Hasselblad - Phocus and firmware ideas

[Woody Campbell]

I thought that I might start a thread for ideas for changes in Phocus and for firmware upgrades for the current H3D:

1. FlexColor includes an option when you are shooting tethered that permits you to designate an exposure as a white reference and to correct exposures accordingly (for vignetting and color shifts as well as white balance). This is essential when shooting non-HC wides to eliminate color shifts. The problems: it only works tethered in FlexColor and doesn't exist in Phocus. This feature needs to be added to Phocus. It also needs to be available for non-tethered shooting. (Note that Capture One offers this feature for C1 backs.) Not having this feature severely limits the usefulness of Hasselblad backs on third-party bodies such as Alpa and Horseman, particularly with wide angle lenses. I need help on this one since I've got a Horseman and a 35mm Digitar on order. I'll be shooting with an Imagebank rather than tethered.

2. Firmware idea: the H3D's exposure bracketing is limited to exposure increments of one stop or less. Extended dynamic range applications (such as Photomatix Pro) require brackets at two stop intervals. It should be fairly simply to modify the firmware to permit larger increments.

3. Another firmware idea: permit focus bracketing. The Hy6 evidently does this. It would be very useful in a number of situations - in my case I use Helicon Focus fairly frequently.

4. Yet another firmware idea: Broaden the choice for user-programable buttons to include basically any setting on the camera or the back. For example it would be nice in the field to be able to quickly cycle through lcd brightness settings or when working handheld to cycle through mirror delay settings.

5. Finally, again on Phocus - I hope as the authors get close to the final version they spend some time optimizing it for speed. It's actually not bad for imports and exports, but in working with a large group of these very large files milliseconds count. On screen responsiveness is quite slow on my 2x4 core 3 ghz Mac - I'm aware of the video card issue and have ordered an upgrade - but it seems to me that responsiveness ought to be better on the hardware that I have.

Please add any thoughts that any of you may have. Let's hope that someone is watching

 

[Steve Hendrix]

I thought that I might start a thread for ideas for changes in Phocus and for firmware upgrades for the current H3D:

1. FlexColor includes an option when you are shooting tethered that permits you to designate an exposure as a white reference and to correct exposures accordingly (for vignetting and color shifts as well as white balance). This is essential when shooting non-HC wides to eliminate color shifts. The problems: it only works tethered in FlexColor and doesn't exist in Phocus. This feature needs to be added to Phocus. It also needs to be available for non-tethered shooting. (Note that Capture One offers this feature for C1 backs.) Not having this feature severely limits the usefulness of Hasselblad backs on third-party bodies such as Alpa and Horseman, particularly with wide angle lenses. I need help on this one since I've got a Horseman and a 35mm Digitar on order. I'll be shooting with an Imagebank rather than tethered.



5. Finally, again on Phocus - I hope as the authors get close to the final version they spend some time optimizing it for speed. It's actually not bad for imports and exports, but in working with a large group of these very large files milliseconds count. On screen responsiveness is quite slow on my 2x4 core 3 ghz Mac - I'm aware of the video card issue and have ordered an upgrade - but it seems to me that responsiveness ought to be better on the hardware that I have.

Please add any thoughts that any of you may have. Let's hope that someone is watching

Woody:

Hasselblad will certainly include the Custom White Balance for correction of movement camera anomalies in the final release of Phocus, or very soon after. I expect it to allow for un-tethered application of this workflow, just as Flexcolor does.

The difference in response based on the video card itself is significant. Like others, I also hope that the wording regarding "performance optimization" not being complete in the betas does in fact bode well for the final official release of V1.0.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[fotografz]

1) Maybe I don't understand the question. Isn't that what the presets are under the capture tab? I think you have to put a check mark in the selection box by the header. Then you can select the modify selected files tab.

When I've shot tethered in Phocus, I've WBed the first shot and all subsequent shots are the same.

4) I haven't explored this yet, but can't you do that with the user button?

5) Phocus rocks on my machine ... adjustments are virtually real time. Mac Pro 2X3 Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 10 gigs of RAM, Radeon X1600

 

[jlm]

will Phocus allow camera profiles? i am finding this would be useful for the CFV files

 

[Woody Campbell]

1) Maybe I don't understand the question. Isn't that what the presets are under the capture tab? I think you have to put a check mark in the selection box by the header. Then you can select the modify selected files tab.

When I've shot tethered in Phocus, I've WBed the first shot and all subsequent shots are the same.

4) I haven't explored this yet, but can't you do that with the user button?

5) Phocus rocks on my machine ... adjustments are virtually real time. Mac Pro 2X3 Ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 10 gigs of RAM, Radeon X1600

For the record my purpose in starting this thread was not to knock Hasselblad or Phocus but to come up with a constructive list of improvements that might of interest to people who are shooting with this gear. Overall I'm amazed at the images that the H3D-39 plus Phocus/FlexColor deliver - the color is like nothing I've ever seen before - the impact is similar to the first time you see an 8x10 chrome on a lightbox.

On 1 above the problem I'm trying to solve in not overall white balance but the blue green cast in the corners that you get when you shoot through a non-retrofocus design wide angle glass, particularly if you use shifts. The images at the beginning of this thread illustrate the problem. Guy's first shots with Horseman Of course you can't fix this with a white balance correction because the color cast is variable across the frame.

Steve Hendrix provided a helpful work around in an offline conversation: when you need to make this type of correction tether the camera so the exposure palette in FlexColor is active - you can apply the corrections to any file, whether or not a tethered capture - the back becomes a large dongle for these purposes. Thanks, Steve.

On 4, when you get around to exploring the issue you'll find that indeed there is a very useful set of functions that you can map to the four programable buttons (I've programed AE-L, for example, to take a WB exposure) but it doesn't include functions like the ones I mentioned.

An aside on Hasselblad's outstanding approach on customer service: Go to the Hasselblad website and download the supplemental documentation on the H3DII. Substantially all of the H3DII improvements have actually been implemented on the H3D as firmware updates. Again the purpose here is to suggest other ideas that they might want to adopt.

 

[fotografz]

For the record my purpose in starting this thread was not to knock Hasselblad or Phocus but to come up with a constructive list of improvements that might of interest to people who are shooting with this gear. Overall I'm amazed at the images that the H3D-39 plus Phocus/FlexColor deliver - the color is like nothing I've ever seen before - the impact is similar to the first time you see an 8x10 chrome on a lightbox.

On 1 above the problem I'm trying to solve in not overall white balance but the blue green cast in the corners that you get when you shoot through a non-retrofocus design wide angle glass, particularly if you use shifts. The images at the beginning of this thread illustrate the problem. Guy's first shots with Horseman Of course you can't fix this with a white balance correction because the color cast is variable across the frame.

Steve Hendrix provided a helpful work around in an offline conversation: when you need to make this type of correction tether the camera so the exposure palette in FlexColor is active - you can apply the corrections to any file, whether or not a tethered capture - the back becomes a large dongle for these purposes. Thanks, Steve.

On 4, when you get around to exploring the issue you'll find that indeed there is a very useful set of functions that you can map to the four programable buttons (I've programed AE-L, for example, to take a WB exposure) but it doesn't include functions like the ones I mentioned.

An aside on Hasselblad's outstanding approach on customer service: Go to the Hasselblad website and download the supplemental documentation on the H3DII. Substantially all of the H3DII improvements have actually been implemented on the H3D as firmware updates. Again the purpose here is to suggest other ideas that they might want to adopt.

Didn't take it as a knock on Hasselblad. I agree, the files are mind blowing ... and can do nothing but get better.

I've already downloaded the H3D-II suppliment, but not had time to delve into it in detail. I like the idea of programing the WB into an AE lock. Gotta try that one. Lots of stuff to remember ... like the mirror delay feature and such ... need to make a cheat sheet ... ;

I sent my "monster file maker" off to Sweden to replace a scratched front filter, ... so I'll have to wait awhile to goof around with it. Beside, I couldn't even if it were here, I have 800 wedding files to process by Monday

 

[PeterA]

1.I dont have any issues with colour shift and a H3D11-39 with an Alpa a 24 and 35..what colour shift issue are you referring to?
2. The HDR issue is an easy workaround I woudl think -take 2 or 3 or 4 or how ever many bracketed shots you heart desires starting from a a different aperture for each sequence - manually
3. Focus bracketing is best done yourself manually..and if you are going to do macro shots liek this - any 35mm DSLR is aprobably easier to do it with..
4. Phocus runs faster than any other raw processor I use on my mac - the changes are as instantaneous a any other raw processor or CS3 for that matter..

Phocus is still in beta..I am sure I will think of some stuff down the track..but for now..I am kinda stuck for a wish list- this software blows any other MFD software away.

I thought that I might start a thread for ideas for changes in Phocus and for firmware upgrades for the current H3D:

1. FlexColor includes an option when you are shooting tethered that permits you to designate an exposure as a white reference and to correct exposures accordingly (for vignetting and color shifts as well as white balance). This is essential when shooting non-HC wides to eliminate color shifts. The problems: it only works tethered in FlexColor and doesn't exist in Phocus. This feature needs to be added to Phocus. It also needs to be available for non-tethered shooting. (Note that Capture One offers this feature for C1 backs.) Not having this feature severely limits the usefulness of Hasselblad backs on third-party bodies such as Alpa and Horseman, particularly with wide angle lenses. I need help on this one since I've got a Horseman and a 35mm Digitar on order. I'll be shooting with an Imagebank rather than tethered.

2. Firmware idea: the H3D's exposure bracketing is limited to exposure increments of one stop or less. Extended dynamic range applications (such as Photomatix Pro) require brackets at two stop intervals. It should be fairly simply to modify the firmware to permit larger increments.

3. Another firmware idea: permit focus bracketing. The Hy6 evidently does this. It would be very useful in a number of situations - in my case I use Helicon Focus fairly frequently.

4. Yet another firmware idea: Broaden the choice for user-programable buttons to include basically any setting on the camera or the back. For example it would be nice in the field to be able to quickly cycle through lcd brightness settings or when working handheld to cycle through mirror delay settings.

5. Finally, again on Phocus - I hope as the authors get close to the final version they spend some time optimizing it for speed. It's actually not bad for imports and exports, but in working with a large group of these very large files milliseconds count. On screen responsiveness is quite slow on my 2x4 core 3 ghz Mac - I'm aware of the video card issue and have ordered an upgrade - but it seems to me that responsiveness ought to be better on the hardware that I have.

Please add any thoughts that any of you may have. Let's hope that someone is watching

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve Hendrix provided a helpful work around in an offline conversation: when you need to make this type of correction tether the camera so the exposure palette in FlexColor is active - you can apply the corrections to any file, whether or not a tethered capture - the back becomes a large dongle for these purposes. Thanks, Steve.

Woody:

Yes - that is correct, although to be clear, the camera does not have to be tethered when making the corrective capture. So out in the field, shooting with movement cameras does not require the Hasselblad product to be tethered for correcting the color casts and other anomalies that can occur. Only when selecting that file as the corrective file to be applied to images in the software does the back/camera need to be connected.

Thanks,
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[harmsr]

Just starting to play with Phocus today, but a few things jumped out at me that are lacking which Capture One has.

highlight recovery
shadow recovery
rotation to a selected angle or line for horizon corrections

These are three things that I REALLY miss.

Other things which seam weird is that I have to hold down a key to get the hand so that I can move around in a zoomed view. I would really like to have a hand key right next to the arrow key selector.

I also don't like have to click on the up or down arrows at the bottom of the adjustment window to scroll up or down. My preference would be to use the scroll wheel on my mouse, like in other programs.

I'm also confused on importing. Do I have to import into this Scratchpad folder to work on any image? Is it not possible to work on an image in a saved folder which I have copied onto my desktop from the CF card?

Maybe it is just me as the software is brand new to me today, but at the moment I would say that Capture One 4 is much easier to use.

Any suggestions or help is appreciated.

Best,

Ray

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Just starting to play with Phocus today, but a few things jumped out at me that are lacking which Capture One has.

highlight recovery
shadow recovery
rotation to a selected angle or line for horizon corrections

These are three things that I REALLY miss.

Other things which seam weird is that I have to hold down a key to get the hand so that I can move around in a zoomed view. I would really like to have a hand key right next to the arrow key selector.

I also don't like have to click on the up or down arrows at the bottom of the adjustment window to scroll up or down. My preference would be to use the scroll wheel on my mouse, like in other programs.

I'm also confused on importing. Do I have to import into this Scratchpad folder to work on any image? Is it not possible to work on an image in a saved folder which I have copied onto my desktop from the CF card?

Maybe it is just me as the software is brand new to me today, but at the moment I would say that Capture One 4 is much easier to use.

Any suggestions or help is appreciated.

Best,

Ray

Ray:

Being able to move the image around in zoomed view via a hand tool has definitely been recommended to the Phocus team.

When importing, you can import to any folder you like by creating the folder (navigate to where you want it in the browser, then control click to create the new folder). By control clicking on the newly created folder, you can also set it as the capture destination folder, which would also set that as the folder for imported files. You will see that it shows up in the upper left menu. Basically whatever the current capture destination folder is, is where the imported files will go. If you want them to go somewhere else, just select a different folder in that menu or create a new folder (as described above) before importing. Once you get the gist of it, you see that it is quite simpe and easy.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

 

[PeterA]

I have avoided using the new Capture because it apparently throws files willy nilly all over and through the system - what is all that about anyway?

 

[fotografz]

Just starting to play with Phocus today, but a few things jumped out at me that are lacking which Capture One has.

highlight recovery
shadow recovery
rotation to a selected angle or line for horizon corrections

These are three things that I REALLY miss.

Other things which seam weird is that I have to hold down a key to get the hand so that I can move around in a zoomed view. I would really like to have a hand key right next to the arrow key selector.

I also don't like have to click on the up or down arrows at the bottom of the adjustment window to scroll up or down. My preference would be to use the scroll wheel on my mouse, like in other programs.

I'm also confused on importing. Do I have to import into this Scratchpad folder to work on any image? Is it not possible to work on an image in a saved folder which I have copied onto my desktop from the CF card?

Maybe it is just me as the software is brand new to me today, but at the moment I would say that Capture One 4 is much easier to use.

Any suggestions or help is appreciated.

Best,

Ray

Ray, Highlight and shadow recovery is a no brainer with Phocus. Next to the Curves is an eyedropper which you can use to select the exact value you want to adjust ... click a highlight or a shadow area and adjust it. Same for the new color wheel adjustment and it's eyedropper selector.

I DO wish they would include a Horizon adjustment. Most of the time I can get a shot to the point that PS isn't needed, except for that.

 

[harmsr]

Steve & Marc,

Thanks for the hints. Please keep them coming.

Another question, what is the difference between the .fff and .3fr files? What comes out of the camera is the .3fr file. Aperture reads the .3fr file fine. Phocus imports the .3fr file into a new folder with the .fff extension. If I click on the .3fr file in Phocus nothing happens. I have to edit the .fff file.

Another thing which seems weird to me. I save the .3fr files from the CF card into a new folder called "HotAirBalloons". Then I open up Phocus select that folder as the destination folder, select all the files, and then click import. The .fff files to work on do not show up until, I click on another folder then return to the "HotAirBalloon" folder. Why, or am I just doing something really weird in this workflow? I'm not used to a .3fr and .fff file structure.

Sorry, for all the dumb questions. I'm just trying to get my hands around this thing.

Peter - Capture One does leave a preview and adjustment subfolder in every folder that you open. It really is pretty small and actually useful once you get used to it. You can keep it for all your adjustments or eliminate them all completely in swoop. One of the advantages of Capture One to Phocus or Aperture is no importing. You can start working on the files right away.

Best,

Ray

 

[fotografz]

Steve & Marc,

Thanks for the hints. Please keep them coming.

Another question, what is the difference between the .fff and .3fr files? What comes out of the camera is the .3fr file. Aperture reads the .3fr file fine. Phocus imports the .3fr file into a new folder with the .fff extension. If I click on the .3fr file in Phocus nothing happens. I have to edit the .fff file.

Another thing which seems weird to me. I save the .3fr files from the CF card into a new folder called "HotAirBalloons". Then I open up Phocus select that folder as the destination folder, select all the files, and then click import. The .fff files to work on do not show up until, I click on another folder then return to the "HotAirBalloon" folder. Why, or am I just doing something really weird in this workflow? I'm not used to a .3fr and .fff file structure.

Peter - Capture One does leave a preview and adjustment subfolder in every folder that you open. It really is pretty small and actually useful once you get used to it. You can keep it for all your adjustments or eliminate them all completely in swoop. One of the advantages of Capture One to Phocus or Aperture is no importing. You can start working on the files right away.

Best,

Ray

Not sure I see the "advantage" of C1 in terms of "importing" unless you are "working right away" on files right off the CF card ... which is not a good idea, and is very slow... being that the card and reader are the bottle neck. I NEVER work files off CFs anyway because I use them as a redundant back-up once downloaded.

If you copy a CF card to a desktop folder, then open them in C1 ... it's the same as importing that CF card into Phocus (which is same concept as Lightroom.) In other words, a CF card has to be "imported" one way or another... or should be.

My Phocus work flow is as follows:

I have a file folder on my desktop titled "Scratch Pad" where my working files are.

I open a CF card in Phocus, use the quick preview window to edit out the obvious junk (just like with Lightroom.)

Send the selects to the destination folder ... it's always the Scratch Pad as default ... and hit import.

The files in Scratch Pad are my working files, and I export corrected Tiffs from there.

If Adobe and Hasselblad ever get it together, those files could be exported as DNGs with all Phocus corrections intact, including DAC.

While I don't exactly know all the tech reasons for 3Fs and fffs, I suspect it's some lossless compression RAW file that's uncompressed to work on. So in the camera it's a 3F, and once imported it's a fff. Maybe a more technically minded person could elaborate?

 

[Woody Campbell]

Ray - In C1 my workflow is to use C1 to set up a new folder using its default naming conventions. I then copy the raw files to the Captures subfolder that C1 has created.

When you open the new capture folder in C1 the software grinds through the images - in the background C1 is creating thumbnails and a large sidecar file for each image - the process roughly doubles the storage requirements of the original images.

I think of the import step in Phocus as being analogous from a workflow standpoint to what C1 does in the background. My sense is that Phocus is as fast or faster at this step as C1 but I don't have directly comparable files (the 1dsII files I convert with C1 are way smaller than the H3d-39 files I convert with Phocus so the timings aren't comparable). The Hasselblad approach has two advantages: all intermediate files end up in the same place which facilitates deleting them when finished. Also, I have a dedicated fast internal drive that I use as a Photoshop scratch disk - I put the Phocus scratch folder on this drive so Phocus isn't reading and writing off of the same drive, which speeds things up.

 

[fotografz]

Ray - In C1 my workflow is to use C1 to set up a new folder using its default naming conventions. I then copy the raw files to the Captures subfolder that C1 has created.

When you open the new capture folder in C1 the software grinds through the images - in the background C1 is creating thumbnails and a large sidecar file for each image - the process roughly doubles the storage requirements of the original images.

I think of the import step in Phocus as being analogous from a workflow standpoint to what C1 does in the background. My sense is that Phocus is as fast or faster at this step as C1 but I don't have directly comparable files (the 1dsII files I convert with C1 are way smaller than the H3d-39 files I convert with Phocus so the timings aren't comparable). The Hasselblad approach has two advantages: all intermediate files end up in the same place which facilitates deleting them when finished. Also, I have a dedicated fast internal drive that I use as a Photoshop scratch disk - I put the Phocus scratch folder on this drive so Phocus isn't reading and writing off of the same drive, which speeds things up.

Good tip on placing the Scratch Pad on an second internal drive Woody. I'll give it a try. Thanks :salute:

 

[Woody Campbell]

Here's another firmware/software request/question for Hasselblad:

When I mount my one non-HC lens (a 40mm Distagon IF) a menu comes up on the camera asking me to identify the lens off of a menu (which includes the 40mm IF).

Hasselblad apparently doesn't make use of this information at present. The "lens" field in the EXIF data comes up blank. The lens selection doesn't affect how Phocus processes the file.

It would be great if the lens selection were captured in the EXIF data and if Phocus applied a correction to eliminate this lens's very slight CA and fairly significant linear distortion.

 

[harmsr]

Woody - I guess you are right that Capture One really does do an "import" step on its own. However, I never have to hit an import key and go through a dialog box about it. Just one step eliminated that I like.

Marc - I agree and never work off of the CF or even the original files. The first thing that I do is create a folder of the originals on my external storage drive and my computer. I then will start to work on the files which are on the computer. I guess with this workflow, I will keep the .3FR files on the external and then the imported .FFF files in the "ScratchPad" on the desktop. Once the exported .Tiffs are done and modified in Photoshop, along with any created .JPGs, I guess that I would save those to subfolders on the external storage drive with the original .3FR files.


Thanks,

Ray

 

[harmsr]

For those of you with contacts to Hassy on the Phocus software, requesting modifications.

Another dumb question, is how do you save the RAW file adjustments that you have worked on so that you can create a different version later. (As in the .XMP side cars with LightRoom, Aperture Library storage, or the separate folder of information which Capture One leaves in the working folder) The only thing that I find is to hit "save adjustments" on each and every file, which is a major pain in the A$$. That is like Capture NX for Nikon which is one of the reasons that I did not like the software. The Aperture or Capture One approach of saving all of this automatically is much preferred.

I am really trying to make the entire workflow including software part of my decision and learn what Phocus can do quickly. I am rather familiar with Capture One and Aperture, but completely new to Phocus.

Thanks,

Ray

 

[fotografz]

Woody - I guess you are right that Capture One really does do an "import" step on its own. However, I never have to hit an import key and go through a dialog box about it. Just one step eliminated that I like.

Marc - I agree and never work off of the CF or even the original files. The first thing that I do is create a folder of the originals on my external storage drive and my computer. I then will start to work on the files which are on the computer. I guess with this workflow, I will keep the .3FR files on the external and then the imported .FFF files in the "ScratchPad" on the desktop. Once the exported .Tiffs are done and modified in Photoshop, along with any created .JPGs, I guess that I would save those to subfolders on the external storage drive with the original .3FR files.


Thanks,

Ray

The Import function in Phocus is there for a reason Ray. It allows you to edit the small previews which show up almost instantly without importing every shot in RAW. That "extra" step takes 10 seconds click through to the edit/select stage. I sure wouldn't want to import every wedding shot I took and then have to wade through them all at full size. Same thing for Lightroom.