The HCAM B1, the worktool for the future!

[Paratom]

I find the Hartblei quite interesting but I do not understand several points:
1) why would a motorized sliding back be more precise than a manually moved one?
I would expect that motors or cylinders to move the back cant be very strong - so I guess the sliding system itself must not be too tight to allow the motors to move the back - this is why I would wonder how you can achieve this and still have tighter tolerances.
The other question is-are tighter tolerances of any use. The Artec for example seems to work totally fine.

2) for use of non T/S longer lenses why would you not want to use a MF DSLR system with a nice viewfinder?

3) how much T/S capability do you have left when you are using T/S lenses which are designed for 35mm with a larger sensor?

The main arguments I see for the Hartblei is than can go very wide and relativly "low" cost compared to other tech cameras, but therefore you are very limited regarding T/S lenses - because you do not have any movements in the camera.

 

[Vivek]

Other than the price, what advantages are there in a HCAM compared to the Sinar M?

 

[Loc Pham]

I find the camera very interesting but I have to consider if this new piece of equipment, along with the added cost, will greatly expand the abilities I have with my current equipment.

I think with all the new platforms, digital backs and lens that have entered the market over the last two years, there is probably a great deal of equipment fatigue among professional photographers. I know that I'm tired of hearing and reading about the "next big thing", and I am a self proclaimed tech junkie.

 

[H3dtogo]

Other than the price, what advantages are there in a HCAM compared to the Sinar M?

All lens mounts are possible, all brands of digital back can be mounted in all camera mounts, it takes the 17 and 24mm TSE lenses from canon, a Contax645AF lens adapter with aperture control is in the pipeline, it is still in production and in constant evolution..... feel free to jump over the border and look for your self. :thumbup:

 

[jlm]

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/hartblei-cam.shtml

 

[H3dtogo]

Another very important advantage of the HB to me is the ability to use really high speeds, not limited to the 1/125 or 1/400 at best with copal shutter( the only mechanical shutter left). I can shift the Canon 24mm about 20mm without any problems. Maybe the Sinar or Alpa offerings seem nicer on paper, nut in reality, day in day out use, they only represent technology and a workflow from a long gome era, even another millenium. I can easely do some food shots with high speed lenses, architecture with the most extreme wide angles available today (I am sure canon and nikon will release others in future), do Fine Art with my Vintage lenses, do extreme telephoto photography and all of this with one camera, without having to reattach my back, spending hours on reconstructing a camera, using silly optical viewfinders that only give an idea of what will be captured. Maybe some of you have also noticed no color shifts, even when shiftinf 12mm with the 24mm, 8 with the 17mm and I can keep on going about the advantages of this new camera in oposite to the other camera's on the marked. When a camera is used as a tool to do a job, the photographer is not interested in Cherywood or Rosewood grips, nor in Time consuming set-up and workflows. it is all about having an universal tool that gives you real advantages over the other offerings.
A client will not be impressed about the next aluminum frame to attach a lens and back, a pine or cherrywood grip, neither about the fact that some fine art photographer ( rich dentist ) ) uses that other camera. At the end of the day the result is what counts. I still have my Cambo Wide DS ( also up for sale with the extremely sharp 47mm, a bargain for one who is looking for such a camera) and used to have the Rm3d, aswell as other Wide camera's. I even had a Sinar original P2 sliding back converted to a Wide camera ( yes, it was the father of the Arctec ) ) but all these cameras only serve one specific, extremely limeted cause and in a before the year 2000 like workflow.:clap::angel::thumbup:

 

[H3dtogo]

Another 24mm/11 mm shifted F11. Focus was at the red brick building but just look at the crop with buildings a hundred or so meters further. The 24mm is a Canon lens, used allmost fully shifted on a 37/46mm sensor attached to a body that can accept within seconds several other T/S lenses or even long focals to ake detail shots. There also are several Shift adapters that accept Hasselblad, Kiev, Zeiss Jena, Mamiya and Pentax lenses, all of them great optics offering lots of shift capability for almost for free. I often used a 120mm macro on my digiflex, a lens that also works great on the HCAM B1 as do many others.

 

[Vivek]

All lens mounts are possible, all brands of digital back can be mounted in all camera mounts, it takes the 17 and 24mm TSE lenses from canon, a Contax645AF lens adapter with aperture control is in the pipeline, it is still in production and in constant evolution..... feel free to jump over the border and look for your self. :thumbup:

Thanks for the generous offer (I am neither rich nor a dentist ).

I might take you up on your offer after the summer.

 

[markowich]

Another 24mm/11 mm shifted F11. Focus was at the red brick building but just look at the crop with buildings a hundred or so meters further. The 24mm is a Canon lens, used allmost fully shifted on a 37/46mm sensor attached to a body that can accept within seconds several other T/S lenses or even long focals to ake detail shots. There also are several Shift adapters that accept Hasselblad, Kiev, Zeiss Jena, Mamiya and Pentax lenses, all of them great optics offering lots of shift capability for almost for free. I often used a 120mm macro on my digiflex, a lens that also works great on the HCAM B1 as do many others.

can you post 100% crops, center and corner, with and without shift? thanks, peter

 

[H3dtogo]

can you post 100% crops, center and corner, with and without shift? thanks, peter

I will have to take pictures for that. I can take some more crops out of that picture but for the moment i do not have such images.

 

[Paratom]

Another very important advantage of the HB to me is the ability to use really high speeds, not limited to the 1/125 or 1/400 at best with copal shutter( the only mechanical shutter left). I can shift the Canon 24mm about 20mm without any problems. Maybe the Sinar or Alpa offerings seem nicer on paper, nut in reality, day in day out use, they only represent technology and a workflow from a long gome era, even another millenium. I can easely do some food shots with high speed lenses, architecture with the most extreme wide angles available today (I am sure canon and nikon will release others in future), do Fine Art with my Vintage lenses, do extreme telephoto photography and all of this with one camera, without having to reattach my back, spending hours on reconstructing a camera, using silly optical viewfinders that only give an idea of what will be captured. Maybe some of you have also noticed no color shifts, even when shiftinf 12mm with the 24mm, 8 with the 17mm and I can keep on going about the advantages of this new camera in oposite to the other camera's on the marked. When a camera is used as a tool to do a job, the photographer is not interested in Cherywood or Rosewood grips, nor in Time consuming set-up and workflows. it is all about having an universal tool that gives you real advantages over the other offerings.
A client will not be impressed about the next aluminum frame to attach a lens and back, a pine or cherrywood grip, neither about the fact that some fine art photographer ( rich dentist ) ) uses that other camera. At the end of the day the result is what counts. I still have my Cambo Wide DS ( also up for sale with the extremely sharp 47mm, a bargain for one who is looking for such a camera) and used to have the Rm3d, aswell as other Wide camera's. I even had a Sinar original P2 sliding back converted to a Wide camera ( yes, it was the father of the Arctec ) ) but all these cameras only serve one specific, extremely limeted cause and in a before the year 2000 like workflow.:clap::angel::thumbup:

Seems you like the HCAM B1 - allthough I am surprised how limited you judge the other cameras listed.

 

[H3dtogo]

Lets get real, only 1/125 sec max, no computer guided operation, no multishot, no easy to use range of almost unlimited lenses( in comparison to schneider and Rodenstock offerings), no lit operation buttons,... I really loved my Rm3d and Cambo Wide but they are simply created for only one purpose. Now with my Hartbleicam I have a camera whose possibilities are only limited by my own imagination and creativity. Try both the wide angle shot and the studioshot with only one camera, as one cannot mount those wonderfull Biotars to any MF camera, even with more camera's that would not be possible. The Sinars and Alpas, Arcas and Cambos are all wonderfull pieces of craftmanship, but the Hartblei is the one made to earn money. ;_)))))
I certainly do not want to let you think i have anything against the other wide camera's but it is just in my (probably limited) experiance that now there is a working tool, that for the first time in many years, offers so many new creative possibilities, that is grounbreaking different from all other cameras on the market. That is why i am so exited about this new camera. I think one has to work with the camera, explore it's almost unlimited possibilities to understand it's real potential. As they seem to be delivered to dealers worlwide at the moment, maybe those interested go look for themselves. Feel free to contact me for more info as i really love this new tool.

 

[Paratom]

Lets get real, only 1/125 sec max, no computer guided operation, no multishot, no easy to use range of almost unlimited lenses( in comparison to schneider and Rodenstock offerings), no lit operation buttons,... I really loved my Rm3d and Cambo Wide but they are simply freated for only one purpose. Now with my Hartbleicam I have a camera whose possibilities are only limited by my own imagination and creativity. Try both the wide angle shot and the studioshot with only one camera, as one cannot mount those wonderfull Biotars to any MF camera, even with more camera's that would not be possible. The Sinars and alpas, arcas and Cambos are all wonderfull pieces of craftmanship, but the hartblei is the one made to earn money. ;_)))))

why 1/125 max?
compared to a tech camera the Hartblei is quite limited if you want to use tilt shift since you have no movements in the camera and there are only few 35mm T/S lenses with such an image circle.

If you do not want to use movements for longer lenses why not just use a MF digital SLR? Why use a sliding back which means a massive time between focusing and taking the image meaning its just good for stills?

And which of those various lenses offer something you could not achieve with a Hassy/Schneider/Zeiss lens on a MF SLR or Rodenstock/Schneider on a tech camera in case you wanted movements?

How would the Hartblei shoot multishot with a back that could not do multishot on any other camera?

I still see the Hartblei as a good option if one needs very very wide AND I see it as a good option price wise if one wants a camera with 24 mm T/S for MF-Back. for reasonable money.

Do you feel the Canon T/S are up to the Rodenstock and Schneider lenses IQ-wise?

 

[H3dtogo]

Most Copal shutters only go to 1/125 sec, 1/400 max. The existing solutions like Schneider (fastest 1/60 sec) and
Rollei(fastest 1/125, and who knows how long this will be built ?)

The Shorter Rodenstock or Schneider lenses do not really have movements for
the praised Sinar(or Cambo,Arca whatever) on big MF chips ! The Canon´s on
the Hcam do !

The Camera is an electronic device using 21st century technolgy offering
further devellopments for all kind of improvements - it can do about
anything that a MF DSLR can do, but without the limitations of the Mirror in
the way. The old mechanical Cameras represent a line of
technology that really started in the 19th century- there is no further
devellopment for mechanics to work with Digital.


I do have wonderfull high speed tele lenses for Nikon, but do not have them for Hasselblad( as they simply do not exist) ;-))
Maybe I am one of the few photographers that first sees oppertunities when discovering a new tool instead of trying to find reasons why not to buy one. That is why there are so many canon, nikon and hassie mamiya photographers fishing in the same "client pool". I like to jump out of the box and the Hartblei seems a great tool for that. Why would i want to do other then still live with a technical camera, i never did with my Arca or Cambo ( i did so with my linhof master technika). Some camera's seem to be made by extremely creative camera users for people ( photographers) who see the creative possibilities of a given tool, others are simply made for the bigger mass, to make stock holders and GAS addicts happy )).

 

[thomas]

what are the lens options for the Hartblei Cam if your most used focal lengths are 35, 45 and 70 (or 80) mm... with large image circle and sharp to the edges even with large movements (shift)?
A Canon 17mm and/or 24mm are certainly very decent solutions even with a high res DB but those focal lengths are very special... IMO.

 

[stephengilbert]

Most Copal shutters go to 1/125? Copal 0 shutters, used in the ALPA Schneider and Rodenstock lenses, go to 1/500: http://www.rtsphoto.com/html/copal2.html

I guess you could say that most models of Copal shutters go to 1/125, but that's sort of irrelevant. The lenses used on the cameras we're talking about here use shutters that go to 1/500.

 

[H3dtogo]

Yes you are wright about the Copal, my mistake. I think i am a bit to exited about my new toy. Maybe it is better for me just to play with it and have fun.
There are several Hartblei lenses that will do a great job, using Zeiss or kiev Glass. A 40/80/120mm from Hartblei in Germany by Stefan Steib and several of Hartblei lenses made in Kiev wich are still on the marked.
Maybe one can also look at the camera not as a replacement for any given existing camera but just try to explore the enormous potential it has.
I really like the things i can do with it and hope some others will find out the same thing.
:sleep006:

 

[Jack]

Most Copal shutters only go to 1/125 sec, 1/400 max. The existing solutions like Schneider (fastest 1/60 sec)

For the sake of thread posterity lest somebody be confused that what they've read above is fact...

Copal size 0 shutters, the size most commonly used for LF lenses 150mm and under and most digital specific view lenses from Schneider and Rodenstock, have a top speed of 1/500th. They also synch to flash at this speed.

Copal size 1 shutters, a medium size common in large format lenses of 180mm and longer, have a top shutter speed of 1/400th.

Copal size 3 shutters, quite large for the largest LF lenses, have a top speed of 1/125th.

 

[thomas]

There are several Hartblei lenses that will do a great job, using Zeiss or kiev Glass. A 40/80/120mm from Hartblei in Germany by Stefan Steib and several of Hartblei lenses made in Kiev wich are still on the marked.

but I think those lenses do not hold up against their counterparts from Schneider + Rodenstock.
I'd be certainly extremely interessted in the Hartbleicam if I could mount large format lenses and if the camera would provide movements (on the rear)...
The way it is designed now (in version 1) makes it IMO more a replacement for a 645 camera if you are only shooting stills ...

 

[Godfrey]

Looks like a very nice technical camera.
I understand your excitement.

It's completely irrelevant to the kind of photography I do, but a nicely conceived specialist piece for its specific domain.