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Hasselblad HC 120mm Macro Lens
- Thread starter kuau
- Start date
I've done enough test now to say that the HTS with 100/2.2 can equal the 120/4 Macro in sharpness, etc.
BUT ... to get as close as you can with the 120 requires use of the 52mm tube ... and that cuts down on the amount of movements you can make with the HTS before vignetting shows up ... so you lose some of the tilt advantages.
So, for really close work with small subjects the 120 has the edge ... if you have enough light to stop down enough for required DOF.
Where the HTS shines is if you aren't right on top of the subject, and for selective focus stuff like a portrait, or table-top food with just a band of focus placed where you want it. Also, it is super easy to do stitched panoramas ... which effectively doubles the resolution of something like a landscape ... or even a table-top shot you want a close up wider view of without the distortion.
The HTS 1.5 is a lot smaller than I thought it would be. Very portable for location work ... even travel. And because it's systems integrated to the camera, it solves the battery problem like happens when using a H back on a field camera.
I assigned a second set of custom functions in the grip user menu to stop down the lens, and do mirror up when using the HTS, so one button does both. When you mount the HTS the tilt and shift numbers can be seen on the grip LCD so you can be as precise as you want ... and those are recorded in the Exif info for later use ... like if you want to match something.
Here's a table-top pano I just did with the 100/2.2. The final was a 462 meg, 16 bit tiff that is 49" X 18.26" with no up-res. It could easily make a 6' or 7' wide print with little or no visible consequences. I didn't detect any vignetting or color shifts in the two extreme shift shots. If I had attempted this in one shot with a wider lens to get it all in, it would have been more distorted at the edges. (BTW, I had to do this pano by hand because my P.S. pano plug-in got corrupted or something. :cussing
-Marc
Depends on your applications doesn't it?
Just because I now have the HTS doesn't mean I'd sell the 120/4 Macro.
Personally, for my work I got the lens first, and the HTS later.
Unless you are primarily a landscape shooter ... in which case I'd go for the HTS first. Stitching panos produces breathtaking resolution from any MFD back, even a 22 meg one.
-Marc
Hasselblad makes a table with the addition of each of their extension tubes and each in combination with each of the HC lenses to get the specific maximal magnification. I can look for it if anyone is interested. I have the 120mm macro and have used it with and without the extension tubes. Likewise i have used the extension tubes with the 100 2.2 and 50-110mm when traveling without the macro. While the extension tubes work well with the non-macro lenses, my major complaint were related to some falloff in detail and distortion at the edges of the image. I was using the H3DII-31. So probably more noticeable on fuller frame HC cameras. Nonetheless, the 120mm macro is really an outstanding lens and probably one of my favorites.
THe HTS is great but it is unfortunate you cannot attach the 120mm macro.
THe HTS is great but it is unfortunate you cannot attach the 120mm macro.
Even if one could use the 120 on the HTS, I'd be reluctant to do it because it is such a huge and heavy lens. The torque on the little HTS would be substantial ... and even though it is built very robustly with very nicely dampened, heavy-duty gears and tight locking mechanism, it would easy to see one releasing the lock and the lens falling forward in some circumstances.
The 31 employs micro lenses which may have effected the performance with tubes Mark. The fuller frame H cameras may actually have less issues. The HTS has been "programed" to correct for micro-lenses on the 40 sensor (I assume so for the 31 also), but Hasselblad makes it clear that you need the latest firmware and software installed. I found zero fall-off of edge detail with the 40 using the 100/2.2 and 13mm tube on the HTS. I've also noticed less sensor bloom with highlights with this new sensor compared to my 31 even though they both employ micro lenses.
Here's a test I did yesterday as I explored the limits of the HTS with and without tubes. HTS @ -9.1 Tilt, with 100/2.2 + 13mm tube @ f/16. (pardon the dust on the close up crop ... LOL!) The L & R edges aren't sharp because of focus fall off, but the bottom edge very close to the very edge is crispy sharp. I also tested for L & R far edge sharpness on a different set up, and that was fine also.
marc:
i'm assuming you needed the 13 tube because you couldn't get close enough using the 100 to fill the frame?
is there a change in minimum focusing distance with the HTS?
found this:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/5608/extension_tubes_metricv5.pdf
i'm assuming you needed the 13 tube because you couldn't get close enough using the 100 to fill the frame?
is there a change in minimum focusing distance with the HTS?
found this:
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/5608/extension_tubes_metricv5.pdf
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Actually, I could have gotten closer, but not much. With the 52mm it was about the same as the macro ... but tilt was restricted some. I need to get the 26mm tube for something in between.
I probably wouldn't use the HTS and 100+tubes for really small items ... I'd just jack up the D4s to put a ton of light on the subject and stop down the 120. Most of that stuff I shoot with a view camera anyway ... Rodenstock 120 macro using full TS movements when I need it sharp front to back without stopping down and introducing defraction.
I'm more excited about easily controlling focus placement with the HTS for creative applications ... even table-top stuff like food shots and jewelry with focus fall off moved around the frame.
I've been making Panos all day ... it's so easy with this thing ... huge 400+ meg files with stunning clarity and almost zero distortion. Almost makes me want to do Landscapes ... almost.
Some urban pano landscapes with a living subject is what revs my engine ... can't wait!
-Marc
That it is David. In fact my 120/4 has never been out of the studio, except maybe a few shots in the yard. I doubt I'd ever travel with it unless absolutely necessary.
-Marc
Here are some quick shots I did while testing the HTS with 100mm against the 120 macro.
The two with the (filthy) Bic Ball Point Pen show the maximum close focusing with the 120 alone verses the 100 + 55mm tube on the HTS. Both were shot at f/18 which is a compromise f stop where some de-fraction comes into play but not unacceptable.
In reality, you could get closer with the 120 by adding tubes, but frankly the DOF is non-existent when you do that ... forcing f/45 to get anything in focus unless you are shooting something perfectly flat.
The other two shots of the lens markings show that with T/S you can preserve about the same DOF @ f/18 or a bit more while shooting closer than with the 120/4 @ f/18. I probably could have squeezed a tad more DOF out of the 100 & HTS by placing the zone of focus forward a bit ... (note that the Leica Red dot is in acceptable focus). Not a scientifically perfect test as my angle wasn't a dead match ... but enough to see that the 100 performs just fine.
So IMO, for general purposes in the field with the HTS while doing Panos and corrected perspective shots, one could also get excellent macro results from the 100/2.2 without the need to lug around the 120 in addition.
-Marc
The two with the (filthy) Bic Ball Point Pen show the maximum close focusing with the 120 alone verses the 100 + 55mm tube on the HTS. Both were shot at f/18 which is a compromise f stop where some de-fraction comes into play but not unacceptable.
In reality, you could get closer with the 120 by adding tubes, but frankly the DOF is non-existent when you do that ... forcing f/45 to get anything in focus unless you are shooting something perfectly flat.
The other two shots of the lens markings show that with T/S you can preserve about the same DOF @ f/18 or a bit more while shooting closer than with the 120/4 @ f/18. I probably could have squeezed a tad more DOF out of the 100 & HTS by placing the zone of focus forward a bit ... (note that the Leica Red dot is in acceptable focus). Not a scientifically perfect test as my angle wasn't a dead match ... but enough to see that the 100 performs just fine.
So IMO, for general purposes in the field with the HTS while doing Panos and corrected perspective shots, one could also get excellent macro results from the 100/2.2 without the need to lug around the 120 in addition.
-Marc
Not sure what you mean by "sharp vision" and "auto"?
Do you mean how am I actually focusing while working? If so, in this case it was manual focusing through the view finder, then checking Focus and DOF on the full sized window in Phocus while shooting tethered. I have not yet tried using the audio focus assist in Phocus which I do use to check the calibration of my view lenses to see if they need shims (which my Rodenstock 120 needed). I'm to lazy to do that with these preliminary shots ...:ROTFL:
For the Bic Pen shots, I set the lens to closest focus then moved the pen as close as I could while keeping it in reasonable focus.
I would like to see Hasselblad offer a flip-type viewfinder magnifier for the H camera for untethered work ... which would assist in use of the HTS since the AF and Focus Confirmation is disabled.
If you mean how am I judging the end results ... I'm pixel peeping 16 bit tiffs on a 30" monitor and scrolling around at 100% and 200% in Photoshop ... then pulling prints to study.
Frankly, it is all an exercise in impractical use anyway ... the resolution of these cameras is such that there is rarely a need to get this close unless the application calls for a truly gigantic print. Backing off the camera/lens increases DOF quite a bit and is the more practical way to increase the area of acceptable focus. This isn't those whimpy little 35mm sensors we're working with here.
Here's one of the little Leica Bullet Finder with the 100/2.2 & 52mm on the HTS ... but with -10 of tilt and 0 shift this time.
-Marc
Well, I can tell what is in focus in the H viewfinder pretty well with the lens at full aperture ... but at f/18 it is difficult to see what the DOF will be because when you stop the lens down any viewfinder gets pretty dim. The waist level finder is a bit easier for this.
Same for a view camera, but using a dark cloth and a 10X loup one can inspect any area of the ground glass for focus.
Nothing beats focusing while tethered and viewing on a monitor @100% then making small adjustments when necessary. Even the audio feed back function in Phocus only tells you what is in critical focus, not what part is or is not in focus due to increased DOF.
-Marc
kuau
Workshop Member
Thanks for all the excellent responses.
I would love the HTS adaptor, but at this point a little out of my price range.
Getting back to the 120mm macro, After seeing P. Chong post of the watch using a 52mm extension tube with the 80mm lens, hmm looks pretty good to me and the least expensive option buy about 1300.00 and weights a lot less.
I am still a little confused to what extension tubes do to DOF if anything at all.
Steven
I would love the HTS adaptor, but at this point a little out of my price range.
Getting back to the 120mm macro, After seeing P. Chong post of the watch using a 52mm extension tube with the 80mm lens, hmm looks pretty good to me and the least expensive option buy about 1300.00 and weights a lot less.
I am still a little confused to what extension tubes do to DOF if anything at all.
Steven
P. Chong
Well-known member
Marc, I find shooting tethered with Phocus quite a challenge too...the image I get on my live view screen is b&W(? looks b&w), and even when I judge it to be sharp optically on my viewfinder, when I switch to live view...and boy it takes a while for the Hassy to settle down in live view mode (I figure it adjusts the aperture in steps), I usually get a blur picture which I find hard to judge. The little graph is of little use, as that too goes up and down like the stock market.
As a result the shots of watches are judged with just the optical viewfinder...and I find them rather ok in focus...any comments?
100% crop...
For me, I would still want to get the 120macro and use with extension tubes...as I want to get the crop pic above, and print without resizing up to A2.
As a result the shots of watches are judged with just the optical viewfinder...and I find them rather ok in focus...any comments?
100% crop...
For me, I would still want to get the 120macro and use with extension tubes...as I want to get the crop pic above, and print without resizing up to A2.
David Grover / Phase One
New member
With Live Video, Phocus will try and choose the optimum aperture for your lighting. Note Aperture is set to 'AUTO' in the camera control menu. It takes a while to adjust....Marc, I find shooting tethered with Phocus quite a challenge too...the image I get on my live view screen is b&W(? looks b&w), and even when I judge it to be sharp optically on my viewfinder, when I switch to live view...and boy it takes a while for the Hassy to settle down in live view mode (I figure it adjusts the aperture in steps), I usually get a blur picture which I find hard to judge. The little graph is of little use, as that too goes up and down like the stock market.
As a result the shots of watches are judged with just the optical viewfinder...and I find them rather ok in focus...any comments?
100% crop...
For me, I would still want to get the 120macro and use with extension tubes...as I want to get the crop pic above, and print without resizing up to A2.
To speed things up, change auto to the widest aperture, but drop your modeling lights down to low. You do not need much light for live video!
If the image blows out (turns white) then lighting is probably still too high, then stop down a bit. It is of course much easier to focus with the lens wide open.
The 100% live video view, it far less susceptible to light and you may get away with a wider aperture and brighter modeling lights.
Hope that helps!
Note with the H series you can also adjust focus remotely which would be perfect for your watch captures.
D