HOW DO YOU FOCUS WITH YOUR ALPA

[thomas]

my trouble with hyperfocal focussing is that with a high rez DB at f8 or f11 you still really see where the actual focus spot is. Simply because sensors like contrast.
So even if there is a lot of DOF you will see how it is spread over the image and where the "center" plane of the focus is (i.e. you will see the actual focus spot).
First when diffractions steps in (somewhere between f11 and f16) this effect is leveled out.
For critical work I forget about hyperfocal focussing... it's simply not accurate enough.

... IMO

 

[Metz]

JootLob - I have TC and 12 Max with a P45+ and the following lens Alpa 48, Rodenstock 70 HR and 90 HR. The TC, generally gets used as walk around with the Alpa 48mm mounted on it and I use hyper-focal to focus. However, on the 12 Max I use a Alpa Pro GG (big difference and highly recommend) and I am on a tripod, using the GG with a loupe (wide open), then I dial down to the sweet spot of the lens (Generally F11), and then adjust the shutter speed to get the right exposure. After that I follow the normal drill of cock shutter, fire, ect… One warning, because of the fine focus plane on MFDBs - focus is critical - but when achieved - the images are outstanding.

 

[Mike M]

Does anyone have a preference for a particular brand or kind of loupe when working with the new Alpa pro ground glass? Is there a certain magnification that seems to be the most comfortable for viewing?

 

[jotloob]

I am very much surprised about the many feedbacks to this topic .

I have been reading all contributions over again and appreciate all different opinions very much .

I come to the conclusion that we face two different situations for focusing .

The handheld shooting for situations , where you must react rather fast or you dont want to carry a tripod with you . I believe here are the estimation and the hyper focal method the best and fastest methods , which can give you accurate sharp images .

Then , we have the situations where absolute sharpness is required or desired and where you would work from a tripod only .
In this situation , you would also have more time to set up your equipment .
My current project requires the work from a tripod and precise focusing .

Therefore I tend to have a look at the professional screen plus the leather bellow loupe device to see how it works and if it will give me what I am looking for .

Living only about 250 kms away from the ALPA Company , I arranged a
visit on the coming Monday morning to get a demonstration and a try
with the two accessories .

I will give feedback with my findings when I return from Switzerland in the middle of next week .

Regards . Jürgen

 

[Optechs Digital]

Hi Mike,

I really like the Rodenstock 4x for focussing on the Ground Glass. I recently spoke with a customer that likes to use the Hoodman loupe because it covers the entire image area at once as well as acting as a hood.

Best,
Paul

Does anyone have a preference for a particular brand or kind of loupe when working with the new Alpa pro ground glass? Is there a certain magnification that seems to be the most comfortable for viewing?

 

[Mike M]

Thanks Paul

 

[archivue]

"The distance scale of the DIGARON-S 28mm lens , for example , just shows
for longer distances 5m and the next is infinity ."

this was the main reason for me to go with an Arca RM3D !

i'm now in the process to buy a leica D5... the bosh DLE70 being perfect for interior only...

 

[jotloob]

Jurgen,

The best advice I can give is to learn hyperfocal focusing. It sounds much more difficult than it is. Once you learn it, you will wonder what took you so long.

For example, if I am shooting with my 35mm, I set f11 and the hyperfocal focus distance for that aperture and start shooting. As long as no part of the scene is closer than 4' Everything is in focus. I just keep composing and shooting without concern for the focal point. If I have a foreground element that is closer than half the hyper focal distance I either stop down or take two exposures and stack them.

At f11 I am at the sweet spot for all my glass. The only time I stop down is if I need it more DOF but even then it is strictly by the numbers. I use PhotoCalc on my iPhone to calculate the focusing distances and it has been very accurate for me.

I have a laser distance finder and small tape measure for more critical work but hardly ever have to use them.

An important point is that you have to test your kit. On the cambo and 645 kits I find i have to adjust two stops from the scale on the lens with my p65. Doug who is tech support for capture integration explained why but I don't really understand it. I just know at f11 I set the hyper focal scale to f5.6, at f16 set it to f8 and it works. I know it has something to do with the resolution of the back but haven't really caught on to why the scale on the lens is off.

Before I went to ZUERICH to see the ALPA people , I took the chance to do quite some testshots as per the hyperfocal method Ed describes in the above quote .
I must say , using f11 , that I obtained very good results when setting the hyper focal scale on the lens to f8 and even a bit sharper when setting to f5,6 . This method narrows down the total hyper focal length but is still within the desired range for most of my objects .
Therefore , this is of great help for me and makes most of my shooting much easier and also more comfortable .

Still , when I saw and used the new ALPA GG , the one with the 4mm grid ,
I could not resist and bought it , together with the little leather bellows , which I just call the ALPA's tanga slip .
Using the 6x Schneider loupe , focusing is very easy and composition is just great .
So I will use the GG and/or the hyper focal method depending on the situation .
I feel very satisfied and think I have got the right tools now .

"The distance scale of the DIGARON-S 28mm lens , for example , just shows
for longer distances 5m and the next is infinity ."

this was the main reason for me to go with an Arca RM3D !

i'm now in the process to buy a leica D5... the bosh DLE70 being perfect for interior only...

I do not know , how you focus an ARCA Rm3D , but when you can use the ARCA 6x9 GG , focusing will be very similar to the ALPA .

I had a look to the DLE70 and also the LEICA D5 laser RF , but my conclusion is , that this would be a waste of money .
Assume you get a reading of 13,985 meters , how could you ever set that distance accurately on the lens's scale . You can not .
The laser range finder could be of help , when shooting within shorter distances and if you don't have much time . But I would still prefer the GG and my little FotoMan mechanical RF .
Jürgen

 

[darr]

I am currently in Iceland shooting landscapes with my Alpa Max and 47xl. I am focusing via GG and bellows loupe via hyper focal @ f/11. I will post a few results after I return. My only wish thus far is that I had purchased at least one more lens. But, this was suppose to be an experiment for me to see if the Alpa kit will become my landscape kit and I honestly wanted to go as simple as possible. .

Darr

 

[jotloob]

I am currently in Iceland shooting landscapes with my Alpa Max and 47xl. I am focusing via GG and bellows loupe via hyper focal @ f/11. I will post a few results after I return. My only wish thus far is that I had purchased at least one more lens. But, this was suppose to be an experiment for me to see if the Alpa kit will become my landscape kit and I honestly wanted to go as simple as possible. .

Darr

Darr

I envy you for beeing in Iceland . It has always been my desire to shoot Iceland landscapes , but somehow I never got there . What a pitty .

I use my ALPA12SWA only for WA angle photography .
With the ALPA , I got the DIGARON-S 28mm . A really great lens .
Out of my LF lens fundus , I got the APO-GRANDAGON 45mm and the SUPER ANGULON XL 72mm adapted .

The 4mm grid GG is very good to work with . And I rediscovered my darkcloth . Funny ! ! ! Isn't it . Very good , if it is not too warm .
What I do like so much with the ALPA is , it is photography back to the roots using high precision + digital technology .

I wish you lots of good images (also from the vulcano) .

Regards Jürgen

 

[darr]

Darr

I envy you for beeing in Iceland . It has always been my desire to shoot Iceland landscapes , but somehow I never got there . What a pitty .

I use my ALPA12SWA only for WA angle photography .
With the ALPA , I got the DIGARON-S 28mm . A really great lens .
Out of my LF lens fundus , I got the APO-GRANDAGON 45mm and the SUPER ANGULON XL 72mm adapted .

The 4mm grid GG is very good to work with . And I rediscovered my darkcloth . Funny ! ! ! Isn't it . Very good , if it is not too warm .
What I do like so much with the ALPA is , it is photography back to the roots using high precision + digital technology .

I wish you lots of good images (also from the vulcano).


Regards Jürgen

Thanks Jürgen. Iceland is an absolutely beautiful place this time of year. I do not think you are that far away. I had to take three planes from Florida and I plan on coming back next year. I am anxious to look at my shots. I am hoping the Alpa will be my landscape camera for the next 20 years.

After using it outside for a while, I find it to be much easier to shoot than my 4x5". I travelled the first few days with a couple of 4x5 and 5x7 shooters, and I was always waiting for them to finish. After a few days, I made the decision to move ahead on my own and I am glad I did.

I totally agree with you about going back to our roots using high precision + digital technology. :thumbup:

Kind regards,
Darr

 

[narikin]

just remember all the discussion/ effort to shim the back correctly, is primarily for landscape shooters who work at infinity. In other words it makes the infinity setting on your focus scale 100% accurate.
IF you work closer than that, then there might be slight variance, due to helical focus mount scale errors (rare, but I have seen it) and of course how accurate your measuring technique is. Its no good having a perfectly accurately shimmed system, if you are setting your 9.5m away object at 10m due to an inaccurate measurement...

and with that thought we are back to the original question of how to focus, and the knowledge that the only 100% safe way is to work tethered. (or simply expect inaccuracies and focus bracket)

 

[delled]

The Arca-Swiss RM/L3D uses a single multi-turn, .01mm resolution, camera-mounted helix rather than using a separate helix for each lens. It would therefore seem possible and practical, given time, patience, and an independent source of distance measurements, to calibrate any lens and then to compensate in the field for any errors. Not (yet) having an Arca, I'd be interested in hearing more informed opinions.

Thanks,

Dave.

 

[jotloob]

just remember all the discussion/ effort to shim the back correctly, is primarily for landscape shooters who work at infinity. In other words it makes the infinity setting on your focus scale 100% accurate.
IF you work closer than that, then there might be slight variance, due to helical focus mount scale errors (rare, but I have seen it) and of course how accurate your measuring technique is. Its no good having a perfectly accurately shimmed system, if you are setting your 9.5m away object at 10m due to an inaccurate measurement...

and with that thought we are back to the original question of how to focus, and the knowledge that the only 100% safe way is to work tethered. (or simply expect inaccuracies and focus bracket)

Please have a look to the somewhat "emitional" discussion here :
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19369

There are two things which come into my mind .

Why did most of the posters , now discussing in the above thread not post here and contribute to the topic of this thread ?

I come to the conclusion that regarding all the discussion in both threads , we will never really be able to focus precisely with any camera and any lens . No matter which method we will use . Even not when using an ARCA Rm3d .
All measurements will end up as a compromise .
Therefore we should learn to live with the best compromise and enjoy the sharp results and not crave for 100% perfection , which we will not achieve anyway .

 

[thomas]

I come to the conclusion that regarding all the discussion in both threads , we will never really be able to focus precisely with any camera and any lens . No matter which method we will use . Even not when using an ARCA Rm3d .
All measurements will end up as a compromise .
Therefore we should learn to live with the best compromise and enjoy the sharp results and not crave for 100% perfection , which we will not achieve anyway .

I do not agree. To me this sounds a bit like a justification for the limited level of accuracy you can get from your Alpa (which will most likely will be improved with the new Alpa focus rings in conjunction with a laser distomter).
I do use the Cambo WRS, which basically shares the the same way of focussing as the Alpa, and I know under which circumstances I can get accurate focus and under which circumstances I can not. I have absolutely no problem to admit that the Rm3D is by far the most reliable solution (why wouldn't I? Because I use a Cambo? Ridiculous...) and that it in fact comes very close to the 100% perfection you are talking about. I've taped additonal indications on my focus rings, measured with a laser disto, and I can tell you this is the most reliable way to focus the lens. I also know that the focus ring of my 47XL has a slight offset (re indications) whereas my 70HR is dead on (i.e. the 5m indication exactly matches 5m distance, the 10m indication matches 10m etc.). Now, with the ultra high resolution of Arca's focus ring this makes things even more accurate. No doubt it's by far the best solution for untethered work; nothing else comes even close... IMO.

 

[jotloob]

I do not agree. To me this sounds a bit like a justification for the limited level of accuracy you can get from your Alpa (which will most likely will be improved with the new Alpa focus rings in conjunction with a laser distomter).

Thomas

Don't make a fool of yourself . Justification ? ? ? What for and why ? ? ?
I am an end user and do not need to justify anything . I bought the ALPA because I wanted that camera , it was a considered buy and I do love that camera and like to work with it . I do know about the pros and cons and I do not complain about anything . Or do I ? ? ?
I had the ARCA Rm3d a couple of times in my hands and I do believe , that focussing that camera is currently the most accurate way to focus a technical camera . We will see what the PHOTOKINA will bring for all non ARCA brands to catch up regarding focussing .

But again , I do believe that absolute perfect focussing is impossible .
Even when you use a high end distometer , you would have to measure
exactly from the sensors plane to your object and then transfer that result to your lens . Almost impossible and that is also the reason why I don't have a distometer , but might buy one if it makes sense to me .

I can very well live without that "perfection" and still receive very good results . But I am also open for improvements when they are practicable .

 

[thomas]

Even when you use a high end distometer , you would have to measure exactly from the sensors plane to your object and then transfer that result to your lens.

where's the problem?

 

[GrahamWelland]

Hmm, did I just stumble into Dpreview.com? :ROTFL:

Seems to me that everyone wants to justify their particular choice of system at the moment.

The RM3D folks believe their system solves worked peace and is the best choice on the planet at the moment.

The Sinar & Linof folks can't believe why anyone would want anything other than full field camera capabilities.

The Alpa folks can't understand why anyone would anything less than mechanical perfection even at the costs of being made by Swiss gnomes out of unobtainium and the Cambo folks think that everyone is spending way too much on alternative systems when theirs does everything for less ...

I'm a landscape photographer so what might matter to me (infinity performance is pretty important) wouldn't necessarily apply to an architectural or environmental portrait shooter. I'm sure thats true of others here too. When shooting at f/8 - f/11 I'm hard pressed to actually miss focus and if its critical or I need more dof I'll happily focus stack.

Confession: I fell hopelessly in love with my over-priced beautifully made low tech Alpa so therein lie my biasses. :salute:

 

[jotloob]

Thomas

Show me or explain me how you do it . I am curious .
A LEICA DISTO 5 is in my head but not on my wishlist yet .
Might be , that the new ALPA "precision focussing device" will speed up a decision .

 

[jotloob]

Hmm, did I just stumble into Dpreview.com? :ROTFL:

Seems to me that everyone wants to justify their particular choice of system at the moment.

The RM3D folks believe their system solves worked peace and is the best choice on the planet at the moment.

The Sinar & Linof folks can't believe why anyone would want anything other than full field camera capabilities.

The Alpa folks can't understand why anyone would anything less than mechanical perfection even at the costs of being made by Swiss gnomes out of unobtainium and the Cambo folks think that everyone is spending way too much on alternative systems when theirs does everything for less ...

I'm a landscape photographer so what might matter to me (infinity performance is pretty important) wouldn't necessarily apply to an architectural or environmental portrait shooter. I'm sure thats true of others here too. When shooting at f/8 - f/11 I'm hard pressed to actually miss focus and if its critical or I need more dof I'll happily focus stack.

Confession: I fell hopelessly in love with my over-priced beautifully made low tech Alpa so therein lie my biasses. :salute:

Thanks Graham for your post , which makes me think .
I can only agree to what you say and I'll try to find out what I can put to practice here .