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Phase P30 Plus in San Juan

Dale Allyn

New member
Guy, thank you. Your conclusion is what is bubbling to the surface for me too.

In my case, I have Canon gear, so the 1Ds3 is cheapest, but it doesn't get me much. The P45+ (and even the next lower tier) are too much expense for me right now. And when I say "I like large prints" I'm only talking about looking for good results at 24x36" to 30x40", not huge.

For now, 22MP will be the entry point for me. I just need to weigh the ZD against something used by one of the other makers. Mamiya is really doing something great in my opinion, to be giving access to MF to those of us who can't or won't drop $30K or $40K into it yet. That said, I guess one should consider the upgrade paths of each maker as well, if the long-term goal will include a higher model back in their line later.

Thank you.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I will post some files tomorrow for everyone to process these . I think from my point of view 22mpx backs are the perfect balance between over the DSLR and still at a great value versus performance price. Just be careful of used . In Aptus you will want the S models and Phase you really want the Plus series for that extra ISO stop
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Thanks for adding this, David. It makes sense and is important to keep in mind.

Sorry to have missed it at first. We're all cross-posting it seems. :)

I'd like to underscore the importance of higher ISO shooting that Guy mentioned above. At the risk of repeating what's already been said, the DOF on MF is really shallow... even at f/5.6 it's pretty easy to miss the point of focus. I've found that f/11 is where I like to shoot and at ISO 100 you can forget hand-held shots (at least I can forget them). The rule of thumb that many of us use when shooting 35mm, i.e. shooting at 1/focal length of the lens does not apply to MF. You can double that (at least) so if you're shooting a 110 mm lens you're going to want that shutter speed at 1/250th for hand-held. A good, clean ISO 400 file makes a world of difference in what and how you can shoot.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just to give you a slight idea of the resolving power and sharpness of this back , the P25 S is in the same league here and the 45 will even do better. The bad news is i am better than a brick wall for any of these detail tests. my wrinkles are far better than any wall test. LOL

Full image
Unsharpened
Sharpened slightly
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Guy,

Many of us are becoming "certified resolution test targets" with each passing year (or is that month?) :D

This looks great right out of the camera. It must be so nice to work without a strong AA filter. How do you feel the ZD compares to this? I know that you said it slips on the highlights a bit, but do find a huge difference in details of images which are not pushing the DR to the max?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I didn't shoot Guy with the ZD, but here's a statue I shot with it. 55 AF lens, so not the best, but an idea:
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Thanks, Jack. Is this sharpened or straight from the camera? It looks rather good, but a tough one for peepin'.

I don't expect the ZD back to give the performance of the P1 or other, more expensive backs. Just trying to gauge if one should skip the ZD and step up, even if it means needing to wait a bit. I'll try to get somewhere where I can shoot the ZD on an AFD II and then the same scene with a P1 or other make, so that only the back is the variable. Guess I'll need to head down to the Bay Area...
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
How long have the Phase + backs been on the market? I'm curious as to whether anything new that could potentially be introduced at Photokina might impact used prices of the backs going into fall.

Kurt
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
It's a great question Kurt and something I thought about also. There will always be something new. My bet you may see a ZD back before anyone else since there sort of due for a update. As far as detail and such between the 22 mpx backs , i would say there so close it is not something to stress over . There all the 9 micron style from what i know between them. The Plus on the Phase i believe is relatively new. Chris or Lance from CI maybe able to help here and explain there backs better than i can.
 

Clawery

New member
How long have the Phase + backs been on the market? I'm curious as to whether anything new that could potentially be introduced at Photokina might impact used prices of the backs going into fall.

Kurt
Kurt,

The P+ series have been out for about a year now, but you can still get some great deals on the non P+ backs. I'd be glad to talk to you about the P+ or non P+ Phase One backs.

I wish I had a crystal ball or a good idea of what was being released at Photokina this year, but I don't. Guy is correct that there will always be something new, but you can't go wrong with a new or used Phase One back.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
[email protected]
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell
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Dale Allyn

New member
There is some noticeable texture / grain pattern in the sky of Jack's statue closeup at ISO 200.
I noticed the same thing and wondered if was a compression issue since there seemed to be plenty of light otherwise. Having 'peeped some of the other ZD files, many of them were quite clean.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thanks, Jack. Is this sharpened or straight from the camera? It looks rather good, but a tough one for peepin'.

I don't expect the ZD back to give the performance of the P1 or other, more expensive backs. Just trying to gauge if one should skip the ZD and step up, even if it means needing to wait a bit. I'll try to get somewhere where I can shoot the ZD on an AFD II and then the same scene with a P1 or other make, so that only the back is the variable. Guess I'll need to head down to the Bay Area...
That has a light sharpening pass, but I posted an unsharpened crop below. I was using ISO 200 because I was hand-holding, and the thing we all learned is how much a tripod helps with MF detail -- it's the main reason Guy wants clean ISO 400. I did not run any NR and for my uses I can live with that level of noise. On the ZD, ISO 50 AND 100 are very clean, 200 is what you see, and 400 is pretty noisy.

Here is the same area, no sharpening, just as it comes off the camera out of ACR:
 

Dale Allyn

New member
Thank you, Jack.

All of this information is very helpful to those of us (at least me) who haven't spent time with these cameras/backs.

I can fully understand Guy's need for the higher ISO capabilities. I'll be wrestling with whether I can afford (or justify) starting out with a back which is better at higher ISOs, or if I should just get my feet wet with a less expensive solution.

Thanks for all this help, guys.
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
Since I don't do a lot of studio work, I'm most interested in the high ISO capability of the P30+. I'd want to use it handheld as the mother of all walkarounds and for events etc., with minimal if any flash. (I like to do things differently than most ... it's a swimming upstream thing.)

Guy, whenever you are able to dig one out, I'm dying to see what ISO 800 and 1600 look like on the P30+. ;)

All of your comments have been great.

Kurt
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Here is a detail crop of another image to help show detail from the ZD, a 4 second tripod exposure, f11, ISO 50 and it was drizzling when I took this...

The full image:


The detail crop:
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Since I don't do a lot of studio work, I'm most interested in the high ISO capability of the P30+. I'd want to use it handheld as the mother of all walkarounds and for events etc., with minimal if any flash. (I like to do things differently than most ... it's a swimming upstream thing.)

Guy, whenever you are able to dig one out, I'm dying to see what ISO 800 and 1600 look like on the P30+. ;)

All of your comments have been great.

Kurt
Will be on it tomorrow, have to get ready for my wife's 50th BD dinner
 

BJNY

Member
Sorry, Jack.
I'm not picking on your ZD, always calling it as I see it.
The noise under the rocks at 1, 4 & 9 o' clock is not good, especially at ISO 50.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
As a person who didnt think too much about light intensity when shooting 35mm digi, I find myself now thinking as much about how much light as well as quality of light when using my MFD backs. Not enough light is a totally different issue to quality of light.

In the end, one has to use a tripod if the quality of light playing on a scene (ala jack's shot above) makes a shot worthwhile even though intensity of light is lacking. SO you get your tripod out , think about the compromises that have to be made between extreme shadows in the nooks and crannies versus beautiful dancing highlights off glistening wet leaves and make a long exposure at low ISO.

For this reason, I don't get too excited about so called high ISO in MFD backs..the less light you feed these backs the less impressive the image IQ.

[ btw - as an aside - the ONLY difference between a Leaf 75 and a 75s (that I know of ) is shooting speed - again a 35mm land preoccupation.. Telling people who may be interested in image quality that "you dont' want" a non s back from Leaf - and I hear this a lot - makes me scratch my head. I must have missed something not related to image IQ when happily using the non 's' version. ]

A high ISO MFD back which shoots multiple frames per second is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist ..for anyone except a fashion shooter ..and then the difference between a frame every .8 seconds versus 9 frames a second..is a LOT bigger than .8 versus 1.4 frames a second... LOL

just my thoughts .
 
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