you wish, to sites, threads,..... or ownres:eek: ) :ROTFL:

But I am amazed as the breath of knowledge an detail here; this far exceeds an thread I have seen over the years at Photonet, Galbraith, LL and a few select sites) (though I am sure there are several 'secreet societies I havent even heard of, much less been invited to. :angel:

so, hope everyone else is learning as much as I, but then I do have 30-40k riding on it!

regards
Victor
Victor, I think you will have more than $30-40K riding on any MF decision in the areas you are contemplating.

Assuming you are building from ground zero, and are looking at a system approach, $50-60K+ is more likely.

IMO, the comparisons and criteria that have been debated here have left out much of what is important to the decision making process most photographers apply ... intended use & application, plus where they are now with existing gear.

Many shooters come to the point of decision with baggage in tow. Some have multiple camera systems with a range of prefered optics across multiple camera platforms. Others come with a full system from a prefered MF camera platform plus a few other format needs (i.e., view camera.)

From what I can tell, David is in the former camp, and I am now in the latter... (prior to committing more to the H system, I was in David's camp so I understand his preferences.)

My more recent history was one of a slow build. An Imacon 96C on a Leaf Shutter Hasselblad V system I already owned, and a Kodak back on a focal plane shutter Contax 645. Kodak abandoned MF backs, and Kyocera abandoned the Contax 645, so I sold both.

Hasselblad provided a generous policy of upgrades, so it was an easier decision to go to the H which IMO was very similar in handling to the Contax 645 except is was faster. At the same time they also provided the means to utilize the extensive collection of Zeiss CFi & CFE glass I already owned via the ingenious CF adapter ... which was also fully integrated into the H system and operated in full auto aperture metering.

With Manual or Aperture preferred metering, the H with Zeiss lenses is the same as a 203FE with Zeiss CF leaf shutter lenses mounted. So I had a single system that provided 9 autofocus H/C lenses (I have 8), and full use of the 10 Zeiss manual focus optics from Fisheye to 350mm that I already owned.

For my intended use and real world applications the Contax 645 and the Hasselbald 500 systems were effectively replaced with one camera. So, I could have either bought one Sinar back to work on multiple cameras, or one Camera/Back that took all the glass I actually need, and already owned. I had grown sick of maintaining 4 or 5 MF systems and chose the latter route ... but have NO quibbles with those who chose the former.

Along the way I made some mistakes that flies in the face of this philosophy, like doing a slow build of a Leaf Aptus trade-up to a Mamiya mount 75s thinking I wanted/needed a focal plane shutter camera. In reality, based on real world Medium Format applications, I don't ... it'd be nice, but not necessary. Fortunately, I built this system wisely and basically broke even when selling it all off.

The anomaly to this well reasoned and practical approach is my dogged death grip on my 203FE system with FE lenses from 50/2.8FE to 350/4FE ... and it's ability to use all the 500 series C lenses in Leaf Shutter mode or F Mode. For this pure indulgence on my part, I HAVE to get a Sinar back ... it's the only game in town for the 200 camera. With that, I will have a 6X6 Focal Plane digital camera, a Leaf Shutter digital camera, and a 6X6 film camera ... all in one ... with a fast handling AF 645 H camera for the type application that 645 cameras were invented for ... both providing access to all my Zeiss CFi & CFE optics.

IMO, the single dumbest thing Hasselblad has done in their history is abandon the 200 series system. If they had collaborated with Zeiss for a few AF lenses, and kept the compatibility with all the leaf shutter Zeiss V optics that flood the world, I would only need one camera and one digital back.

IMO, the single smartest thing Hasselblad could do now is bring forth a Focal Plane H body with a modern shutter to 1/6000th or higher and a simple e-adapter for all Zeiss V lenses ...which given the design of the camera, and the fact that other 645s are all focal plane cameras ... plus there already is a baffle shutter in the camera ... it should not be that daunting an engineering task for the wizards at Hasselblad.

ARE YOU LISTENING HASSELBLAD?

A thought on overkill.

Multi-shot for most people is overkill. Great for bragging rights, but unless it's an actual application that's needed with frequency, it an expensive option that is a permanent addition to the back and may effect the handling aspects as a one shot camera. According to the Sinar web site they do not offer the mobile backs in a MS version (please correct this if the site is wrong) ... Hasselblad does. I haven't had a H3D-II/39 MS in hand yet, so I cannot comment on the effect that the M/S module has on the handling when used as a one shot camera.

33 and 39 meg. is great, and provides those bragging rights ... but in many real world applications is also overkill. 22 meg 645 backs with 9X9 micron pixels provides fantastic resolution and absolutely beautiful tonal renditions.

Here's an AF snap of Irakly done with an H2D/22 with a detail inset ... I cannot locate the full sized rendition, only a web shot ... but I think you'll get the idea.
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
Victor in the end it all gets down to your individual idiosyncratic preference - this is not a criticism of you, it is merely how anyone ends up making a decision. Decision 'rationalisations' are most passionately presented - AFTER teh fact and far less so BEFORE the fact :ROTFL:

I am sure you know this - given your summary progress score tables ..I would be very much surprised if in fact , you hadn't already made up your mind - before you asked the question.

For me it has become a no brainer what to do.

I must say though that you should thank a number of people for their very generous time and effort in presenting a lot of information and very interesting accounts of their personal experiences and understandings - Marc in particular, but others as well.

Regards
Pete
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Frankly this is a awesome thread and one of the best i have seen on GetDPI and certainly a major reference point of data . My head is spinning a little but i am soaking it all in. i know we are talking about the 33 and 39 meg backs and right now my interest is still on the 22mpx thinking that is enough until I get a chance to work these myself but I think I will start a 22 mpx back thread . One because that is maybe where more folks on this forum see some entry point and can also get in the door a little easier. Please keep this discussion going but maybe help out a 22mpx thread with your thoughts. Great job guys and the forum thanks you all very much for your great input
 

David K

Workshop Member
I'm taking bets that Victor goes Hasselblad... Jimmy the Greek has the odds at 8-5 in Vegas :) BTW, having shot with the H kit yesterday, tethered thru Phocus, I can tell you that is one great system. You can't go wrong with either one.
 

David K

Workshop Member
Here's one taken with the Zeiss 110 f/2 somewhere around f/11 I think. Converted with Brumbaer and resized for web, together with a crop. No post at all.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Frankly this is a awesome thread and one of the best i have seen on GetDPI and certainly a major reference point of data . My head is spinning a little but i am soaking it all in. i know we are talking about the 33 and 39 meg backs and right now my interest is still on the 22mpx thinking that is enough until I get a chance to work these myself but I think I will start a 22 mpx back thread . One because that is maybe where more folks on this forum see some entry point and can also get in the door a little easier. Please keep this discussion going but maybe help out a 22mpx thread with your thoughts. Great job guys and the forum thanks you all very much for your great input
Guy, that is why I posted the snap shot of Irakly from my previous H2D/22 ... which really performed with it 9X9 micron photosites. It's like the Hasselblad CFV back, only a near 645 sized sensor instead of the 16 meg 36.7X36.7 sensor of the CFV.

Here it is again: Inset is the full frame, then a severe crop detail of the eye ... if I run across the original full sized one I'll post it ... all I have is this smaller web upload on my hard drive ... but it still shows 22 meg is no slouch ... and frankly, in many cases more isn't better.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks Marc I know i can maybe get a P25 which I believe is the 9 microns for about 12k which i can actually almost pull off. But i need to see what Sinar , Aptus and anyone else have also in this. I think from all the reading and posting you guys have done it seems to me the sweet spot is the 9 micron sensor compared to the 6.5 of the P30 which i can get for even less.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc, I am trying my hardest to be objective, but as you can see we both are biased from our independent experiences. I sincerely do not mean to be patronizing to anyone. In fact, one of the posts above summed up the situation beautifully with the example of the wide angle 28mm HC lens. Such a lens would be impossible to design with optical correction only. So, indeed software correction has tremendous value, especially for the wides.

I was only trying to clarify my preference for lens corrections in the lenses themselves, whenever possible. Contrary to your claim, there are many MF lenses that are super highly corrected from the get go:

Rollei Schneider APO-Symar 90/4
Rollei Schneider APO-Symar 150/4.6
Rollei Schneider APO-Tele-Xenar 300/4
Contax Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 45-90/4.5 (at 65-75, no distortion, no CA, no vign.)
Contax Zeiss APO-Makro-Planar 120/4
Contax Zeiss Tele-Apo-Tessar 350/4
Sinar Zeiss Digital AF Planar 120/4
Mamiya 645 APO 300/2.8
Mamiya 645 APO 300/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 210/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 250/4.5
Mamiya RZ APO 350/5.6
Mamiya RZ APO 500/6
Hasselblad Sonnar Superachromat 250/5.6
Hasselblad Tele-Superachromat 350/5.6 (and APO-Mutar 1.4x)
Hasselblad Tele-Apotessar 500/8
Hasselblad Tele-Superachromat 300/2.8 with APO-Mutar 1.7x

In addition, several of the excellent Digital APO lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider can indeed be used on MF cameras with focal plane shutters like Mamiya and Contax (not possible with H3D/II or Hy6). Rodenstock will even provide the helicoids to do this. Of course, the flange focal distance must be within the range of the camera to get infinity focus. For example, the following lenses can be used easily on the Contax 645 (or Mamiya):

Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 100/4
Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 180/5.6
Most Schneider APO-Digitar lenses at 100mm or longer

Again, this all ties into why my system is based on a single Sinar back (to enjoy such lenses on multiple camera systems), so that I can use a focal plane shutter camera in addition to my Hy6 with the same DNG workflow.

BTW, except for the Superachromat lenses, these lenses do not cost $6000. Many of the lenses listed above can be found for much less on the used market. In fact, one of the most corrected lenses from the list above is the Rodenstock APO-Sironar Digital HR 100/4 which sells brand new for only $1700.
Nice collection !

David, as well corrected those lenses are, they are not perfect. All lenses have to make compromises in some area ... some more than others. Even Zeiss and Leica openly admit this.

The prices I've been quoted for the new AF Schneider lenses range in the neighborhood of $5,000. for the 50mm to almost $6,000. for the 180.

I have had and have used some of the Mamiya APOs with a Leaf 75s Back, and the corresponding H/C lenses are every bit as good or better ... even without the DAC corrections.

I'm sure the Rollei Schneider optics are stellar.

I just plain do not want to maintain a bunch of dispert MF systems, and all the accessories, batteries & chargers, filters, cords and all that stuff any more. Been there, done that. It's enough just to stay on top of a rangefinder system, a DSLR system AND one MF system ... horses for courses.

Consolidation is my mantra.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Thanks Marc I know i can maybe get a P25 which I believe is the 9 microns for about 12k which i can actually almost pull off. But i need to see what Sinar , Aptus and anyone else have also in this. I think from all the reading and posting you guys have done it seems to me the sweet spot is the 9 micron sensor compared to the 6.5 of the P30 which i can get for even less.
e-mail Irakly. He secured a P25 for his Contax ... he is convinced that 22 meg is perfect for his applications and the ability of the lenses he uses.

I've handled it and it's a really nice digital back. He is "relearning" his work flow in terms of getting the IQ he got from his Kodak back ... but that's just a matter of time as each back is different.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
A final clarification:

The H system provides a wide choice of Hasselblad spec'ed, Fuji built AF lenses, but is not restricted to just that. The full C, CF, CFi and CFE range of Zeiss MF lenses have been nicely integrated into the system via the CF adapter. I requires cocking the lens shutter after each shot, but the placement of the cocking lever makes that easy and swift ... with practice pushing up with your left thumb, it can be done without removing the camera from your eye. Everything else is auto-aperture metering and shooting with in-view finder displays, and you can utilize focus confirmation for manual focussing.

(See attached of H3D-II/39 with Zeiss 180/4).

I've also attached a dual shot image in my studio showing the use of a Zeiss 30mm fisheye (top) and a H/C 35mm (bottom) where the DAC corrections were applied in Phocus to correct distortion and vignetting ... then a snap of the 30mm on the H3D-II/39.

(This horse is now dead ... I'm off now to do some shooting : -)
 
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gogopix

Subscriber
Well, if I haven't thanked you all yet (I believe I have) but obviously not expressed strongly enough. The depth of discussion and time I hope are not just limited to my use, but, well, I'll take it.:salute:

As far as the 'line on what Victor will buy' I will keep checking. Who knows, the spread may pay for the system? :ROTFL:

I WAS on Hy6 switched largely to H3 on 645 basis. Sure, 6x6 is nice, but I am on the move 4-5 times a year on travel/hike/trek/skiing. If I can't use a system easily, it doesnt fly. (and I carry it! and BTW I used to take a Betacam on the slopes for some action.)
However there is alimit, and the H6 may just go over ('cube' is more important than weight.)

also likely pass on MS if it means bigger system.

I have two op's for testing but not for two weeks. Keep those 'enlightened' opinions coming!

regards and thx
Victor
 

David Klepacki

New member
Nice collection !

David, as well corrected those lenses are, they are not perfect. All lenses have to make compromises in some area ... some more than others. Even Zeiss and Leica openly admit this.

The prices I've been quoted for the new AF Schneider lenses range in the neighborhood of $5,000. for the 50mm to almost $6,000. for the 180.

I have had and have used some of the Mamiya APOs with a Leaf 75s Back, and the corresponding H/C lenses are every bit as good or better ... even without the DAC corrections.

I'm sure the Rollei Schneider optics are stellar.

I just plain do not want to maintain a bunch of dispert MF systems, and all the accessories, batteries & chargers, filters, cords and all that stuff any more. Been there, done that. It's enough just to stay on top of a rangefinder system, a DSLR system AND one MF system ... horses for courses.

Consolidation is my mantra.
Marc,

First, I do not have all these lenses. It was only to demonstrate that there were indeed a lot of MF lenses out there that have been highly corrected, since you said that you never came across any. Of course, no lens can be 100% perfect, but some lenses have more corrections than others.

As for consolidation, I couldn't agree with you more. It sounds like you had maintained quite a mess of systems, so I now better understand your decision with the Hasselblad H. I never put myself in that situation. My MF kits are very slim, but I can take advantage of the best from each camera with only one digital back system. For example, with only two/three bodies and seven lenses, I can pretty much cover anything:

1. Hy6: WLF or 90-VF, fast AF, revolving back, leaf shutters, high speed flash kit
- Rollei Schneider PQS 50/2.8
- Rollei Schneider PQS 80/2.8
- Rollei Schnieder PQ 180/2.8 2 (+ optional 1.4x)

2. Contax: WLF or 90-VF, high speed focal plane shutter, especially for shooting Hasselblad V glass up to 1/4000 (not possible with the H system and CF adapter)
- Hasselblad Zeiss CFE 40/4 IF (PC-Mutar when +/- 16mm shift needed)
- Hasselblad Zeiss FE 110/2
- Hasselblad Zeiss SA 300/2.8 (+ optional 1.7x APO-Mutar)
- Contax Zeiss 45-90/4.5 (all around convenience and light travel)

2b. (optional) Hasselblad: if I do not feel like manually stopping down the above HB lenses on the Contax.

It is not that I came with a lot of "baggage". I specifically planned these kits from scratch based on the Sinar philosophy of open systems. I do not have any such problems that you mention, concerning messy cables, batteries, filters, ..., etc. It is quite a simple system that gives me a wide range of tools and capabilities. Of course, if I need ultra-wide (rangefinder) or view camera movements, I then take my back to those systems as well. And, if I have any future need for a different focal length, from any system (like a Mamiya 28mm, or possibly their future leaf shutter lenses, as examples), I can easily add that at any time.

In fact, I did consider the Hasselblad H system. It just did not give me the same capabilities nor the flexibility as the Sinar solution that I developed above. Everything fits nicely into two packs and is easily portable, no mess, no fuss.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I think it's really important that you handle both cameras. One of the biggest differences is in how they handle, as they have very different grip stylings and body shapes. When you're trying to capture the ultimate image, sometimes it's about comfort and the camera being an extension of your hands more than anything else.

The Hy6 has the advantage of a better waist level, and the choice of 45 degree and 90 degree finders. It also has the advantage of (with the Sinar) a revolving or (with the Leaf) rotating back.

The image quality from the H3DII/AFi/Hy6 systems is as good as anything available, and not worth the debate, unless 400/800 ISO is of importance. If so, then the 31MP sensors have a significant advantage over any of the others.

Much has been made of the falloff quality of the H lenses and the high degree of sharpness. Certainly the glass for the Hy6 is going to be amply sharp. The falloff quality of the HC lenses might be an issue for some, but that depends what you're looking for. They don't look like a Canon 85mm/1.2 if that's the level of creamy you're looking for. You'll have to decide if the look of the lenses satisfies you - certainly the selection will (28mm - 300mm with more coming this fall).

And one final thing. While some refer to being "locked" into a closed system, you still have the option of trading in/selling the system if/when you desire a change. The only difference is that you may also need to find a home for camera/lenses instead of back only. But these are all modern, cutting edge systems, so their saleable viability is going to be pretty secure for quite some time going forward. I've had customers change digital backs and camera/lens systems in the past. You still have choice - even with a "closed" system.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
 
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