Regards . Jürgen .
You might like this image more than the previous one .
The little markers 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 would still be on the new scale ring and of course would correspond to the other little markers .
Regards . Jürgen .
got it, thanks!
In your first image there were 4 dots on the ring with the aperture indication and so I thought they would matter for you.
Okay, the DF with TS lenses is more bulky and heavier than a tech camera and you have to take care about shutter and mirror shake etc. Then again, if you need movements just from time to time, this might be the better choice for you personally...?
Thanks Paul and that is good news.
Now I am waiting to see images of the lens scales in both metric and inches before I decide which ones to get.
Maybe this will help.
Here is a chart showing every increment measured on the HPF ring for the Schneider 72mm.
It shows the increments in both meters and feet and even includes measurements for all of the extension tubes.
There will eventually be a chart like this for every lens in the Alpa lineup, but for practical use of course the chart is not needed (in my opinion).
Paul - Many thanks, that is very helpful!
The practicability of "5x 360°" and of the corresponding special system where you have to "translate" meters/feet in a peculiar division system from e.g. 1 to 34 is another matter.
"Ouch! It looks like Alpa is eating their own words on this topic."
Are they? It looks like the ALPA ring is measured in feet or meters.
Well, I guess it can be debated whether the Alpa rings are really any better or worse than the Arca-Swiss R system in the field. The Arca-Swiss R cameras really shine due to the coupling of its lenses to their electronic focusing mechanism. It provides a much faster and more accurate way to not only focus but also provide depth of field and leveling.
Another very useful difference in the field is in the ability to incorporate untethered shift with the Arca-Swiss R cameras. For example, in order to shift untethered with the new Alpa STC (or the older Max), you still have to take the digital back on and off the camera body to frame every shot. With the Arca-Swiss, you can compose with shift using their viewfinder, which allows one to frame and align the digital back without removing it from the body.
Overall, I find the Arca-Swiss R system to have more focusing and framing capability in the field.
klepacki, glad you love your arca but with all due respect, i agree with thomas. . . .the alpa finder masks work well and btw the phase lcd is useful too for this purpose. i own a max and other alpa cameras. in the field, i never ever had to take the back off from my max to frame any shot for stitching or non-stitching.
for posting the chart . That is exactly what I meant with "a little table" .
Looking at the distance scale (for example image in #52) I understand that the space between any marker on the precision scale corresponds to one degree of 270 and the space between the longer marks equals to 5 degrees .
If that is true , I ask myself , why do we not have the shorter marks on the other side of the scale ring as well ? ? ?
As the short marks are missing there , you will not be able to focus precisely between two 5 degree markers and the lenses chart wont help you either .
I hope that the ALPA people will see what I mean and explain the HPF ring
in a bit more detail .
Regards . Jürgen .
But of course these Alpa finders show even less distortion and there is no finder that is brighter :-)
but they show no shift and they are very expensive...
All these cameras have a (round about) 6x9 groundglass... does Arca also supply a focusing hood with a single lens (i.e. non reflex)? Not that I know of but I might be wrong...
For me the bino viewer is so large that I won't carry it in the field. You actually need an extra case only for that monster...
Last edited by thomas; 22nd September 2010 at 12:48.
Here is a bit of an explanation of the HPF ring in more detail. The information has been edited by me to take some of the Swiss out of the English for readability but I think the original content has been maintained.
I hope this explains the idea a little bit more.
“The DoF with a rather too aggressive CoC of 0.0010 mm ( 2 x 5 micron , which is even smaller than the around 5.2 micron of the new Leaf 12) *the calculated DoF is roughly 4 cm wider than the accuracy of our degree table. In fact the DoF of this very, very restrictive calculation would allow one to be off by one to two degrees! If you take the official CoC normally used the for those devices the DoF increases of course....”
BTW… I looked at the Max again and I have to say regarding "precision" I don't like the way the camera works… ironically as precision is what Alpa is so proud of.
The movements are of course geared and allow very fine adjustments. However after adjusting the movements you have to lock the gear thread with a little clip:
When locking it the lens can move down (or up) by some degree (naturally as the clip snaps in the gear thread).
I really prefer friction for geared movements as the lens (or back) stays in exactly the position you've adjusted it.
Next is the adapter for stitching.
It mounts on the lens standard:
In consequence this means that the weight of the entire camera either lays on the gear that drives the lens standard…
... or - if you've locked the gear thread (what you would do mostly, I assume) - the weight lays on the clip:
As the the gear is not centered the camera gets some tension to the side … and in fact you still can move the camera slightly.
To me this is not an ideal solution and I think they should better modify the camera so that you can move the rear standard 4-way…
Last edited by thomas; 22nd September 2010 at 13:54.
I suspect you're looking for problems where problems don't exist. I use the Max with the stitching adapter mounted full time and I can assure you that there's no play in either the front element/thread or any sense of instability or stress due to the shift lock being on one side only. It is a very precise mechanism with quite fine pitched threads too.
Now my outfit looks a bit like an oil rig blowout preventer when you see it stacked up on the tripod but this is absolutely solid.
I also only mount my 12max via the stitching adaptor, and it is very solid and reliable. The ability to shift the back both vertically and horizontally without the lens itself ever moving is great.
I just want to shoot tethered to an iPad....please!!! Somebody??? Anybody???[/QUOTE]
Jeff, the ipad is a toy with a great screen. Its all show and no balls.
You will never get any kind of MF raw processing /preview with it as it is configured, and that is unlikely to change.
You either need a serious processor in a tablet PC (think windows) or use a PowerBook as your real machine and have an iPad or iPhone mirror that.
for me it is a problem that the lens moves further after I have adjusted my composition (and be it just half a millimeter). Why on earth should the lens move and why on earth do I have to guess whether it will move up or down when locking it.
Would be a dealbreaker for me, seriously!
As to the stitching adapter I am sure all Alpa users will say the same. However I consider this as a weak point and I feel much, much better with 4-way shift on the rear standard as you will find it for instance on the WRS or the Rm3D.
There's also tension on the other side of the rise screw since the right side (as you look at it) has a sprung bearing that runs very solidly against the slider rail. This isn't a loose rickety contraption
I'm not trying to sell you an Alpa vs any other solution but we should keep some sense of perspective here.
Last edited by GrahamWelland; 22nd September 2010 at 15:30.
I don't know how the clip is with your camera but certainly on mine it is a multi-tooth mechanism that binds onto several threads, distributing the weight against the remainder of the clip inside the lens mount plate. The clip itself has basically no play in the body either and is a very precisely made slider. Obviously there is some minor play in the mechanism otherwise you couldn't move it but it isn't (at least on my camera) a realistically perceptible amount.
I understand your answer from the technical side .
But for the ease of use , I still wish the distance scale to have the short markers on both sides of the scale . From the shortest distance to infinity .
That would really make much sense in my opinion .
If ALPA will not do it , I will do it myself . I already have an idea for a precise and cheap gadget in mind .
I'm not sure how that gear is engineered so can't say if all the weight is on the clip or not, but however it works it isn't a problem. After 2 years of use the gearing and gear release clip work the same as the day I bought it.
Did you talk to the Alpa people about your theories?
So you looked at a camera at the booth and determined that the design is defective? This, of course, outweighs the experience of people who actually use the camera to take photos? Very useful input.
I wonder, what are the metal parts you criticize made of? How much weight can they sustain? What do you estimate the useful life of the parts to be? Perhaps you should do some testing.
Thank you for your explanation. Your point is well taken.
[Remainder of thought omitted due to forum rules.]
Thomas - did Alpa have the new focus rings at the booth? If so, your impressions.
As I have taped certain indications on my lenses and regularily use a laser disto this is an accessory I consider extremely useful. You won't get the same precision, i.e. fine scaling, as on the Arca Rm3D but compared to the regular focus rings provided by Rodenstock and Schneider this is a really great improvement and they will do very fine for most purposes.
Mounting will be very easy. The rings are cut in the middle ... so you get 2 semicircular parts and simply screw them on the existing focus ring.
Sometimes I work very fast when stitching and I think it might be a problem that the actual camera body is not tight on the tripod.
I think the Max is actually designed for front rise/fall and lateral movements on the rear and while the stitching adapter of course works it's a kind of workaround if you compare it to a camera that provides 4-way shift on the rear.
are you refering to movements of the front standard when the stitching adapter is mounted or to the actual lens movements? As to the actual lens movements I think it's great. For my taste the gear is too fine... which also means it is too slow. I prefer the way the gear works for instance on the arTc, Rm3D or WRS... it's fast but at the same time fine enough for accurate adjustments.Also did you actually find a problem with how the lens "moves" after you "lock" it?
On the Max, if you want to adjust a moderate movement, let's say 5mm or 7mm rise... you can first unlock the front standard for fast movements and then re-engage the gear by "locking" the clip to fine adjust. These are two steps, which is actually slow (for moderate movements! for large movements the "free" movements are of course very fast). Alternatively you can simply adjust the 5mm or 7mm rise by using only the geared movements. In this case the super fine thread of the gear makes things a bit slow. But I think this is just a matter of personal preference (certainly not a matter of precision) and I happen to prefer the Sinar/Arca/Cambo-way.
Last edited by thomas; 23rd September 2010 at 09:54.
Again, with all due respect, you're chasing a problem that doesn't exist when you use the camera. If you hold the camera in your hands (and I would wager that this is true for any camera with mechanical movements) then yes you can shake it and feel some play. That has to be there otherwise you wouldn't be able to move the brass/bronze clip on/off the threads. (think about the cogs in a gearbox - you HAVE to have some play otherwise you couldn't ever turn them although normally this is masked by grease but in the case of the camera it is a dry mechanism). However, when you put it on a tripod nature provides a wonderful thing called gravity ...
I can understand that you might not personally like the gearing ratio for the movements. That's certainly your choice but it isn't accurate to represent that as a problem because for practical purposes it really isn't. However, I can certainly respect your opinion that you prefer the other cameras - heck, it would be a small boring world if we didn't have choice.
Use the camera for a bit rather than playing with one in your hand in the booth and I'm sure you'd understand better what we've been trying to say.
the play I am talking about is here:.. some play. That has to be there otherwise you wouldn't be able to move the brass/bronze clip on/off the threads.
I didn't say that there is any problem (quite the contrary). Only that it is a bit too fine and therefore a bit too slow for me personally.I can understand that you might not personally like the gearing ratio for the movements. That's certainly your choice but it isn't accurate to represent that as a problem
I already knew the Max. It was just the first time I've seen the shift adapter.Use the camera for a bit rather than playing with one in your hand in the booth and I'm sure you'd understand better what we've been trying to say.
We have 2 of these cameras, both 2+ years of use. Neither has this play.
But I understand you don't like the design of the camera in this regard.
For me certain design aspects of the sinar, cambo and arca cameras were untenable. Didn't have to use extensively to know that, so in that sense I can appreciate your position.
Ahh - that's what that is for. I was wondering. It appears this is also on the new STC. Thanks for sharing this.
Jeff Turner's Emerging Light Photography
Something I completelly miss:
No mirror and very smooth shutter on the Alpa = great for reducing vibrations.
But the shutter button is on the left handgrip. Pushing it will create vibrations.
So do we just have to connect a shutter release cable directly on the lens and disconnect the cable connected to the handgrip for tripod minimal vibration use ?
The ALPA , no model , is NOT a reflex camera .
It is a technical camera where you compose either by using a view finder or a ground glass . Also you focus either by "guessing" and use hyper focal method or by ground glass .
The button you are talking about in the left handgrip is not the release button . It is the digital back wake up button .
Some digital backs need a "wake up" . Phase and Hasselblad backs .
You release the leaf shutter either by the release button on the right side of the lens or by cable release .
Indeed, first time with Alpa was at the Photokina.
Thanks for the clarification.
The Alpa guys were very friendly and dedicated, that gives even more appeal to their cameras.
The engineer I was talking with told me btw that for him it is better to mix Phase One backs with Schneider lenses and Leaf backs with Rodenstock lenses. Maybe this is well known, maybe this is just a personal taste but, for a starter like me, it sounds like a good tip.