HD4-40 or S2

[fotografz]

It is somewhat difficult to project what you may or may not do with a camera system ... especially if you have no history with a MFD system. Today it may be one thing, tomorrow another.

If you are starting from scratch, add up what the system will cost ... including consideration of buying mint used lenses for the Mamiya or Hasselblad.

You may find that a 3 or 4 lens S2 system will price out at the level of a Hasselblad H4D/50 kit with 3 or 4 lenses, NOT a H4D/40. Perhaps keep it apples to apples when comparing pricing.

IMO, (and direct experience) the H4D/40 is designed for faster work and a bit lower light photography. The exclusive True Focus/Focus Re-compose is an especially favorable feature for spontaneous photography and selective focus portraits with lenses like the 100/2.2. I also use the 40 to shoot weddings and environmental portraits. I use the H-Tilt/Shift (HTS/1.5) adapter to make panoramic images ... where the Phocus software automatically corrects for any color shift effect the micro lenses may have.

Like Guy, I do not find shooting with a Mamiya or Hasselblad H for long periods to be an issue, any more than lugging around a Pro 35mm DSLR.
A hand strap does wonders in either case.

-Marc

 

[markowich]

hasselblad or mamiya unless you need the leica weathersealing. i did not compare the S2 and the H 40mpx system but (maybe slightly unfair) the S2 and the H3DII50 and the H hasselblad hardware-software combo convincingly wins in the IQ department. mind you, i am not unhappy with the S2 but the leica system is -overall speaking- not yet on the level of the MF contenders, except ergonomics-wise. the S system is a luxury to have but it has limited utility factor. somewhat like the luis vuitton of MF---))))
IMHO only....
peter

 

[David K]

hasselblad or mamiya unless you need the leica weathersealing. i did not compare the S2 and the H 40mpx system but (maybe slightly unfair) the S2 and the H3DII50 and the H hasselblad hardware-software combo convincingly wins in the IQ department. mind you, i am not unhappy with the S2 but the leica system is -overall speaking- not yet on the level of the MF contenders, except ergonomics-wise. the S system is a luxury to have but it has limited utility factor. somewhat like the luis vuitton of MF---))))
IMHO only....
peter

I'll respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I've had some extensive hands on time with the S2 and think it compares quite favorably with the other MF contenders... at least in IQ.

 

[fotografz]

I'll respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I've had some extensive hands on time with the S2 and think it compares quite favorably with the other MF contenders... at least in IQ.

I'd tend to agree to some degree re: IQ. The S2 very much compares favorably when the shooting conditions are ideal ... as in "as good as" or maybe slightly better than, other solutions in a similar sensor size, meg count.

Please forgive the rather long summation and conclusions to follow ... but they were formed by being informed and vigilant to all sides of the discussion. :lecture:

IMO, IQ is partly cool and analytical objective science, ... and partly subjective opinion regarding the "look" any given MFD system delivers.

Except for a few niggles that have yet to be addressed fully by firmware/software, (or some ingenious user solution), the relatively young S2 is hard to fault technically... mostly due to the lenses I think.

Subjectively, I'm still not convinced of the look produced by the S2. This opinion was formed by trying the camera in great light and not so great light ... and religiously looking at any S2 image I can find. I continue to stalk this camera because on paper it fits much of my current needs to a T.

Of course, where the science "is what it is", my subjectivity about the "look" is subject to change. So, I keep an open mind as the S2 gets into more hands of photographers with different aesthetic approaches. Time will tell.

However, for many photographers, practical considerations cannot be jettisoned willy-nilly in favor of subjective passion alone. This practical aspect is also cool and analytical, even if it does incite passionate discourse when comparative pronouncements are made.

IMO, these cameras are professional level solutions, even if in the hands of those who do not make their living from photography. As such, they are publicly subject to scrutiny as professional solutions.

Generally, system completeness and flexibility are no small matters for those in need of MFD solutions. That will come for the S2, but in a bit more limited manner. Perhaps other 3rd party add-ons will solve this eventually. Maybe, maybe not. This is not a need for everyone, but true for more photographers than one would guess, including those who don't think they need it only to discover growth is limited as they explore MFD.

One simply cannot overlook pricing. Even setting aside trade upgrade promos, system pricing places the S2 in a different category of MFD comparison. My trek in this area was simple ... I priced out the whole S2 system and support ... then, without factoring in what I already owned, I searched for what I could get with that amount of money.

Even if I purchased from scratch, a new H4D/40 with extended support, 3 or 4 lenses, PLUS a certified pre-owned 39 meg Multishot came in roughly the same price as a 3 or 4 lens S2 system with support ... lower if you factor in that I can get used HC lenses and can't for the S2 ... yet.

So, to me, any trade promo argument was a moot point in a straight price comparison. In fact, I did not use any trade promo when altering my H system.

This provides me with enormous flexibility with a 2 camera kit: speed and lower light capability with the H4D/40 including the highly practical True Focus feature ... and Multi-Shot IQ that rivals the best digital solutions at any price for my studio applications ... including use of the MS back on various other cameras I already own. The Multishot is still no slouch even in single shot mode, and provides a back-up to the H4D/40 should the need ever occur.

I remain open to S2 advancements and do not shut it out as a possible solution. Needs change, photographic explorations change, abilities of cameras change.

-Marc

 

[markowich]

I'll respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I've had some extensive hands on time with the S2 and think it compares quite favorably with the other MF contenders... at least in IQ.

this judgement shows your patience in dealing with CA in LR3.
peter

 

[KETCH ROSSI]

Wow Marc,

elegantly put, and I think we stand in the exact same place as far were our hearths are for the Leica S2, fortunately for me Money is no issue, as I have been awaiting several months to do this, and ready for it financialy now, so I don't put the Price differences amongst systems in to play at all.

However it remains extremely important the factor that while the Leica S2 system has incredible Optics, the system it self has yet to impress, and on my first rather short test I wasn't sold, now I look to re-test the system along side the Leaf Aptus II 10, which both provide with what I love as far as 3:2 ratio and closer to my 2:1 and 16:9 framing I use in Cinema.

But as I look forward to get my MF system, I completely agree with you on all points, and I say this al the time even in Motion capture with the various arguments of Red One MX with Epic-X and ALexa from Arri etc. every one's opinion of perfect lighting and perfect Skin tone as well as color, contrast, and so on, varies, I for one have ben told that I have particular taste fro strong contrast and over saturated scenes, to each its own.

 

[pesto]

As has been so well and repeatedly said above, this is highly personal decision. Both camera systems are thoroughly competent and, to my way of thinking and personal experience, the importance of how comfortable you are with the ergonomics and the way each fits your specific needs can not be overstated. I do remain confused by all of the negative comments regarding the S2s' lenses and the problem of CA; I have recently spent several days shooting with an S2 and am convinced that they have the "best" lenses among those which I have had experience with which, in combination with the superb mirror dampening of the body, yielded some of the finest images I have ever shot using a reflex system. I saw no CA with the lenses that I used despite my diligent best efforts and found the rendition to be extremely pleasing and amazingly sharp
Be careful and thorough in your evaluation, purchasing mistakes are very hard to correct in this arena and extremely expensive...Good Luck!!!

Douglas Benson

 

[xpixel]

There is a new review in the german photographie magazine H4D-40 vs. Leica S2:

http://translate.google.ch/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photographie.de%2Fpage.php%3Fmodul%3DArticle%26op%3Dread%26nid%3D5033%26rub%3D14