Old "Newbie" Starting MF Research

[symbolphoto]

Yeah, we have time to go over it with our clients. Retouching is something we also specialize in. And it's certainly a profit center for us. Which is why we emphasize it so much and the MF argument just adds value to the overall proposition.

 

[fotografz]

First impressions my portrait clients have when reviewing shots done with a MFD camera ... "Oh my God it's so clear ... it looks so real"

I'll tell you what separates the men cameras from the boy cameras ... is when you enlarge a MFD portrait shot so the eye fills the 30" screen and you can flawlessly retouch the red veins out ... LOL!

On the subject of ISOs ... keep in mind end use sizes. Where you may be enlarging a 35mm shot a bit, the same shot done with a MFD is often reduced in size which lessens any apparent noise. With careful exposures, the ISO 800 and 1600 of my H4D/40 looks just as good as 800 or 1600 from any 35mm DSLR I've used (usually better due to lack of a pixel smearing strong AA filter like many 35mm DSLRs use). The H3D-II/31 wasn't far behind. I shoot MFD at 800 a good percentage of the time.

Plus, a MFD file is a closer print ratio than 35mm, so you toss less data when making standard prints.

-Marc

 

[David Schneider]

Marc,

I'm agreeing with, and liking, what you're saying.

I'm trying to increase my family portrait side of my business. For most people, I have to move them out of a comfort zone of price into an emotional state of "we NEED a family portrait." I'm looking at going back to mf in part to help them justify doing the portrait and having me do it. Would like a "men's camera" for that. You make a good point that retouching might be improved with mf and that's important to Mom.

At some point I'll test out images at ISO 800 and 1600 vs. same image taken with dlsr and enlarge a portion to see noise levels. Then run Noiseware and compare them again.

 

[symbolphoto]

This is going to sound totally superficial, but i've thought of getting a waist veiwfinder just to add to the appeal....

 

[David Schneider]

This is going to sound totally superficial, but i've thought of getting a waist veiwfinder just to add to the appeal....

Not at all. It's marketing and justifying the client's choice of you as a photographer. Nothing wrong with saying, "you've probably seen them use this camera on America's Next Top Model or the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Issue tv show."

My friend works for a studio that does about 150 weddings a year, plus portrait work. He was talking to me about how many Canon 5d/5dMarkII (and Nikon equivalent) cameras he sees guests using at weddings. And while those cameras are able to produce professional images, they have to be classified as pro-sumer cameras today. So whatever one can do to differentiate once's self in the market place is good.

In other words, a potential portrait client would rather go to a photographer using a camera with a waist viewfinder than a photographer using the same camera he sees in Best Buy. Now, that's not to say that client will still only purchase a couple of 8x10's, but he's talking to a friend in the office about photographers and they get into a pissing contest, you can be sure that mf camera will come up. I see a marketing value to using mf, even with my seniors, and certainly with the family portrait market.

 

[symbolphoto]

Well we have almost 40 weddings this year. So we are burnt out with just that many, i can't imagine having more than that per year. I'd go insane.

That being said, i agree with all your points and that's they way i look at it also. Wonder how much that puppy is... investigating.

 

[KeithL]

In other words, a potential portrait client would rather go to a photographer using a camera with a waist viewfinder than a photographer using the same camera he sees in Best Buy.

Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.

 

[symbolphoto]

KeithL, i understand what you are saying, and agree.

However, i'm talking about bringing back some antique style to the shoots. Not saying they should choose me based on viewfinder, after all, i'm not even sure how that'd work.

What i'm saying is increasing a clients awareness and understanding that what we offer is different.

 

[pcunite]

First impressions my portrait clients have when reviewing shots done with a MFD camera ... "Oh my God it's so clear ... it looks so real"

I get this all the time, using a 1D Mark III and 35L. The benefits of MFD are large output, other photographers looking at 100%, and retouchers. No need to try and say society as a whole gives a hoot. What ticks me off about MFD is the workflow, slow cameras, crappy LCD's, no raid in camera, and on and on. The files are wonderful, thankfully that is not a requirement...

 

[symbolphoto]

I get this all the time, using a 1D Mark III and 35L.

Really? Do you have a portfolio online?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.

I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.

 

[symbolphoto]

I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.

Exactly.

 

[David Schneider]

What Guy said.

In a perfect world, it's the man. But there's some truth to the clothes making the man. But marketing, personality, customer service, etc., all can be as important as the quality of a portfolio.

I saw on some thread this morning some guy took his RB67 out to a parade (guess he had a beer or two before he did that). It did get attention. One person even asked him if the camera did video!

 

[David Schneider]

What ticks me off about MFD is the workflow, slow cameras, crappy LCD's, no raid in camera, and on and on. The files are wonderful, thankfully that is not a requirement...

As someone looking to get back into mf, I agree! One nice feature of the Pentax 645n (should it ever show up) is dual card slots so you can back-up in-camera as you shoot. Workflow, it seems to me, could be simpler. I saw that Canon announced it's 120 megapixel sensor so who knows the actual effect on camera bodies, image capabilities and workflow. http://www.canon.com/news/2010/aug24e.html

 

[fotografz]

Then the client is simply a fool. They should pay attention to the photographer's portfolio not his camera.

Any photographer worth a light should be winning clients with their work, not their choice of viewfinder.

You may be right Keith, but I'm not going to tell them they are fools for what they may believe

I also think it is foolish to think that the general public who buys the wedding photography or portrait work being discussed here are photography experts with finely developed tastes and sophistication as you seem to imply. For many, this is their only foray into paying this kind of money for photography.

Yes, the work is how any client initially selects you ... along with up to half a dozen other shooters ... then they investigate further. Work that attracts them is the price of entry ... but is the tip of the Iceberg.

Not advocating running out and getting a MFD system because it will land more clients. However, in general, a professional looking studio can do wonders in shoring up the confidence of a client and separating you from a Rebel toting shooter who's work they also liked.

BTW, the biggest wedding I landed all year came down to a me or another shooter whom the client liked. I won because I shoot with a Leica, and the client heard it was the best camera. Did I argue with him? Now that wouldn't just be foolish, it'd be downright stupid. :ROTFL:

-Marc

 

[Guy Mancuso]

In simple terms it's a label buying society , right or wrong women buy Prada, Gucci, Coach and you name it. Not much different really. You look the part and play the part you get the work. There are many folks that ain't worth crap as a shooter. (Yes bad english and all) But they are making more revenue than a better shooter for some very simple reasons better at marketing and better business people. Yes it is not fair but life yada yada yada.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

BTW I know, I have more Manolo Blanik shoes in my closet to open a women's shoe store and the little muggin dog ate one yesterday and all hell broke lose. LOL

 

[pcunite]

I agree the work and talent come first BUT it really does pay dividends to look like a Pro and a meaty MF does do that. I get it on every photo shoot regardless of who it is , what is that question all the time . Which is good because than you can explain it if the client does not always know. I work with a lot of high tech. industry people, yes rocket scientist types and just the sight of this makes people ask questions. It does become a part of your total marketing scheme outside the images themselves. It becomes a added benefit to your business outside your normal work , talent and pricing.

I agree with this 100%, which is why I use Canon 1D bodies. Not that I absolutely need the additional quality in the files over the prosumer models (the electronics are better when reading from the sensor) but it helps show the customer that I do know what I am doing. Things like raid also give me piece of mind and I don't want to be tethered to a laptop.

 

[fotografz]

Well we have almost 40 weddings this year. So we are burnt out with just that many, i can't imagine having more than that per year. I'd go insane.

That being said, i agree with all your points and that's they way i look at it also. Wonder how much that puppy is... investigating.

40 weddings? I should be so lucky. I'd get selective and go for 20 or 25 which is about all I've ever been able to handle even with a second shooter. Exhausting.

-Marc

 

[pcunite]

Really? Do you have a portfolio online?

Yes, but I prefer to remain anonymous. I have posted some of my work here before.