Early Alert: Hasselblad CFV-II

[woodyspedden]

Woody:

Please if you could respond to the same question I have posed to Jurgen.

Regarding the IR Filter, if you feel you are getting artifacts that are not acceptable from direct point source lighting, the new IR FIlter might improve this. It is not guaranteed, and you may not even have an issue. But if you truly feel you would benefit from the new IR Filter, I would ask your dealer about an IR FIlter replacement through Hasselblad. If they don't know anything about it, request that they find out.

Understand, Hasselblad does not want every owner of a Hasselbald product to start sending requests in for new IR FIlters - not everyone has the need, and replacing the filter won't necessarily make any difference. As a result, these are handled on a case by case basis. So, if you feel this applies to you, have your dealer make the inquiry. You'll still have to pay for the replacement even if it goes forward.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

Steve

I do have a Gretag MacBeth color checker and will indeed do as you request as it may help others as well as me.

I do want to point out again that these are new days with the CWD for me. I received it only four days ago and took a day to get in synch with how the back worked, handled etc and as stated love the files from it. I am shooting AWB daylight and then using Phocus to fine tune the balance. My only point was to notice the bias towards yellow directly out of the camera "as shot" in Phocus.I posted to see if this was me, my use of the back, or if others have seen the same tendency. I know Pham Minh Son commented on it as well. It is probably all a tempest in a teapot since getting rid of it is a no brainer. At the end of the day if I continue to see (to my eyes) a yellow bias I will simply build a preset for focus and use that as the WB starting point and fine tune from there.

Finally I have no idea yet whether I will find any issues with the current IR filter. I haven't had the system long enough to know. I was really just inquiring to get insight into what the new back brings to the party. Sounds like considering an upgrade would be a major waste of money unless one is anal about LCD size. Buying a first one of course is a different animal.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my queries

The newbie Hassy guy

Woody

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy

What is a white balance card ?
That little "stripe type" card which came with the CFV BACK can not really be a white balance card , but it made me laugh . Pherhaps I am wrong here .

On the other side , I get the impression , that my investment into the expo filter and color meter was a extreme waist of money. Hopefully not .

Jürgen

Here look at this
http://www.pictureflow.com/products/whibal/index.html

Than there a new test target out like a folding reflector that has black, grey and white and i can't remember the name . Found it they have different sizes

have yet to try one but the look pretty good

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/429982-REG/Photovision_DT14010_14_Pocket_One_Shot.html

 

[fotografz]

The CFV BACK definately produces a yellow bias . I have noticed this from the very beginning and I know other users , receiving a yellow bias as well .

When I use an "expodisc" light balance filter for manual white balance setting , or even the new SEKONIC COLORMETER C-500 , I get very much closer to the real white balance setting . But the yellow bias is still there , not as strong as before , but still visible .
Using the auto-color function in PSCS3 two or even three times in sequence , helps a lot , but there is still a yellow bias , especially in metallic surfaces , which normally turnout in medium or light grey . They have definately a yellow bias .

Any help ? ? ?

Regards Jürgen

Jurgen, did you go through the full set-up feature in Flexcolor? (Open Flexcolor, > File > Set Up > there are 7 tabs to assign settings to be contained in the combined "Set Up" preset profile window inside the adjustment page. One of these is CC. If there is any consistant cast, it can be subtily altered to taste.

My dealer set mine up for me, but my CFV back didn't need any further CC after everything else was set up correctly.

If you are not using Flexcolor or Phocus, you are at the mercy of the 3rd party preset profiles.

When using Flexcolor or Phocus tethered, you can shoot a grey card in the first shot, WB it on screen and all subsequent shots will be WB to the same standard. If you have batches of untethered shots in similar light, you can WB one, and select any others and apply that WB to it.

 

[woodyspedden]

Well in terms of ease of use Phocus makes things seriously easy. I found that I did not have to adjust WB temp at all but did need to reset the default tint from +10 to + 45. This was using my eye to judge. I then did an eyedropper white balance on what I judged to be a neutral area and subsequently a white area. Both showed a tint of between 41 and 47. So I set the tint to +45 and then saved this as a Phocus WB preset. Nothing could be easier. I have since taken about 10 additional exposures and simply initiated the preset after importing into Phocus. Perfect. We'll keep trying and learning but this is basically a non-issue. Don't know what causes the yellow bias to begin with but the fix is a no-brainer.

However I will do the Gretag MacBeth checker test just to provide data to the forum.

Woody

 

[jotloob]

Thank you very much

Guy , Steve , fotografz and Woody

for your very valuable contribution . I will check everything very carefully .
I will be away for 3 days but give feedback , when I have results .

I am working with FLEXCOLOR 4.8.5 and had a quick look to the CC field .
All values are zero . I wonder how I have to set the values and my understanding is , that these CC values are then valid for my CFV BACK and can be different for an other back . Also , are these values saved and reused for the next FLEXCOLOR session ? ? ?

Regards Jürgen

 

[fotografz]

Here look at this
http://www.pictureflow.com/products/whibal/index.html

Than there a new test target out like a folding reflector that has black, grey and white and i can't remember the name . Found it they have different sizes

have yet to try one but the look pretty good

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/429982-REG/Photovision_DT14010_14_Pocket_One_Shot.html

Guy, I use one of the WhiBal products for bench tests ... It's shown in use in the 40IF verses the HC28 thread where I did a comparison between a V40CFE verses a HC/35mm

 

[fotografz]

Thank you very much

Guy , Steve , fotografz and Woody

for your very valuable contribution . I will check everything very carefully .
I will be away for 3 days but give feedback , when I have results .

I am working with FLEXCOLOR 4.8.5 and had a quick look to the CC field .
All values are zero . I wonder how I have to set the values and my understanding is , that these CC values are then valid for my CFV BACK and can be different for an other back . Also , are these values saved and reused for the next FLEXCOLOR session ? ? ?

Regards Jürgen

Yes Jurgen. Once you set up a specific set of preferences, you can name it anything you want, and it'll appear as a default choice every time you open Flexcolor. And, yes, you can do as many of these as you wish ... which will be choices in the drop down menu in the "Set-UP" window. I had one for my CFV, and another for my H3D/39.

Also note that there are even more choices which allow you to use different preset defaults like "Old Film Standard" and so on.

Software is the gateway to tweaking these backs to your personal style and preferences.

NOTE: Phocus is still using Flexcolor Color Profiles ... so, if you install Phocus Public Beta, you MUST keep Flexcolor on your machine. Phocus is MUCH better software than Flexcolor BTW.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy, I use one of the WhiBal products for bench tests ... It's shown in use in the 40IF verses the HC28 thread where I did a comparison between a V40CFE verses a HC/35mm

Yea I think there probably the best thing on the market for a white balance card. I use the pocket one a lot . I just hold it out in front of me a lot and take a frame. I'm not a fan of the expodisk myself but some folks swear by them.

This gives me a nice idea for a thread :thumbs:

 

[jotloob]

I have done some testing now .
One and the same object under the absolutely same light conditions : daylight , no clouds at all . 3 measurements per method ! !

Using a white balance card in the size of DINA4 size (21x29,7) results in a color temperature of 5100K , 5013K , 5048K .

Using the EXPODISC I got 4952K , 4960K , 4948 .

Using the SEKONIC METER C-500 I got 5570K , 5580K , 5565K . This is nearest the color temperature HASSELBLAD has defined for daylight : 5500K .

All measurements vary a bit of the angle of you measurement .

Reading the FLEXCOLOR manuals , these difference do not really matter , as all is lossless compensated using the white balance facility in FLEXCOLOR .

Nice to know , that makes the colormeter absolete . ?

NO . The colormeter results show you , if neccessary , which compensating filters (not color correction filters) are reqired for an existing situation .
Not bad , but in most cases shurely obsolete . The main benefit of the colormeter is its ease of use . Just like the usage of a lightmeter .

A whitebalance card of that size is shurely not beloved by everybody , but it is the cheapest way to "whitebalance" .

The EXPODISC shurely is easyier to handle , but is more expensive .

My conclusion :
These three tested ways to obtain a "good" white balance lead not to the same results from the color temperature , but as FLEXCOLOR is capable to handle these differences
it is a question of what you want to pay for what comfort in measurement .

But surpriseingly , in all taken images , the yellow bias , I was talking about , is still there .
I followed Marc's suggestion , and set up different "profiles" in FLEXCOLOR and also in PSCS3 to get rid of that yellow bias .
Unfortunately , you just can not use one and the same CC profile for all images , as the colors of your images differ very much and therefore also your personal ability to see a yellow bias or not .
I know , these "profiles" , I created , are a crotch and no general solution , but it works .
For the image with the alluminium barrel of a HASSELBLAD 1600F , I had to reduce the yellow saturation by 70% .
This does not affect any other colr , at least , not visable for me .

Best regards Jürgen