Mamiya ZD road test. Wow

[thsinar]

You never stop, the both of you!

:ROTFL:

Thierry

At least he has a front porch now. So a place to sit and smoke his Cuban Cigars


You realize he is going to nail me to the wall this morning. Still sleeping the lazy :cussing:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

No we don't . Love to tease each other.

Okay back to a nice space. Hope they make this new C1 public soon it is doing a very nice job on these files. I had the camera held down on a little ridge and shot this at 1/6th of a second. I like to call these the Hail Mary's . No idea what your going to get

 

[Guy Mancuso]

This is a joke that started back in Moab and i forget what exactly but Terry this one's for you. LOL

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I was saving this for something, just forgot what though. LOL

 

[Terry]

This is a joke that started back in Moab and i forget what exactly but Terry this one's for you. LOL

Because Guy doesn't even need to think about composition he just points the camera and nails it. The joke was that he even makes trash cans look good. Unfortunately on this one the trash can is perfectly composed in the foreground but the color actually hurts the eyes!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Those fancy Sedona folks like turquoise for some reason. Here in Phoenix we are army green for real garbage. LOL

 

[Chuck Jones]

With respect, I don't think it's important how images look when reduced to tiny JPEGs. I'd want to see details at 100%, shadow noise, smoothness of graduations, etc

Graham, I agree that it is hard to see details in any web image since the resolution is limited. I'd be happy to make full resolution copies available to anyone who would like them, or even the RAW files if you wish to process for yourself.

Shadow noise is not visible in either camera, as I would expect shooting ISO 50 with both. The drawing signature of the two lenses is different, giving each a distinctive look. The Mamiya 80mm AF is a 2.8, where the Zeiss Contax 80mm is an f2. I shot some test frames wide open, others stopped down to f8 in both cases. My interest here is not necessarily which is sharper or really about the lens differences at all. I wanted simply to satisfy my own curiosity about the differences in each of these systems as a creative tool. Even at small size, the proof of the pudding is always does a particular tool give you a predictable result, that you can rely on shooting in the field and in your studio. In this case, from admittedly a very short time with the ZD, my opinion is that it is a fine camera system, taken as a whole. And so is the Contax system I've been shooting for several years now. Each has it's strengths, and each it's limitations.

What is important to me is the difference of the "look" in the two systems. I like having options with digital, just as I used different film stocks back in the good old days? Dating myself here I guess Making beautiful images is a matter of learning the craft skills of photography, and training your eye to see as an artist. Both of these cameras are very capable of producing great results I am happy to say.

One of my greatest hesitations tromping around the wilds of Mexico these past seven years was the cost of the gear I was using, and how hard it was to get repairs when needed. As a result, I used 35mm for a lot of my field work, even when I was wanting a MF look. The ZD is priced low enough that I can afford to have two complete systems for backup, and without having to sacrifice my quality standards to a point that the end results are simply unacceptable for print & publication. No way that is going to happen with the Leaf. Or a Hasselcon. Or a Sinarback. The client work I shoot just does not pay enough to buy two of any of those three brands.

So for myself, there is no choice to make between these two. The choice is between buying into the ZD system, or going with yet another Canon or Nikon, at least until Leica gets it together with the R10 and I have a chance to shoot that. I love the MF & view camera look, and always have. And I readily admit to being a megapixel junkie, as I find it hard to always have exactly the right lens mounted all of the time, so there are times that I need to crop away the unwanted portions of the frame. That is where megapixels rule in digital. I can't count the number of times a client has decided to crop in even further, so having the resolution available is a great safety net.

I am impressed with the size, weight, and the quality of the ZD. I think it holds up well with the other brands 22 megapixel offerings. And at a price that I can at least live with, and not end up living in one of Guy's outhouses!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Chuck I saved this one for you . You can move in next week . Having the porch roof rebuilt. LOL

No electric, toilets or anything like that . I'll bring over a candle and some toilet paper though

 

[Chuck Jones]

How much are they asking for it? Suzanne and I looked last week at a place just like that north of Santa Fe, and they only wanted $350,000 for it. Two acres of land included. No extra charge for the bed spring fencing.....

For the benefit of the rest of you, Guy knows I really love living in houses like that....<Grin>

 

[waynelake]

I'm all ears...:bugeyes::talk028::bugeyes:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well a couple of things should be noted . First from shot to review is 4 seconds , not the fastest . The LCD is a little small like the DMR , the good news it can be seen quite well in the sun. Handles ISO 50 and 100 very well in the noise dept. At ISO 200 noise starts to show but still very good. At ISO 400 well it is noisy, like the M8 1250 maybe a little less. Noise Ninja or some other program would help. I personally am noise sensitive so i maybe bias here. But ISO 400 for me in a emergency.

 

[Andy Biggs]

This sounds like pretty standard medium format digital noise characteristics, to be honest. 50, 100 and perhaps 200 are all that you should use.

 

[Jack]

I'm all ears...:bugeyes::talk028::bugeyes:

Well you probably don't even want to know... But when Chuck, Guy and I get together for a shoot, weird stuff happens. There was this time in Mexico when we all headed out to Pozos for a sunset shoot. But the Jeep had a flat, so we took the car. Then Chuck caught a sharp rock through the oil pan of the car, so we had to limp (quickly limp) the leaky car back to a garage in town before it ran totally dry. We almost made it too, but in the end had to push it the last couple hundred meters. Uphill. Slightly uphill, but definitely uphill. And on cobblestone streets. Chuck to this day swears it was flat, but then he was driving. Oh, and it was now dark. Robert quickly volunteered to hold the flashlight so Andy, Guy and I wouldn't trip on the cobbles. He did add one hand as I recall on the steepest part. How nice. After we got to the garage, we discovered the power had been disconnected. (I am not making this up folks.) Fortunately they were "remodeling" the building next door and I was able to bootleg hotwire off their mains and get us some juice. (Hey, the box was right there and open -- this IS Mexico remember.) So we finally got a few lights on, fortunately the water was working and we all were able to get cleaned up a little. There wasn't any soap, but we were able to smear the oil around with the cold water and dry off with pages from a six month old newspaper and at least felt cleaner. Chuck found a bottle of tequila, Guy pulled a bottle vodka he keeps in his camera bag and we all had a few sips. It was now late in the evening and we were all more than a little hungry. In a building with no food. And no ice. And we were almost through the tequila and vodka. Then Andy and Robert found this retarded chicken. Never mind... I'll save that part for later.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes Andy after that it's off to the Nikon. But at some point I would like to move up to a back that can do at least ISO 400 really well and the reason for this for me is i can avoid buying a big set of lights again. I went small with 4 Dynalite Twinkles and sold my Profotos because i am on location a lot and the small package is just easier but now i am losing DOF with MF and when you need F11 or F16 well either you need some punch or a higher ISO. I will find out more on this over the weekend . Once more my wife and oh my husband will do that jobs. My daughter and friends with some high school senior stuff. Not my cup of tea but i get to shoot the ZD so that will be good. I will be able to see what I can squeeze out of the lights or not. Now i was just fooling around with my Domke J2 bag which really is not that big for a shoulder bag. I can get the Mamiya with back and 80 on it plus 4 other lenses in this bag with room to spare and it is light as a feather. MF and heavy go hand in hand , not this system. This is a treat, plus when I travel to SJ i can actually squeeze my M8 kit in it with lens wraps for the long haul and stuff my small Leica bag in my suitcase.

 

[Jack]

Geez, I need to loosen up!

..got Guy confused in all this as well.

Guy- Jack was just making all that up. As he posted in the other thread, it is quite trivial. Sorry for the digression of your thread..

Not really, just tried to do it in a hurry instead of properly and paid the price. THe epiphany here is just yesterday I dug the padded case for the back out of the camera cabinet, especially looking for the back's protective cover. Low and behold that on the inside surface of that protective cover is a built-in storage case for the IR-Cut filter! Soooooo, obviously if you are going to go about this, get that ready to accept the filter before you remove it from the back and all should go much more smoothly than my clumsy experience did

FWIW, I did post an ugly IR test pic, chosen purely for its variety of flora content to see IR effects over any artistic appeal. It's over on the Mamiya IR thread if you want a look.

Cheers,

 

[David K]

Well you probably don't even want to know... But when Chuck, Guy and I get together for a shoot, weird stuff happens. There was this time in Mexico when we all headed out to Pozos for a sunset shoot. But the Jeep had a flat, so we took the car. Then Chuck caught a sharp rock through the oil pan of the car, so we had to limp (quickly limp) the leaky car back to a garage in town before it ran totally dry. We almost made it too, but in the end had to push it the last couple hundred meters. Uphill. Slightly uphill, but definitely uphill. And on cobblestone streets. Chuck to this day swears it was flat, but then he was driving. Oh, and it was now dark. Robert quickly volunteered to hold the flashlight so Andy, Guy and I wouldn't trip on the cobbles. He did add one hand as I recall on the steepest part. How nice. After we got to the garage, we discovered the power had been disconnected. (I am not making this up folks.) Fortunately they were "remodeling" the building next door and I was able to bootleg hotwire off their mains and get us some juice. (Hey, the box was right there and open -- this IS Mexico remember.) So we finally got a few lights on, fortunately the water was working and we all were able to get cleaned up a little. There wasn't any soap, but we were able to smear the oil around with the cold water and dry off with pages from a six month old newspaper and at least felt cleaner. Chuck found a bottle of tequila, Guy pulled a bottle vodka he keeps in his camera bag and we all had a few sips. It was now late in the evening and we were all more than a little hungry. In a building with no food. And no ice. And we were almost through the tequila and vodka. Then Andy and Robert found this retarded chicken. Never mind... I'll save that part for later.

And I'm going to a rainforest with you guys. Better bring my sat phone

 

[Anders_HK]

ZD has PROBLEM (- Still ????)

Hi,

I had the ZD but sold it due to problems that all ZD;s at time seemed to have. In fact numerous were tested by my agent, both ZD camera and back. Mamiya apparant ignored problem and wrongful blamed user (= me :sleep006 Please see here for my detailed post from end of January 2008 http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22698&hl=

It will be fair to readers considering the ZD if you point out following:

1. What serial (first two letters) is on ZD you have used? Mine was FD, and at time FE was latest.

2. Do you know if it is one new ZD, updated last few months?

Further, it would be really great help to people if you make a smilar test to what I did in the link above. I read from your numerous writings before, while I am a serious amateur not in photography for tests, I think you guys could do really detailed test on that ZD in your hands for the problem I posted in January. It will be interesting to read what you find, but please scrutinize your ZD for what I do point out as being problem.

Although Mamiya certainly let me down on ZD and I lost money on it, it sure would be appreciative if they fix(/-ed???) the problem and tell of that they done so and from what ZD serials. I still use Mamiya and like their products, but my feeling is differnt when it comes to their digital products after the experience of the ZD and their ignorance! I now use AFD with Leaf Aptus 65 and Mamiya lenses. Leaf Aptus 65 has same identical sensor to Aptus 75, it is only a very slight smaller crop (and many thousands dollars less in cost than the 75...).

The difference I have experienced stepping from ZD to Aptus 65 is no short of describing by the words VERY GIGANTIC and VERY SIGNIFICANT AMAZING. Leaf Aptus 65/75 image qualities are way ahead of ZD in my experience.

Regards
L. Anders Loof
Hong Kong

 

[Jack]

My back is serial number GDxxxx, so clearly a more recent release than yours and quite probably updated internals. I had read your review way back when you first posted it, sorry you had issues.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hmm mine is GH serial number. I have yet to notice the issues you ran into but will check with more scrutiny

 

[Anders_HK]

Hmm mine is GH serial number. I have yet to notice the issues you ran into but will check with more scrutiny

Sorry, F stands for ZD camera, G for ZD back. Same time I should say that ZD camera and back have SAME identical image qualities, but possibility could be that if they make an update they do so to the ZD back first because larger market in USA and legal aspects with selling with problem in USA (a.k.a. law suits).

My agent also tested the ZD back but I do not recall serial. It was a brand new one from factory received by them in end of November as I go by memory.

It is really good if you take a really scrutinized look at what I point out as the problem. Please feel free to email me with questions. However, I should point out that I have heard or read NIL of that Mamiya has fixed this problem. Mamiya seem to release with FA, FB, FC, FD etc... and GA, GB, GC, GD etc... so... do look.

Regardless, for anyone considering the ZD, I recommend to read carefully what I written in the link above and to thorough test the ZD for this and their photography before committing money on it.

Mmm... apples or oranges? Yes, the Aptus 65 cost me about 13,500 USD new in HK, which is more that a ZD. I basically said, to ^&#^&$, I want enjoy photography. I am actually more pleased with A65 than I expected. It has brought joy back to photography. Colors, contrast, sharpness and details are already very very good when I open at default in Phothoshop. I had D200 before but never liked it, part was I did not like the colors and my eye is very sensitive to that. The A65 gives same comfort of being able to depend on it as Velvia 50 did, although renditions are differnt. Compare to D200 the cost is even more, yet... life is life and life is not only money. I enjoy photography, no car.

While the ZD is usable at ISO 50 and 100 within a narrow limit of light conditions not encompassing bright and dark (see my link above), the Aptus 65 is useable for wider spectrum of DR and ISO 50-800. But... that trick is that when ISO 400-800 less than full size should be viewed or printed and the noise will barely be noticiable or film like. What perhaps many not realize is that the Aptus 65 is lower priced than the old technology Aptus 22, and same level / competition to Phase One P30.

Regards
Anders