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P25 Plus noise test/ Very Boring sorry

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
To me it looks better with lowering the luminance setting. It seems to have more detail in the image that the higher setting was losing
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I wish I could!

LOL

Thierry
Well we all seen the High ISO stuff of the Sinar and they looked good as well. I just think this is great for us end users that have a bail out when we really need to push the issue. To me ISO 400 on any of these backs if there good than we are golden
 
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thsinar

Guest
that's normal, has to be so: that's why "luminance" NR is so dangerous. Sometimes it is better to reduce it or do not have any at all to keep the details.

The luminance channel is so important for the sharpness of the file.

Thierry

To me it looks better with lowering the luminance setting. It seems to have more detail in the image that the higher setting was losing
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Thierry i am thinking there is some noise reduction going on just bringing it into C1 . I am at C1 defaults and have not added anything to that. Yes the 800 ISO i am seeing some detail loss , not a ton but it is there over 400 and slower.
I have seen this with other Phase samples too. It seems that there is a default NR stage which you can't avoid. Not such a bad thing - these files are all usable - but it means that you can't compare Phase raw v other raw because the playing field is not level. All you can do is compare final results, and even then individual skill and preferences will come into play.

I can't see a way around it.
 

EH21

Member
Guy,
Are you using C1 4.1? I found that the defaults are kind of excessively agressive with luminous noise control and that I could move the luminance noise all the way down to nothing or like 8-10 and then just move the color noise adjuster up until the color noise went away - result was a much better file.

Take a look, not at the vent hood, but at the granite and see how your iso 800 rendering bites in that area. I'm guessing you'll get that detail back with the luminous noise set down to almost zero and be even happier with your p25+ files.

Also there is a recent thread on Luminous-landscape on noise with the p25 that is a useful read.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes they were all at the defaults coming in at 24 luminance than the last one I reduced down to 10 which resulted in a much better detail file.What I will do in C1 is reduce the luminance than make that he default in 4.1 . I learned something new today and that is i agree pretty aggressive default but I can reset that to something at a lower value and pick up some detail in the 800 files. Carlos that last one was at 10 which looked pretty good. This is something I wanted to go over with Doug at CI is to find some of the best settings than apply them as defaults. One thing we need to remember is C1 is made for many camera's so defaults with one brand maybe totally different from another so I think we need to find each camera's happy spot.
Now given this , they may not be doing something on import , just the default for the P25 plus is too high on luminance. So i want to be careful here because I simply am not sure if anything else is being done or not on import. That answer will have to come from the C1 folks.
 

David K

Workshop Member
I have seen this with other Phase samples too. It seems that there is a default NR stage which you can't avoid. Not such a bad thing - these files are all usable - but it means that you can't compare Phase raw v other raw because the playing field is not level. All you can do is compare final results, and even then individual skill and preferences will come into play.

I can't see a way around it.
That may be true but the test seems valid enough to me to give an interested party a pretty good idea of what to expect. I think there are more significant differences between the Sinar and Phase backs than how well they handle noise at higher ISO. Based on Thierry's post and this test by Guy, it seems they both do a fine job of it, much better than previous generation backs.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree David the Sinar and Phase really look good at the high ISO's . I can only speak of the Phase as you all know and I don't like to do that too much because i do like to be as neutral as possible no matter how much money i spent on it . I like a level field when testing and I do know I am situations that cause noise in a big way. I am a torture tester, I like the worst case situations because that gives us all better clues as to what is going on.

No watch this the bathroom scene again . First one is the defaults of L 24 and C 43 than the second one I brought down the L to 5 and color up . So L5 C 60 and it got a little grainier but the detail is much better , now you could actually take this a step further in noise ninja and probably clean up more and when in the soup may not be a bad idea. But i do like this setting much better. I should point out again i am walking you through my process of learning and at the start i maybe wrong like i was with the Luminance being high but this stuff will happen to everyone so . This is good to know the process and what results start working better .No matter how we slice it the high ISO are working we just need to fine tune to your liking
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
See the noise picked up a touch but I like the detail better. Here is the full image of the bathroom. Okay i need to tiddy up . LOL But this is the lower L level
 

David K

Workshop Member
Downloaded your images and developed them in RAW Developer with NR set to zero. The noise is there but it's pretty darn good for the conditions.
 

Greg Seitz

New member
Guy,

Appreciate you posting these.

Here's one of your ISO 800 shots with 0 Lumi/Color noise in C1 everything else at default except wb. After developing I added a bit of Noiseware reduction in photoshop.

By the way Guy, your 100% crops are actually 50% for some reason in all of these posts. This one is a 100% crop.

Greg
 
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thsinar

Guest
Guy,

I have downloaded the files, but they are not RAWs, but TIF files. Anyway to get access to a real raw or DNG? Sorry, I don't really know how C1 handle files out of the Phase back: what goes in and what comes out?

Thanks,
Thierry

Okay some raws from the kitchen . This one is full tungsten light at ISO 800

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=995AFBB43EE5E974

and this one is from earlier in the day with mixed lighting at ISO 800

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D5E78D4A4A1FC471
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Actually looks pretty good. I blowup to 100 percent and take a section from it. There all done approximately the same though
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Guy,

I have downloaded the files, but they are not RAWs, but TIF files. Anyway to get access to a real raw or DNG? Sorry, I don't really know how C1 handle files out of the Phase back: what goes in and what comes out?

Thanks,
Thierry
There Raw file extension is .tif i would have preferred something else myself because it can be confusing in filing
 

Greg Seitz

New member
Actually looks pretty good. I blowup to 100 percent and take a section from it. There all done approximately the same though
Noiseware cleans up the chroma noise very nicely.

Check my crop against post #23, you'll see the size difference. Is it possible that your develop settings in C1 are set to 50%?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Hmmm i have it set at 100 percent but just noticed my resolution is 360 not 300 maybe the case here Greg .
 
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