New Alpa Products being announced

[jotloob]

I think you should see the real focus rings first. YES , THAT IS TRUE . With short markers it gets completely confusing as it's much harder to check to which number the respective marker refers to .

No Thomas . It would not get confusing and not any harder to check .
The contrary is true , it would get much easier .
These short markers need only to be one millimeter in length .
And no fights about little white markers . Please .:ROTFL:

 

[thomas]

Did you talk to the Alpa people about your theories?

I've discovered the way the shift adapter works at the Alpa booth at Photokina together with one of the Alpa guys. The Alpa guy confirmed that the weight of the entire camera only lays on the gear of the front standard! Naturally he also said it won't be a problem... but I have a different take on this. Although the camera lays quite stable on the gear (actually on the bold screw head of the gear at the bottom) due to its weight (and that of the lens and the digital back) you can lift the camera. In other words: it's not really fixed.

 

[stephengilbert]

Thomas,

So you looked at a camera at the booth and determined that the design is defective? This, of course, outweighs the experience of people who actually use the camera to take photos? Very useful input.

I wonder, what are the metal parts you criticize made of? How much weight can they sustain? What do you estimate the useful life of the parts to be? Perhaps you should do some testing.

Steve

 

[thomas]

So you looked at a camera at the booth and determined that the design is defective? This, of course, outweighs the experience of people who actually use the camera to take photos? Very useful input.

bla bla bla...

 

[stephengilbert]

Thank you for your explanation. Your point is well taken.

[Remainder of thought omitted due to forum rules.]

 

[cmb_]

Thomas - did Alpa have the new focus rings at the booth? If so, your impressions.

 

[thomas]

Thomas - did Alpa have the new focus rings at the booth? If so, your impressions.

yes, they showed prototypes. They told me the final design will be a bit different - all the 3 parts of the actual focus ring will be made out of metal and the indications will be lasered. They hope to get them ready to be shipped within this year.
As I have taped certain indications on my lenses and regularily use a laser disto this is an accessory I consider extremely useful. You won't get the same precision, i.e. fine scaling, as on the Arca Rm3D but compared to the regular focus rings provided by Rodenstock and Schneider this is a really great improvement and they will do very fine for most purposes.
Mounting will be very easy. The rings are cut in the middle ... so you get 2 semicircular parts and simply screw them on the existing focus ring.

 

[asf]

So you mean if you put enough pressure on it it will move? Same happens with any non-locking geared movement. Or do I misunderstand you?

Also did you actually find a problem with how the lens "moves" after you "lock" it?

I've discovered the way the shift adapter works at the Alpa booth at Photokina together with one of the Alpa guys. The Alpa guy confirmed that the weight of the entire camera only lays on the gear of the front standard! Naturally he also said it won't be a problem... but I have a different take on this. Although the camera lays quite stable on the gear (actually on the bold screw head of the gear at the bottom) due to its weight (and that of the lens and the digital back) you can lift the camera. In other words: it's not really fixed.

 

[thomas]

So you mean if you put enough pressure on it it will move?

no, actually it's the other way around: the more weight the more stable the camera is. I don' think this will be a problem mostly. But it simply doesn't feel "right" that you have a $$$$ camera and a $$$$ tripod and a $$ camera plate but you still can lift and shake the camera.
Sometimes I work very fast when stitching and I think it might be a problem that the actual camera body is not tight on the tripod.
I think the Max is actually designed for front rise/fall and lateral movements on the rear and while the stitching adapter of course works it's a kind of workaround if you compare it to a camera that provides 4-way shift on the rear.

Also did you actually find a problem with how the lens "moves" after you "lock" it?

are you refering to movements of the front standard when the stitching adapter is mounted or to the actual lens movements? As to the actual lens movements I think it's great. For my taste the gear is too fine... which also means it is too slow. I prefer the way the gear works for instance on the arTc, Rm3D or WRS... it's fast but at the same time fine enough for accurate adjustments.
On the Max, if you want to adjust a moderate movement, let's say 5mm or 7mm rise... you can first unlock the front standard for fast movements and then re-engage the gear by "locking" the clip to fine adjust. These are two steps, which is actually slow (for moderate movements! for large movements the "free" movements are of course very fast). Alternatively you can simply adjust the 5mm or 7mm rise by using only the geared movements. In this case the super fine thread of the gear makes things a bit slow. But I think this is just a matter of personal preference (certainly not a matter of precision) and I happen to prefer the Sinar/Arca/Cambo-way.

 

[cmb_]

The rings are cut in the middle ... so you get 2 semicircular parts and simply screw them on the existing focus ring.

Thanks Thomas, I thought that is how they would attach from examining the photos closely.

 

[GrahamWelland]

no, actually it's the other way around: the more weight the more stable the camera is. I don' think this will be a problem mostly. But it simply doesn't feel "right" that you have a $$$$ camera and a $$$$ tripod and a $$ camera plate but you still can lift and shake the camera.
Sometimes I work very fast when stitching and I think it might be a problem that the actual camera body is not tight on the tripod.
I think the Max is actually designed for front rise/fall and lateral movements on the rear and while the stitching adapter of course works it's a kind of workaround if you compare it to a camera that provides 4-way shift on the rear.

are you refering to movements of the front standard when the stitching adapter is mounted or to the actual lens movements? As to the actual lens movements I think it's great. For my taste the gear is too fine... which also means it is too slow. I prefer the way the gear works for instance on the arTc, Rm3D or WRS... it's fast but at the same time fine enough for accurate adjustments.
On the Max, if you want to adjust a moderate movement, let's say 5mm or 7mm rise... you can first unlock the front standard for fast movements and then re-engage the gear by "locking" the clip to fine adjust. These are two steps, which is actually slow (for moderate movements! for large movements the "free" movements are of course very fast). Alternatively you can simply adjust the 5mm or 7mm rise by using only the geared movements. In this case the super fine thread of the gear makes things a bit slow. But I think this is just a matter of personal preference (certainly not a matter of precision) and I happen to prefer the Sinar/Arca/Cambo-way.

Thomas,

Again, with all due respect, you're chasing a problem that doesn't exist when you use the camera. If you hold the camera in your hands (and I would wager that this is true for any camera with mechanical movements) then yes you can shake it and feel some play. That has to be there otherwise you wouldn't be able to move the brass/bronze clip on/off the threads. (think about the cogs in a gearbox - you HAVE to have some play otherwise you couldn't ever turn them although normally this is masked by grease but in the case of the camera it is a dry mechanism). However, when you put it on a tripod nature provides a wonderful thing called gravity ...

I can understand that you might not personally like the gearing ratio for the movements. That's certainly your choice but it isn't accurate to represent that as a problem because for practical purposes it really isn't. However, I can certainly respect your opinion that you prefer the other cameras - heck, it would be a small boring world if we didn't have choice.

Use the camera for a bit rather than playing with one in your hand in the booth and I'm sure you'd understand better what we've been trying to say.

 

[thomas]

I would wager that this is true for any camera with mechanical movements

no. zero play on the other cameras.

.. some play. That has to be there otherwise you wouldn't be able to move the brass/bronze clip on/off the threads.

the play I am talking about is here:

I can understand that you might not personally like the gearing ratio for the movements. That's certainly your choice but it isn't accurate to represent that as a problem

I didn't say that there is any problem (quite the contrary). Only that it is a bit too fine and therefore a bit too slow for me personally.

Use the camera for a bit rather than playing with one in your hand in the booth and I'm sure you'd understand better what we've been trying to say.

I already knew the Max. It was just the first time I've seen the shift adapter.

 

[asf]

We have 2 of these cameras, both 2+ years of use. Neither has this play.
But I understand you don't like the design of the camera in this regard.

For me certain design aspects of the sinar, cambo and arca cameras were untenable. Didn't have to use extensively to know that, so in that sense I can appreciate your position.

no. zero play on the other cameras.

the play I am talking about is here:

I already knew the Max. It was just the first time I've seen the shift adapter.

 

[cmb_]

For my taste the gear is too fine... which also means it is too slow.

I have the 12 SWA and the gear for rise is very fine and I guess as a result slow. However, what I really like about it is that a 360 degree rotation (one full turn) is equal to exactly 1 mm rise. I can turn it very quickly because of the cleverly designed brass wheel inset into the knob (see the attached image) and count the number of turns. 10 turns = 10 mm rise. It is very nice.

 

[PeterL]

Ahh - that's what that is for. I was wondering. It appears this is also on the new STC. Thanks for sharing this.

Cheers, -Peter

 

[Jeff Turner]

Jeff, the ipad is a toy with a great screen. Its all show and no balls.
You will never get any kind of MF raw processing /preview with it as it is configured, and that is unlikely to change.
You either need a serious processor in a tablet PC (think windows) or use a PowerBook as your real machine and have an iPad or iPhone mirror that.

I agree with you and am aware that the Apple A4 processor in the iPad is not powerful enough to process large RAW images. However, Leaf enabled the 75S, which I own, to push a jpeg preview via bluetooth to an HP iPaq. Unfortunately, the resolution of the iPaq is only somewhat better than the 75S. The iPad has bluetooth and can display jpegs. Certainly a solution can be developed to push this same jpeg preview via a 4 pin firewire to a 30 pin iPad connection.

 

[thomas]

I have the 12 SWA and the gear for rise is very fine and I guess as a result slow. However, what I really like about it is that a 360 degree rotation (one full turn) is equal to exactly 1 mm rise. I can turn it very quickly because of the cleverly designed brass wheel inset into the knob (see the attached image) and count the number of turns. 10 turns = 10 mm rise. It is very nice.

yes, that's very smart. It's also on the new STC. Actually all theses little compact cameras of Alpa are brilliant.

 

[anGy]

Something I completelly miss:
No mirror and very smooth shutter on the Alpa = great for reducing vibrations.
But the shutter button is on the left handgrip. Pushing it will create vibrations.
So do we just have to connect a shutter release cable directly on the lens and disconnect the cable connected to the handgrip for tripod minimal vibration use ?

 

[jotloob]

Something I completelly miss:
No mirror and very smooth shutter on the Alpa = great for reducing vibrations.
But the shutter button is on the left handgrip. Pushing it will create vibrations.
So do we just have to connect a shutter release cable directly on the lens and disconnect the cable connected to the handgrip for tripod minimal vibration use ?

It looks to me , that you never really had an ALPA in your hands and that you know nothing about that camera .
The ALPA , no model , is NOT a reflex camera .
It is a technical camera where you compose either by using a view finder or a ground glass . Also you focus either by "guessing" and use hyper focal method or by ground glass .
The button you are talking about in the left handgrip is not the release button . It is the digital back wake up button .
Some digital backs need a "wake up" . Phase and Hasselblad backs .
You release the leaf shutter either by the release button on the right side of the lens or by cable release .

 

[anGy]

Indeed, first time with Alpa was at the Photokina.
Thanks for the clarification.

The Alpa guys were very friendly and dedicated, that gives even more appeal to their cameras.
The engineer I was talking with told me btw that for him it is better to mix Phase One backs with Schneider lenses and Leaf backs with Rodenstock lenses. Maybe this is well known, maybe this is just a personal taste but, for a starter like me, it sounds like a good tip.