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New Alpa Products being announced

stephengilbert

Active member
"Ouch! It looks like Alpa is eating their own words on this topic."

Are they? It looks like the ALPA ring is measured in feet or meters.
 

David Klepacki

New member
Well, I guess it can be debated whether the Alpa rings are really any better or worse than the Arca-Swiss R system in the field. The Arca-Swiss R cameras really shine due to the coupling of its lenses to their electronic focusing mechanism. It provides a much faster and more accurate way to not only focus but also provide depth of field and leveling.

Another very useful difference in the field is in the ability to incorporate untethered shift with the Arca-Swiss R cameras. For example, in order to shift untethered with the new Alpa STC (or the older Max), you still have to take the digital back on and off the camera body to frame every shot. With the Arca-Swiss, you can compose with shift using their viewfinder, which allows one to frame and align the digital back without removing it from the body.

Overall, I find the Arca-Swiss R system to have more focusing and framing capability in the field.
 

thomas

New member
Another very useful difference in the field is in the ability to incorporate untethered shift with the Arca-Swiss R cameras. For example, in order to shift untethered with the new Alpa STC (or the older Max), you still have to take the digital back on and off the camera body to frame every shot. With the Arca-Swiss, you can compose with shift using their viewfinder, which allows one to frame and align the digital back without removing it from the body.
Not sure I would agree here. On the Alpa (or Cambo) you can use masks for all the lenses on the finder with indications for shift in millimeters (on all sides, so circular). These indications work surprisingly well (at least on my Cambo). On the Arca the indications are only every 5 millimeters.
 
P

photohagen

Guest
klepacki, glad you love your arca but with all due respect, i agree with thomas. . . .the alpa finder masks work well and btw the phase lcd is useful too for this purpose. i own a max and other alpa cameras. in the field, i never ever had to take the back off from my max to frame any shot for stitching or non-stitching.

rh
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
CMB_,

Maybe this will help.

Here is a chart showing every increment measured on the HPF ring for the Schneider 72mm.

It shows the increments in both meters and feet and even includes measurements for all of the extension tubes.

There will eventually be a chart like this for every lens in the Alpa lineup, but for practical use of course the chart is not needed (in my opinion).

Best regards,
Paul
Thank you Paul

for posting the chart . That is exactly what I meant with "a little table" .

Looking at the distance scale (for example image in #52) I understand that the space between any marker on the precision scale corresponds to one degree of 270 and the space between the longer marks equals to 5 degrees .
If that is true , I ask myself , why do we not have the shorter marks on the other side of the scale ring as well ? ? ?
As the short marks are missing there , you will not be able to focus precisely between two 5 degree markers and the lenses chart wont help you either .

I hope that the ALPA people will see what I mean and explain the HPF ring
in a bit more detail .
 

David Klepacki

New member
klepacki, glad you love your arca but with all due respect, i agree with thomas. . . .the alpa finder masks work well and btw the phase lcd is useful too for this purpose. i own a max and other alpa cameras. in the field, i never ever had to take the back off from my max to frame any shot for stitching or non-stitching.

rh
OK, I agree. I am over-compensating here for the lack of an Arca-Swiss website. My apologies to Alpa users.
 

archivue

Active member
klepacki, glad you love your arca but with all due respect, i agree with thomas. . . .the alpa finder masks work well and btw the phase lcd is useful too for this purpose. i own a max and other alpa cameras. in the field, i never ever had to take the back off from my max to frame any shot for stitching or non-stitching.

rh
I'v test arca finder, linhof finder, cambo finder... and while it is not perfect, i've found the arca one to be the most usable... but i really prefer the bino with the 69 ground glass... i can see the entire scene even when stitching is applied !
 

thomas

New member
I'v test arca finder, linhof finder, cambo finder... and while it is not perfect, i've found the arca one to be the most usable... but i really prefer the bino with the 69 ground glass... i can see the entire scene even when stitching is applied !
the Arca finder is by far the best of the optical finders - little distortion and very bright.
But of course these Alpa finders show even less distortion and there is no finder that is brighter :)

but they show no shift and they are very expensive...

All these cameras have a (round about) 6x9 groundglass... does Arca also supply a focusing hood with a single lens (i.e. non reflex)? Not that I know of but I might be wrong...
For me the bino viewer is so large that I won't carry it in the field. You actually need an extra case only for that monster...
 
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O

Optechs Digital

Guest
Thank you Paul

for posting the chart . That is exactly what I meant with "a little table" .

Looking at the distance scale (for example image in #52) I understand that the space between any marker on the precision scale corresponds to one degree of 270 and the space between the longer marks equals to 5 degrees .
If that is true , I ask myself , why do we not have the shorter marks on the other side of the scale ring as well ? ? ?
As the short marks are missing there , you will not be able to focus precisely between two 5 degree markers and the lenses chart wont help you either .

I hope that the ALPA people will see what I mean and explain the HPF ring
in a bit more detail .
Hi Jurgen,

Here is a bit of an explanation of the HPF ring in more detail. The information has been edited by me to take some of the Swiss out of the English for readability but I think the original content has been maintained.

I hope this explains the idea a little bit more.


“The DoF with a rather too aggressive CoC of 0.0010 mm ( 2 x 5 micron , which is even smaller than the around 5.2 micron of the new Leaf 12) *the calculated DoF is roughly 4 cm wider than the accuracy of our degree table. In fact the DoF of this very, very restrictive calculation would allow one to be off by one to two degrees! If you take the official CoC normally used the for those devices the DoF increases of course....”

Best Regards,
Paul
 

thomas

New member
BTW… I looked at the Max again and I have to say regarding "precision" I don't like the way the camera works… ironically as precision is what Alpa is so proud of.
The movements are of course geared and allow very fine adjustments. However after adjusting the movements you have to lock the gear thread with a little clip:



When locking it the lens can move down (or up) by some degree (naturally as the clip snaps in the gear thread).
I really prefer friction for geared movements as the lens (or back) stays in exactly the position you've adjusted it.

Next is the adapter for stitching.
It mounts on the lens standard:


In consequence this means that the weight of the entire camera either lays on the gear that drives the lens standard…


... or - if you've locked the gear thread (what you would do mostly, I assume) - the weight lays on the clip:


As the the gear is not centered the camera gets some tension to the side … and in fact you still can move the camera slightly.

To me this is not an ideal solution and I think they should better modify the camera so that you can move the rear standard 4-way…
 
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GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Thomas

I suspect you're looking for problems where problems don't exist. I use the Max with the stitching adapter mounted full time and I can assure you that there's no play in either the front element/thread or any sense of instability or stress due to the shift lock being on one side only. It is a very precise mechanism with quite fine pitched threads too.

Now my outfit looks a bit like an oil rig blowout preventer when you see it stacked up on the tripod but this is absolutely solid.



 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
The movements are of course geared and allow very fine adjustments. However after adjusting the movements you have to lock the gear thread with a little clip:
The "clip" you refer to is NOT a lock. It is a quick release that dis-engages from the threaded adjustment mechanism allowing you to make quick coarse adjustments very quickly. Once you re-engage the mechanism, nothing is "locked" ... you then can adjust the shifts as intended ... very finely. The shifts do no move on their own ... no need to "lock" them down.

I also only mount my 12max via the stitching adaptor, and it is very solid and reliable. The ability to shift the back both vertically and horizontally without the lens itself ever moving is great.
 

narikin

New member
Jeff Turner;24601 I just want to shoot tethered to an iPad....please!!! Somebody??? Anybody???:confused:[/QUOTE said:
Jeff, the ipad is a toy with a great screen. Its all show and no balls.
You will never get any kind of MF raw processing /preview with it as it is configured, and that is unlikely to change.
You either need a serious processor in a tablet PC (think windows) or use a PowerBook as your real machine and have an iPad or iPhone mirror that.
 

thomas

New member
Graham,

for me it is a problem that the lens moves further after I have adjusted my composition (and be it just half a millimeter). Why on earth should the lens move and why on earth do I have to guess whether it will move up or down when locking it.
Would be a dealbreaker for me, seriously!
As to the stitching adapter I am sure all Alpa users will say the same. However I consider this as a weak point and I feel much, much better with 4-way shift on the rear standard as you will find it for instance on the WRS or the Rm3D.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Graham,

for me it is a problem that the lens moves further after I have adjusted my composition (and be it just half a millimeter). Why on earth should the lens move and why on earth do I have to guess whether it will move up or down when locking it.
I find that that releasing the tension clip allows me to do a coarse adjustment. When you reseat the clip it sometimes (due to the thread alignment) will move the camera (or you need to turn the thread slightly) as you describe. You simply just turn the adjuster to get the precise alignment. There's no misalignment when you do this - and as Wayne mentioned, it's just for releasing and doing coarse adjustments instead of turning the screw.

There's also tension on the other side of the rise screw since the right side (as you look at it) has a sprung bearing that runs very solidly against the slider rail. This isn't a loose rickety contraption :lecture:

I'm not trying to sell you an Alpa vs any other solution but we should keep some sense of perspective here.
 
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thomas

New member
The "clip" you refer to is NOT a lock. It is a quick release that dis-engages from the threaded adjustment mechanism allowing you to make quick coarse adjustments very quickly. Once you re-engage the mechanism, nothing is "locked" ...
so simply skip my image #3 ... as the weight lays always on the clip.
 
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GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
so simply skip my image #2 ... as the weight lays always on the clip.
Thomas,

I don't know how the clip is with your camera but certainly on mine it is a multi-tooth mechanism that binds onto several threads, distributing the weight against the remainder of the clip inside the lens mount plate. The clip itself has basically no play in the body either and is a very precisely made slider. Obviously there is some minor play in the mechanism otherwise you couldn't move it but it isn't (at least on my camera) a realistically perceptible amount.
 

jotloob

Subscriber Member
Hi Jurgen,

Here is a bit of an explanation of the HPF ring in more detail. The information has been edited by me to take some of the Swiss out of the English for readability but I think the original content has been maintained.
:ROTFL:

I hope this explains the idea a little bit more.


“The DoF with a rather too aggressive CoC of 0.0010 mm ( 2 x 5 micron , which is even smaller than the around 5.2 micron of the new Leaf 12) *the calculated DoF is roughly 4 cm wider than the accuracy of our degree table. In fact the DoF of this very, very restrictive calculation would allow one to be off by one to two degrees! If you take the official CoC normally used the for those devices the DoF increases of course....”
Best Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul

I understand your answer from the technical side .:thumbup:
But for the ease of use , I still wish the distance scale to have the short markers on both sides of the scale . From the shortest distance to infinity .
That would really make much sense in my opinion .
If ALPA will not do it , I will do it myself . I already have an idea for a precise and cheap gadget in mind .
 

thomas

New member
for the ease of use , I still wish the distance scale to have the short markers on both sides of the scale . From the shortest distance to infinity
I think you should see the real focus rings first. With short markers it gets completely confusing as it's much harder to check to which number the respective marker refers to. I am sure Alpa's current design will work very fine - if you look at the scale from above you can easily adjust the lens for the short markers.
 

asf

Member
so simply skip my image #3 ... as the weight lays always on the clip.
Thomas, I'm not sure what you are saying here - you own a Max that has this problem? Or have you just seen them and extrapolated this problem? I've had one for more than 2 years, always use with the stitching adapter and never seen any lens movement as you describe. I've not heard any reports of anyone else having this problem either. As Wayne Fox states that is not a lock - if you've been using it as one I can see how you'd get lens movement, but that's now a problem with the camera.

I'm not sure how that gear is engineered so can't say if all the weight is on the clip or not, but however it works it isn't a problem. After 2 years of use the gearing and gear release clip work the same as the day I bought it.

Did you talk to the Alpa people about your theories?
 
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