Help, I'm thinking of going with Sinar Hy6, 54 LV

[Fred Ragland]

Thanks Chuck, to testify that we (Sinar and its distributors) care for our customers.

David's issues are already taken care of, of course. We never leave a customer alone, even if sometimes the response and addressing the issue isn't as fast as expected.

Thierry

Like several others of us, I'm moving from Canon 1 series to medium format. The learning curve is steep but manageable with the help of experience shared by others such as the members of this panel.

After carefully studying several threads, including the extensive "H2 or Hy6" discussion, the picture seemed to be coming together well until I saw the comments on David K's experiences in this thread. Then I realized that while there have been many positive comments about particular dealers, no one was commenting about distributor support. If its being said, its being said privately. I'm based in the U.S. and will rely on U.S. suppliers.

I'm looking forward to seeing David K's comments and the replies from others on the panel.

Fred

 

[DavidWM]

Hi Mitchell,
I have done a lot of flight photography of birds years ago before I became a commercial photographer. I used to use an infared light beam set up and prefocus at the point at which I would calculate the bird to be in after flying through the beam. That position depends on the delay between the trigger being initiated by the bird and moment of exposure. If you use a focus trap instead of a beam, the system will be the same in that there will be some delay between the trigger and the exposure. I expect the trouble with a focus trap may be that you will be required to focus at the point where the trigger is initiated, which will not be where the bird is by the time the exposure occurs. Small birds travel fast. I think the answer will depend on if the Hy6 can use focus trap in a mirror-up mode and the amount of shutter delay when used in that mode. The ability to focus on a small, fast subject would be very demanding. I would be surprised if it worked, maybe if you could manually over-ride the system so that the actual point focus is slightly different to what the camera thinks it is, so after some testing you have more idea of where you want the focus to be. On exposure duration speeds, I found around 1/5000 sec was needed to stop the wings of small birds, so that came from the flash, not the shutter. The fast flash synch of the Hy6 would be great if you decide to use flash. Hope this helps.
David

Thanks everyone,

As it is now, for the birds I prefocus on a tripod, and I strongly doubt (I have no experience with this, please tell me if I'm wrong) that any auto focus would be fast enough to catch a a small bird at 3 feet as it flies through the frame. I don't want to blow the images of birds up much past their real life size. The advantage I would get from medium format is the ability to crop heavily, as it is a trick to catch the birds in the frame at all, much less compose them well. I've found that 1/750- 1/1000, which is in the range of the Hy6, is the critical shutter speed to stop the wings. DOF and ISO are critical only as they relate to focus on the bird, but that is a big issue. Need lots of sun. (Not interested in flash.)

 

[thsinar]

Guy,

I have, spoken with David offline, and his issues are dealt with and most have found their answer, I believe. But I shall let David tell this himself.

FYI: Michael Ulsaker, Sinar dealer from Ulsaker Studios has been contacting David and gone through the issues, as well as Colin King from SBI, our distributor.

Nobody is left alone, when needing help, being it a "learning curve" issue or serious issues. I wanted this to be said and known.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry he has some real issues . You should speak to him offline.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Chuck - I have to admit being a bit tongue in cheek regarding my response to Victor i have just finished using a complete Contax system with a Phase One back for about a month. I have to say that there are many aspects of this camera system which appeal to me - most especially is the relatively quiet shutter! The lenses are a mixed bag in terms of quality - my favourites being the 45mm and the 80.

It is a great shame teh company is no longer making them - i Must say I have a personal gripe about the battery gobbling capability of this camera though..and autofocus isnt as good as on other ( newer?) systems I am using..

hmm

interesting that one can still buy these things new.does that include the lenses and acessories? I would be interested to know

Thanks
Pete

Pete, yep, the new examples have everything in the box just like it was still in production. Amazing when you think about it really. So far at least, there hasn't been a problem with finding gear available though some of the items are in such demand that it has pushed prices up considerably on those.

I find both the 45 and especially the 80 to be two of my own personal favorites as well. You also want to shoot the 55 and the 140. That 140 is way under rated from my use, and the 55 is just a pure pleasure. But my own number one personal favorite lens on my Contax is the HB 110/f2 FE. Magic, for my type of work. I also really love the HB 50mm f2.8. It's a big tank of a lens, about the size of the Contax 35mm, and really nice. One of the reasons I have stayed with the Contax system is the wide variety of glass that I can use with it.

Autofocus in my experience is WAY over rated. Sure, it can rapidly get you into the ballpark, when it works instead of just sitting there hunting. But it rarely gets me the exact focus plane I want. Sharp nose and fuzzy eyes are NOT acceptable, as an example. This applies to MF or any other format also. NONE of the AF systems I have used would I ever rely on completely to get me where I want to go, save if I were to shoot everything at f16. Given I am normally shooting wide open or close to it, autofocus is not only worthless to me, it is downright frustrating coming home and seeing that most all the captures are half an inch off my desired focus plane. So I just keep the autofocus set on the rear button with all my cameras, and "do it by hand to get it right." A bit more work, sure, but at least the ones I get I like for the most part. To me, it is kind of like using cruse control on my car. Fine for an interstate, but when performance driving I want nothing to do with it. I am the master of my own fate, I have little tolerance with owning tools that want to think for themselves

 

[Jack]

Thierry:

David is a personal friend of mine and I just want to extend my own personal thank you for your speedy response in assisting him with his issues. In my view, quality support on any MF digital back should be priority one when considering which family of backs to purchase -- as we know, not all companies are the same here... It is great to see your active participation here as well, and I'm sure it instills additional confidence in the support available from Sinar.

Thanks,

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy,

I have, spoken with David offline, and his issues are dealt with and most have found their answer, I believe. But I shall let David tell this himself.

FYI: Michael Ulsaker, Sinar dealer from Ulsaker Studios has been contacting David and gone through the issues, as well as Colin King from SBI, our distributor.

Nobody is left alone, when needing help, being it a "learning curve" issue or serious issues. I wanted this to be said and known.

Best regards,
Thierry

This is excellent Thierry and i knew you would jump in with both feet to solve any of his issues. We all want what is best for all companies and all users to be a rewarding and a fruitful experience. My job or should I say my role in photography is to help people be better at what they do and in this spirit I do look at the sales reps and other employee's of these companies and get issues solved and working. I like to be involved and help everyone I can and that is part of the purpose of GetDPI forums. Jack and i want a place that is home to everyone and we are all great dinner guests at the big round table. We like having all the reps here that we can learn from and also help us when needed. Thanks for jumping in. Guy

 

[gogopix]

Anyone unsure about platform choice or wants to use multiple systems should consider a back with an adapter system. Phase backs are nice but lack this vital feature. The one trick they have up their sleeve is the very long exposure, but this is a niche feature.



The Hy6 looks about the same size as the other players. Why do you think it is large?

People have universally praised the ergonomics. Why do you call it cumbersome? How long have you used the Hy6?

It provides many advantages over the Contax. Flash sync up to 1/1000 compared to 1/125, all parts are still available new, larger selection of lenses, built-in colour temp sensor, more viewfinder options, metering is not built into the finder so it works with WLF too, better battery life, focus trapping, focus bracketing, ability to control camera from computer, a tilt-shift lens, integrated light grid projector for AF assistance in low light, 6x6 film option, and the system is still growing.

Nothing against the Contax at all but there are real differences to consider.

Graham as usual, excellent points; however, mostly oriented towards studio vs field work. I do maybe 10% inside shoots, some protrait, some commercial for brochures and shows. All for my company, so I guess it is not professional (only had a few paid engagements) in the 'for money' sense. But many photographers are in the same situation. (I don't want to get into what's professional, but a friend of mine, a professor of math, was one of the best custom furnature makers in the world-he just didnt sell! them. Museum have looked at his stuff.)

For field work, protability and confidence are key. Handling, physical size, ease of getting the job done. None of what you mentioned matters to me, or many 'field' photographers, and I would see the Hy6 and H3D as tremendous tools for inside work.

Maybe I shoiuld have pointed that out at the start. I don't know what the poster here has in mind for the camera, and as I said, if studio work (although Irackly and others swear by Contax) I wouldn't see the Contax so strong for them, ONLY because of the SYnch speed (but you know, a little light planning would help, Except for high speed, in which case I want the 1/4,000 ambient light speed, the synch speed I think is WAY overplayed. Sorry but I also think that the whole leaf shutter business is also way overplayed.)

As I have pointed out a number of times, I am in the position to buy whatever I want. I also got "THAT CLOSE" to the H3DII 31.

Then I listed nthe things I would get for my $60,000

higher synch rate (but slower field shiutter speed)
Faster, maybe, AF
New lenses, but not clear any better
New software, yeh, for Mac


hmmm... that's it

similar for Hy6 Sinar

just not worth even getting up to speed. At 65, I dont have any 'toy' value time.

so, just want others to know what the options are. We are all fans of our tools, but we also should be clear what we use them for (and I hope this post clarifies that)

That said-The ISO Sinar was impressive
SOme HB lenses look almost as good as the Contx and HB V
The Rollie is similar, but what lens is better?

When I want a REALLY good lens, then I get out of AF retrofocus all together and use the Alpa-with non retro focus lenses. Talk about images so sharp you can cut youself.

well
end
filled too much space here

regards
Victor

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Take a look at the Contax 645 and a Phase back.

From what I can see, the Hy6 syetm is expensive, large, cumbersome and provides little advantage over the Contax.

If you are hell bent on leaf shutters or need synch speeds over 125, by all means pursue.

If not,

The Hasselblad is also very expensive, a closed system and has flaky software.

But hey, just my oppinion after looking at these for some time.

I cannot comment on handling. However, the files from both seem no better than the Contax,
the contax glass is great, and the performance of the Phase is as good as any.

Victor

PS: OK, you could also go for the Mamiya; but you won't get the glass!

Victor:

I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

*larger, brighter viewfinder
*ergonomically adjustable grip
*the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter
*advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come
*flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second
*access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more
*45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree
*readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition
*parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years

If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Graham as usual, excellent points; however, mostly oriented towards studio vs field work.

Interesting that you see it that way. I usually shot outdoors too I see those all as being helpful to shooters wherever they are working, though some things like computer control are more likely to be indoors. Issues such as better battery life are of MORE relevance to field shooters than studio shooters.

the synch speed I think is WAY overplayed. Sorry but I also think that the whole leaf shutter business is also way overplayed.)

If you are using only natural light for landscape photography and the like, then I agree. If you want to shoot people in the sun you will almost certainly need a decent flash sync speed to get good results. I suspect you are mainly interested in landscape photography?

When I want a REALLY good lens, then I get out of AF retrofocus all together and use the Alpa-with non retro focus lenses. Talk about images so sharp you can cut youself.

Yes those lenses are fantastic and much more suited to landscape and architecture than people shooting

 

[Jack]

Victor:

I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

I'd like to add my .02 point to this: I am 6'-6" tall, or just a few cm under 2 meters. At my height when shooting typical models, a waist level finder is a *huge* benefit for the lower shooting perspective. BUT, a WL finder on a camera with the back stuck in landscape orientation is essentially useless when shooting models, and definitely more useless than the same camera with a prism finder.

Hence, a system that offers a WLF where I can also rotate the back to portrait orientation is ideal. Add in good AF and right now I think that limits the playing field to the Hy6. I had shared this thinking with David Kipper as he was deciding which new system to go with, and I think it may have been his main deciding factor for taking the plunge with the Rollei. After shooting with David's camera at our model shoot session in Puerto Rico, I can confirm that combination was essentially a magic UI for me, the total ergo-package of WL composing and portrait orientation just works in that situation.

As for the size difference between the Rollei 6x6, my Mamiya AFD, the Contax 645 I used to own and the Hassy H's I've rented, the difference is virtually insignificant, essentially a non-issue.

Cheers,

 

[fotografz]

Victor:

I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

*larger, brighter viewfinder
*ergonomically adjustable grip
*the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter
*advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come
*flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second
*access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more
*45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree
*readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition
*parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years

If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

Steve, you have to stop confusing the issue with the facts ....

 

[David K]

For those who expressed an interest in the difficulties I've had with my Sinar Hy6/75LV kit I've prepared the list below. As will be evident after reading it, most of the problems are learning curve related. The others should be addressed when I receive the new and updated back. My friends who were with me at the San Juan workshop were helpful and supportive during this teething phase. (That is, when they weren't torturing me with jokes like: Hey David, too bad you don't have any images to edit during the one on one sessions ) Frankly, having these problems during the workshop was probably the best thing that could have happened. I had knowlegeable professionals to discuss things with. There's a lot of good natured rivalry between the different manufacturers but I think it's worth mentioning that Lance, from Capture Integration, spent a good deal of time with me trying to help with a product that is a direct competitor to his. He helped with the formatting of the CF card that went bad and was kind enough to rotate the back in the wrong direction for me. Just kidding

Problem: Corrupted images when transferring from internal memory to CF card.
Cause: Removed card from back before it was finished with transfer.
Comment: The light showing that this process is ongoing is inside the door where the CF card is located and is not the same light that shows the back is busy during normal operation. Now that I know where it is, this won't happen again.


Problem: Corrupted images when shooting to CF card
Cause: Ridata 8GB card is apparently not compatible with this back even after being formatted in camera.
Comment: The image on the screen does not show that the files are bad. New cards should be tested to see if they are compatible. No problems with my San Disk Ducati cards. Additional protection available by shooting to CF card and backing up to internal memory.

Problem: Images not captured after revolving back to portrait mode.
Cause: The back mounts to the camera when rotating either clockwise or counterclockwise but only takes images if rotated correctly. The contacts need to be lined up when rotating the back.
Comment: Probably should be addressed at the design stage but it won't happen to me again.

Problem: Inadvertent changing of Aperture setting when shooting in Aperture Priority mode.
Cause: The wheel that changes the aperture setting is very close to the shutter release button and it is quite easy to turn it by accident. This setting can be locked with appropriate programing of the soft key but it does not stay locked when the camera goes to sleep.
Comment: Not sure if this is a malfunction on my camera but, if not, should be fixed with a firmware update.

Problem: Importing images into eXposure Software
Cause: Not intuitive (for me) how this was done. The import tab is not visible until after the import is complete.
Comment: Better instructions would be nice. Simple and elegant conversion once you get the images imported

Problem: Inadvertent change of exposure mode.
Cause: Fumbling fingers.
Comment: Seems to me there should be a locking mechanism to prevent this like there is on the Nikon D3 or the Leica R9, or alternatively, to have the ability to remove the control of these items to the menu system as can be done when shooting tethered.

Problem: Screen color does not match WB setting.
Cause: Apparently need to WB with an image shot to internal memory.
Comment: Leave a few images shot under different lighting on on the 6GB internal memory and select one for WB before shooting. Would prefer not having to do this, but not the end of the world either.

Problem: Incorrectly exposed images
Cause: Improper setting (my fault) in menu which locks exposure until changed.
Comment: Better instructions in the manual are needed. IMHO, this setting should return to default, i.e. unlocked after the back is powered off.

Problem: Higher ISO shots exhibit excessive noise.
Comment: Should be addressed with delivery of new and upgraded back.

To conclude this rather long winded post there is nothing wrong with system that should give a prospective purchaser concern about buying it. Also, keep in mind that this is a list of only the problems I've run into, and not a list of the positive aspects of the system. The good images I've taken at ISO 100 are nothing short of spectacular. If any of the folks that pm'd me have additional questions that I haven't addressed please feel free to contact me again. I'm happy to share whatever knowledge I've picked up along the way. BTW, got another two emails today from Sinar folks offering their assistance. Last point... thanks again to Jack and Guy for hosting this forum. What a great community we have here.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Victor:

I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

*larger, brighter viewfinder
*ergonomically adjustable grip
*the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter
*advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come
*flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second
*access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more
*45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree
*readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition
*parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years

If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

Damn Steve i look at that shot and i am starting to shake. from the gear heads we just can't handle that much sex in one photo.:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

 

[Graham Mitchell]

For those who expressed an interest in the difficulties I've had with my Sinar Hy6/75LV kit I've prepared the list below...

Thanks for posting and setting our minds at rest. I was a little concerned that you were having hardware difficulties (and I plan to get a Hy6 too eventually) but we all have a few teething problems like these on the first day or two.

Happy shooting!

 

[Fred Ragland]

Thanks for posting and setting our minds at rest. I was a little concerned that you were having hardware difficulties (and I plan to get a Hy6 too eventually) but we all have a few teething problems like these on the first day or two.

Happy shooting!

Yes, thank you David for taking the time to share your startup experiences with us.

Fred

 

[Dale Allyn]

Chiming in to express my thanks to David as well, for his informative and humble post.

All of this shared information is incredibly valuable to those of us looking to enter the MFDB realm.

Cheers

 

[gogopix]

Victor:

I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

First, you have to consider that the Hy6 camera is a 6x6 camera. This doesn't make it cumbersome and large is a relative term. The Contax is a great camera, but it is a 645 camera, the Hy6 is a 6x6. It is natural for the Hy6 to be bigger than the Contax. If size is the prequisite, then perhaps 6x6 format is not the option someone should be looking at. Unless other considerations matter, such as:

*larger, brighter viewfinder (I use MAxwell improves finder 2 stops)
*ergonomically adjustable grip (subjective. The contax grip works just fine)
*the lack of a necessary "wake-up" tap before releasing the shutter (no, you can just take the image, but it will take time for AE and AF, as will any sleeping camera)
*advanced features like "focus trap" and more to come (dont need. actually use MF mostly)
*flash sync speeds up to 1/1000th of a second (again, rather have the 1/4000)
*access to many of the same lenses the Contax uses and more (the HB; yes, I agree)
*45 degree finder, in addition to the WLF and 90 degree (contax finders are small and work well)
*readily available from the manufacturer in warrantied condition (yes, of course)
*parts and service guaranteed to be readily available for years (ditto)

If these other items matter, and size is not the only criteria, then I think anyone should consider the Hy6. Is it expensive? Well, that again is a relative term. It is more expensive than the Contax, but then most products that are still in production tend to be more expensive than products which are no longer in production since you're buying them new instead of used.

Regarding Hasselblad, again being expensive is a relative term, The only MF camera system that can be had for significantly less than the Hy6/H3D systems is the Contax, which is fine if you don't mind the disadvantages against the Hy6 posted above. Even the new Mamiya AFDIII is no longer a budget camera as the new digital lenses for this product cost as much (and more) than the lenses for the H3D.

Also, you stated Hasselblad software is "Flaky". Can you please go into more detail here? Generally the term "Flaky" is used to describe a product that is quirky or unstable, and the Hasselblad software, whether it is Flexcolor or even the new Phocus software is anything but. Flexcolor has been one of the most rock solid applications that any of my customers deal with. I know, because I monitor all of the tech support issues. And Flexcolor has been great.

The H3D is indeed a "closed" system, just like the Canon and Nikon and ...

All that "closed" means is that should you decide to change, you'll be selling a camera and some lenses in addition to the digital back. It's not like buying a closed system locks you into something where you suddenly have no choice. And you benefit from the advantages of the integration.

As much as I feel the Hy6 and H3D are great camera systems, remember that Leaf, Sinar and Hasselblad all make excellent digital backs for any MF camera - some, like Hasselblad and Sinar, with user changeable camera adapter kits. So, if you're looking for the most versatility possible, a Sinar or Hasselblad on any camera - or camera{s} - you want is an awesome and affordable solution.

BTW - below are some size comparison images between the cameras (unfortunately didn't have a digital back for the Contax/Mamiya available at the time of shooting).

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

I don't see any more of interest in your list, for me.

Now on size, WOW, that tells it all.

The Contax is clearly smaller (only Mamiya is similar, yet fatter in the middriff

Think of cube. If the Contax is only 10-20 % smaller in any dimasion that translates to 1.1 **3 to 1.2**3 or a factor of of 33 to 73% overall 'cube" increase.

You know, It's a bit like rooting for you favorite team; we have our brand favorites and we defend and yell and argue.

but, know what? it's all MAJOR LEAGUE. the MF stuff is all great compared to what we had when I was growing up (though B&W view cameras did some pretty amazing things!

ANyway, It gets all the opinions out there and mixes stuff up. Always good to get new ideas, and I assume the Contax will NOT be my last camera :ROTFL:

 

[PeterA]

A very interesting thread indeed! Glad to hear that your issues were teething problems David - happy shooting!

 

[Rethmeier]

Same here!
I was starting to get a bit worried,if I had gone the right direction too!
Cheers,
Willem.

 

[Mitchell]

David,

Thanks so much for your very informative post! It reminds me that moving to MF is not a small thing, but I'm convinced it will be worthwhile.

Best,

Mitchell