Special Report/Phase LS and Elinchrom Speed Transmitter

[Jack]

The new Skyport Speed does NOT work at any higher sync speeds with LS lenses/cameras than its predecessor did. For now it seems that if we want 1/1600th sync wirelessly, the only solution is the newest Profoto AirSync unit (which incidentally only allows wireless synch to 1/1500th). http://www.profoto.com/products/profoto/accessories/sync_and_remote_devices/air-sync

The Skyport SPEED unit does allow for faster sync with FOCAL PLANE systems in newer DSLR's up to 1/250th where the prior unit was limited to 1/125th IIRC. Also, effective working range is DOUBLED over previous model when using SPEED mode. There is also some improvement for use with smaller P&S cameras: http://www.elinchrom.com/products.php

 

[kdphotography]

Jack,

I'm on PWs, but picked up a cheap Cybersync set because of its claimed ability to trigger wirelessly up to 1/2500. Of course, I'm jumping the gun here because I have not even acquired any of the Phase LS lenses yet! We did not have enough time to test the Cybersync triggers at Capture Integration in Carmel.

You wanna test Paul Buff's Cybersynch triggers on your Phase DF and LS lenses? I could drop it off to you....

ken

 

[robmac]

No RF engineer and know just enough to be dangerous, but the radio freq itself won't help (beyond avoiding interference), it comes down to reducing the latency within the "hey, the shutter was pressed", encode, transmit, "hey I have signal", receive, decode, close trigger circuit.

Unfortunately radio triggers have gotten more feature-rich (power adjustment, modeling light on/off, etc) and depending how that is done (e.g. receiver having to look for different bit patterns to determine what it is being asked to do), it could also slow the process down vs just a simple fast trigger.

I suspect it will come down to:

-Reducing the latency in the electronics (faster processors/encodes/decoders), etc.
-Reduce number of bits transmitted (less to process/interpret on both ends)
-As Adam indicates, constant communication between Rcv and Trx so no 'wake up' (lack of better term) needed and (I'm guessing here) Rcv is simply looking for a bit to change within the signal to indicate 'trigger flash'
-Don't know if any of the the units do any error-checking, but if so, reducing need for it and/or speeding it up.
-Improvements in reaction and trigger times of flash units themselves
- etc

Will likely come down to an additive effect of shaving 1/1000th off here, another 1/750th of there, etc., and every manufacturer will approach it differently. Part of the priority they place on doing it will also be where their market lies.

I suspect Profoto and Bron will consider it a higher priority given the markets they sell to and the fact they can better recoup the costs of a dual-personality radio system (fast or rich) and their price points vs Eli at what they charge for Skyport.

 

[Jack]

You wanna test Paul Buff's Cybersynch triggers on your Phase DF and LS lenses? I could drop it off to you....

ken

Absolutely, bring them by! However, bring your body and back too -- both of mine are off getting FW updates and the 1/1600th hardware upgrade... I have two LS lenses and a couple different packs we can sync to, but they're both Elinchroms so we'll need a sync adapter cord for the Buff units! (I have male mini phono to Elinchrom, not sure what the Buff's use?)

 

[adamduckworth]

I do know some of the people at Elinchrom and I believe the Speed was aimed at letting people with focal plane DSLRS achieve their maximum sync speed with Skyport, not anything for LS lenses.

That's why the Profoto system was developed with Phase and thereofre is designed to work with it.

I know Pocket Wizard, when the LS and 1/1600th flash sync came out, were unaware of it and the PW boss said it was unlikely their current PWs could be made to work that fast.

 

[kdphotography]

Absolutely, bring them by! However, bring your body and back too -- both of mine are off getting FW updates and the 1/1600th hardware upgrade... I have two LS lenses and a couple different packs we can sync to, but they're both Elinchroms so we'll need a sync adapter cord for the Buff units! (I have male mini phono to Elinchrom, not sure what the Buff's use?)

Jack, The Cybersync uses a standard mini-phone male to whatever light connection---or for the Elinchrom's, a mini-phone male to mini-phone male.

I have plenty of those....as well as miniphone male to standard phono male; miniphone to pc; miniphone to Household or H.

We'll have to wait for your P65+ to get back from Denmark; I have not upgraded my DF or P65+ for the 1/1600 flash sync (only normal LS 1/800th) as I don't have any LS lenses yet and don't have a block of time yet to spare that I can be without the camera/back....

It will be interesting if the Cybersync works with the higher flash sync, especially given their inexpensive price point. They do seem to work in normal studio application, but I'm not a fan and these have stayed in the box. It's probably my bias towards having used PWs for so long.

Give a call when ready and we can coordinate...

ken

 

[symbolphoto]

Absolutely, bring them by! However, bring your body and back too -- both of mine are off getting FW updates and the 1/1600th hardware upgrade... I have two LS lenses and a couple different packs we can sync to, but they're both Elinchroms so we'll need a sync adapter cord for the Buff units! (I have male mini phono to Elinchrom, not sure what the Buff's use?)

Please report any results you may have.

 

[symbolphoto]

Yeah, i agree. They maxed out at around 1/320th a second, so i think they probably were focused on the FP market.

Now i have some other questions for some of you 'in-the-know'...

1. Is it a matter of offsetting the trigger so that the T5 is caught at the right time with these faster shutter speeds?

2. Or is it a function of the shutter just being too plain fast to pickup enough light, regardless of where it hits the flash duration?

 

[robmac]

Don't know if I'm "in the know' or not, but you could improve the amount of light passing through the shutter if you managed to offset the shutter release enough to hit the sweet spot of when the flash output curve peaks, but there would be a boatload of variables that, I THINK, would cause a lot of hair-pulling by the user.

I suspect camera-to-camera, strobe-to-strobe and shot-to-shot (with same gear) exposure would vary due to manufacturing variances between camera bodies, differences between strobes and even shot-to-shot variances in real vs labeled shutter speeds.

E.g. If a fixed offset was used to give the flash a 'head start', plus/minus even a minuscule amount in real vs set shutter speed between shots could cause +/- exposure issues as you missed that ideal sweet spot.

I also wonder what effect it might have on variances in color temp as you're primarily capturing (or trying to capture) the strobe at it's peak output only (e.g. trying to cut-off or effectively minimize both tails of the light output curve.

Interesting discussion.

 

[symbolphoto]

Interesting discussion.

Agreed. I thought some wireless flash system use offsets, maybe PocketWizard? For HSS, i wonder if that'd have any affect on this issue?

 

[robmac]

The PW TT_ uses offset, but have read of users seeing inconsistent results after choosing a timing offset - with the first shot apparently being problematic (no idea why).

 

[symbolphoto]

So what's the word with the grip? 1/1600th work yet? Is it in anyone's hands yet?

I emailed Elinchrom, haven't heard back anything yet.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Wish it was in mine. My back should be home from Denmark today with new hardware update for 1/1600 and my DF should be home from NY with a new firmware update. I'm Phaseless at the moment waiting on Fed X

 

[symbolphoto]

Hurry up FEDEX, inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well the back is here from Denmark but the body is not. Damn looks like tomorrow for the body and yes I AM inpatient. LOL

 

[symbolphoto]

I know what you mean, when i was waiting for the H3DII-31 in the mail, i was basically watching the seconds hand on my watch... tick tock..

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay UPS showed up with Body, surprise. So NOW everything is in place to test which I will do 1st thing in morning and see if I can squeeze some more out of the wireless. Than i really need to get out and shoot the new 55mm LS and 80 LS. Im pretty excited about these lenses

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hmm pretty dang cool with a Metz 54 on the shoe I can go to 1/500 of a second at 1/2 power than faster I start losing light by about 1/3 to 1/2 by 1/1600. Now you may have to be careful with duration time and not go full power since it may cut off and that is the case just tried Full power and start losing light after 1/250 and looks like duration time is the issue. Okay that makes perfect sense . Let me try 1/4 power and basically the same as 1/2 at 1/250 is the brightest , 1/500 maybe 1/3 less, 1/800 looks like a 1/3rd and 1/1600 a 1/2 a stop for sure. Neat part is you could adjust at the 1/1600 and open up some. BTW I am reading the histo on the back and can see it go left as I increase the shutter speed. I'm actually packing for a gig but thought I would at least try it out. I could do more formal testing but not sure that would buy us anything. Real men just shoot. LOL

Try the Quadra now

 

[Guy Mancuso]

End of the day on the Metz is the duration time is going to be the bigger issue as not enough power at the lower settings to be really useful in real world . But at least you can get a strong 1/500 at Full Power and only lose a touch power. Not sure about anyone else but with portables big deal it is the real meat we are after here. Bring on the big guns. LOL

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay off to the Quadra at Full Power which this is a battery operated 400 watt system with CORD at 1/800 dead on the money at 1250 and 1600 I lose 1/2 of a stop . And even at the lower settings I am losing light. Now I do NOT have the A head which is a much faster head but the S standard head. Good news here at least 1/800 at full power is good with cord. Given that lets try the wireless at lower settings and just see where the wireless cuts off so we avoid the flash duration.

Wireless with the new Elinchrom Speed transmitter i can safely go to 1/400th than it starts to cut off as before. Conclusion you can get 1/1600 with the Profoto setup and the Elinchrom 1/400. That is wireless. For CORD with any unit you use you need to have fast flash durations but yes folks it works.

Here we go : with this special A speed head, you can freeze action at 1/6000 of a second. Looks like I want that head over the standard

I will try my Monolights this week and their specs are Flash duration is an extremely fast 1/1558 sec. Okay need to lower power to increase flash duration on these

Damn I may just have to get Profotos. Now I know why I hate testing. IT COST ME MONEY

Well we learned one thing for sure it does work given fast enough flash duration at 1/1600 and we know the Elinchrom wireless is good at 1/400 which is not bad considering but we know from Phase that you can do wireless with the Profoto remotes which maybe the ultimate answer here.

Not sure this helps anyone or just spends their money. Sorry folks I am not responsible. LOL