choosing a new MFD system

[VICTOR BT]

hi all,
this is my first post here, im an israeli art photographer, more about me on my website.

im planning to get into the all new digital medium format system for my upcoming grand-scale project. soon i will be testing the options with dealers of hasselblad, and pahse-one/leaf here in israel.
most likely, the digital back will be the 40 megapix (mainly due to the huge extra cost for higher-res options).

my prior experience with digital backs is mainly with leaf aptus.
i understand the most current generation of backs is further improved, in sensor as well as overall system integration including software.

my interests:
- hassleblad h4d-40
- phase p40+
- leaf aptus-8

im open minded here without any primary preferences among the choices.
in fact, i am sure i would be glad to have any of them, but since there are choices and the systems cost tons of $, i want to study the systems, test them and only them choose what might be a better choice for me, wether it is image quality or usability/comfort with the camera and the workflow afterwards....

worth mentioning, hassleblad H is actually unfamiliar to me, but HTS 1.5 is a very tempting accessory (with addition of 28mm), that i would like to have. i will not have this accessory for testing, so forum members opinion who work with it is very welcomed... if not HTS 1.5, i will be considering to couple the alpa camera with one lens to whatever system i choose.

any thoughts ?
what to pay attention during the testing ?
is the HTS 1.5 a match to dedicated WA alpa, not only in comfort of being part of the system but in image quality too ?
which one of the camera is more prone to artifacts, especially things like moire etc ?

thanks, victor

 

[fotografz]

What is the URL for your website?

I use the HT/1.5 on a H4D/40 ... it is excellent ... but IMO, no camera lens set-up will equal the IQ of a tech camera with HD optics like an ALPA.

The Phase and Leaf options use a Dalsa sensor, and the H4D/40 uses a Kodak sensor ... so trying each is a good idea to see which you prefer.

Some of the nifty features of the Hasselblad H4D/40 may be less useful for you. A Leaf Shutter system for all focal lengths is nice if you use studio strobes or shoot outside in brighter lighting conditions ... and the True Focus ability for off-center recomposing focusing is nice when shooting people, especially working hand-held. But if you don't shoot that way, those features are useless or lessened.

IMO, the Leaf or Phase options are more suited for untethered tech camera field work ... the backs are powered separately rather than by the camera grip battery of the H system ... which then requires a separate power source when the back is removed from an untethered H camera.

Best of luck!

-Marc

 

[Jack]

Marc covered the most salient points very well. The only thing I would add is maybe look at the file conversion software for each as well to make sure you get along with its workflow and UI. A minor point that may or may not be a consideration for you, is that the "pro" version of Phase's C1 conversion software and Hassy's Phocus 2.5 will convert raw files from most popular DSLR's too.

Bottom line, if you stick to one of the major brands you listed, you can hardly go wrong -- the image quality results will all be superb while the probative differences are mostly related to use: ergonomics, specific features, camera and back UI or software based.

Cheers,

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

Hi Jack,

Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

David

 

[xpixel]

Hi Jack,

Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

David

Yes it does... but if you use a Leica S2 DNG and want to save as 16bit tif you have a black file... maybe you have a solution?

 

[Jack]

Hi Dave,

I was not aware of that, so thanks for pointing it out! I've edited my post above to include it for thread posterity

Thanks,

 

[billbunton]

Hi Jack,

Please note Phocus 2.5 also supports conversion from most popular brands as well.

David

But only on the Mac, right?

 

[yaya]

Hi Victor and welcome on board,

you can guess what my choice would be;-)

talking about software, the Leaf will tether to both Capture One and Leaf Capture and in addition the files can be processed in many converters including some preliminary/ limited support in phocus 2.5.
If you are looking for references from fellow photographers in Israel who use their backs on Alpa cameras (and other platforms) please let me know

shabat shalom

yair

 

[dougpeterson]

is the HTS 1.5 a match to dedicated WA alpa, not only in comfort of being part of the system but in image quality too ?

Nothing matches the image quality of a dedicate WA camera (Alpa/Cambo/Horseman/Sinar) with Rodenstock or Schneider glass. These solutions are LESS easy to use, but are the absolute top of image quality in the current marketplace. I do not think you will find a single member of the board who has used a dedicated WA camera who would say that any other type of camera will match that quality - though you find many who would warn you that it's not an easy point-and-shoot setup and requires a user that wants quality much more than convenience . When mounting to the tech camera the Leaf and Phase One have their own built in battery which means you wouldn't need an external battery or hard drive to power the back.

[Leaf shutter only] vs. [focal plane shutter only] vs. [leaf or focal plane shutter] is a very big decision often overlooked by photographers. It effects lens size/weight/price/maximum-shutter-speed/maximum-sync-speed/shutter-vibration and diffraction limitations. Each type of shutter has pros and cons and a system which lets you use either provides enormous flexibility. See this recent post for more details.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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[ptomsu]

Nothing matches the image quality of a dedicate WA camera (Alpa/Cambo/Horseman/Sinar) with Rodenstock or Schneider glass. These solutions are LESS easy to use, but are the absolute top of image quality in the current marketplace. I do not think you will find a single member of the board who has used a dedicated WA camera who would say that any other type of camera will match that quality - though you find many who would warn you that it's not an easy point-and-shoot setup and requires a user that wants quality much more than convenience . When mounting to the tech camera the Leaf and Phase One have their own built in battery which means you wouldn't need an external battery or hard drive to power the back.

[Leaf shutter only] vs. [focal plane shutter only] vs. [leaf or focal plane shutter] is a very big decision often overlooked by photographers. It effects lens size/weight/price/maximum-shutter-speed/maximum-sync-speed/shutter-vibration and diffraction limitations. Each type of shutter has pros and cons and a system which lets you use either provides enormous flexibility. See this recent post for more details.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up
RSS Feed: Subscribe
Buy Capture One at 10% off
Personal Work

Doug,

need to jump in here. While I am absolutely with you WRT high IQ of Tech cameras and dedicated lenses, the HTS together with selected Hasselblad lenses comes pretty close to this IQ - I would even dare say it tops in some situations - but I am also pretty convinced that these differences are very little if they are there.

Issue is that it does not offer the flexibility of a Tech cam and never will, but the bonus is it is much easier to use, especially in combination with Phocus.

So if you use the H system then the HTS is a good investment for tilt and shift, especially with lenses like the 28 or 100. On the other side if you need the higher flexibility of a tech cam, then there are adaptors for all (at least most) tech cams for Hasselblad backs. This means if one has a H system this does not exclude him by any means from using a tech cam.

Everything is open

 

[yaya]

Worth noting that the shortest effective focal length with the HTS and a 40MP chip is 55mm so wide but not that wide...

If wide-angle and perspective control are your thing then a pancake camera is much smaller and lighter than an SLR, especially when adding lenses, adapters etc.

Yair

 

[ptomsu]

Worth noting that the shortest effective focal length with the HTS and a 40MP chip is 55mm so wide but not that wide...

If wide-angle and perspective control are your thing then a pancake camera is much smaller and lighter than an SLR, especially when adding lenses, adapters etc.

Yair

The 28 in combination with the HTS results in a 42mm in combination with a 39 or 50MP back. I would see this not as bad, given that the most popular lenses on tech cameras are also around 40mm.

The advantage of the HTS is that it is fully integrated in the H system and Phocus, so color shift, vignetting etc. are pretty effectively controlled. And very simple, which is what I like (prefer) in daily operation.

You are right, if you do not need the MP count of MFDBs, then a Canon or Nikon TS solution is much more preferable WRT smaller and lighter and thus easier to handle equipment.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'm slammed at the moment with a work deadline and just finished processing 200 images out of 400 from a P40+ back working in c1 making master tifs and jpegs for a client and all I can say is get a 40mpx back by whatever OEM turns you on. The files are just screaming with detail and plenty of power to go way up on the print side of the house and to handle any needs you may need. I'm in heaven with my system and after 35 years shooting could not be happier. Okay if clients actually paid on time it would be nice and more of them :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Now as far as who to buy from I went Phase and it has been a very happy choice for me. Just do your homework and try them out before you start writing checks. BTW welcome to GetDPI and there is plenty of threads on all of these systems. Find some time and get reading some of them and also check out our review section as well.

 

[yaya]

You are right, if you do not need the MP count of MFDBs, then a Canon or Nikon TS solution is much more preferable WRT smaller and lighter and thus easier to handle equipment.

By Pancake I was referring to the likes of ALPA, Cambo WD-S etc.

An ALPA SWA with 3 Schneider XL lenses takes less space than even an FF DSLR let alone an MF SLR (and the HTS is like adding a mini tech camera...)

Oh and 28mmX1.5X1.3 (crop of the 40MP chips) =54.6 BTW and and you also loose 1.3 stops

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...

Thanks Peter for giving your opinion on the HTS and it's real world use.

I guess they just feel threatened.

The HTS is the only tilt shift solution that automatically writes tilt, shift and rotational data into the image file for automatic corrections of vignetting, CA and distortion. A huge time saver and very convenient!

Certainly testing one would be a good move.

Best,



David

 

[tetsrfun]

It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...
********
It must be a generational thing...I am old and I find the "hole pickers" incredibly obnoxious and irritating but most feel that the "hole pickers" are great guys..so I guess that I have been left behind by the internet marketing "age".

Steve

 

[xpixel]

But only on the Mac, right?

Yes... 2.5 is Mac only...

 

[Jack]

It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...

I think there is maybe a bit of "over sensitivity" here regarding "brand" discussions. Reminds me of having to adhere to political correctness when having discussions at a cocktail party -- I'd hope we'd be beyond that here when we're trying to learn about gear...

Who exactly "picked holes" and in what product?

If by chance you were referring to the HTS comment about effective focal on a crop sensor camera, I think that was a reasonable point to bring up especially when the OP asked specifically about it. The combined effects of cropped sensor and HTS magnification *might* be a valuable revelation for a new user if they weren't otherwise aware of it.

Is it also now off limits point out that any extender, including the HTS, also cuts light transmission?

 

[fotografz]

It's funny, I never feel the need to pick holes in a competitors product...
********
It must be a generational thing...I am old and I find the "hole pickers" incredibly obnoxious and irritating but most feel that the "hole pickers" are great guys..so I guess that I have been left behind by the internet marketing "age".

Steve

LOL!

I find it obnoxious and irritating also ... so it's the "old folks home" for us Steve. :ROTFL:

Not only am I old, I'm lazy as a hound dog on a sweltering August day ... I happen to like the HTS/1.5 because I'll actually use it ... it's so no-brainer and easy to take with ... no fuss, no muss just put it on and shoot. Take it off and shoot something else with a tele. It folds down small enough to put it in a side pocket of the bag.

It's like double mint gum: It's two cameras ... two cameras ... two cameras in one

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Geez only us old timers remember that jingle. LOL