Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

[dfarkas]

I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...

If what you're after is Zoom Lock (the ability to scroll through images while zoomed in to compare details, expressions, etc), then:

1) Set Zoom Lock to On in the last page of the Setup Menu

2) While in playback and image is zoomed in, press upper left key once to bring up context buttons, then press and hold upper left key again (now labeled Fit)

3) Turn dial left or right and previous or next image will be displayed with same zoom level

We cover it at 4:00 in our Playback Menu video: http://www.youtube.com/user/DalePhotoAndDigital#p/u/5/gITS-bJLTtk

Too bad your dealer never showed you this.

David

 

[fotografz]

I've got the buttons down pretty good but still need to figure out how to scroll thru images while zoomed in. I know it's in the manual somewhere...

I just figured that one out myself. But I already forgot :ROTFL:

It isn't intuitive ... you'd think that once zoomed you'd just use the big buttons ... but instead you have to get the red direction arrow to come up and then scroll.

Probably easier than that ... but I only just figured it out.

-Marc

 

[David Klepacki]

I will wire transfer the money Monday, and should have it by Weds. or Thursday.

I have a ton of GM fabrics to shoot next week, so it will be an interesting test. The swatches are only 9" X 12", so I rarely have an issue with moiré when shooting that close. But they usually contain a huge amount of detail ... and smaller macro detail swatches are cropped out for various uses.

-Marc

Marc,

So how did your shoot of GM fabrics go with your H4D-60?

David

 

[fotografz]

Marc,

So how did your shoot of GM fabrics go with your H4D-60?

David

At the last minute, I cancelled the H4D/60 order David.

Another member forwarded the opinion that my current 39/MS was as good or better for this type work, and proved it, at least to my eye.

Blasted off the entire job today (just got fabrics Friday night) and the H2F/39MF delivered like crazy. God, I love watching this thing work. The biggest issue is getting every speck of dust off the product ... the Multi-Shot shows everything.

To be honest with you, I've been underwhelmed by what I see coming out of these bigger backs ... Hassey, Leaf or Phase One. People have different criteria I guess.

I'll stick with the S2 and H2F/39MS for now and wait to see what happens next.

I just ordered a S120 Macro and a few S accessories.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

At the last minute, I cancelled the H4D/60 order David.

Another member forwarded the opinion that my current 39/MS was as good or better for this type work, and proved it, at least to my eye.

Blasted off the entire job today (just got fabrics Friday night) and the H2F/39MF delivered like crazy. God, I love watching this thing work. The biggest issue is getting every speck of dust off the product ... the Multi-Shot shows everything.

To be honest with you, I've been underwhelmed by what I see coming out of these bigger backs ... Hassey, Leaf or Phase One. People have different criteria I guess.

I'll stick with the S2 and H2F/39MS for now and wait to see what happens next.

I just ordered a S120 Macro and a few S accessories.

-Marc

But you sold your H4D40? I think that was the right decision if you already have an S2. But interesting that you were not going for the H4D60 ... makes me start thinking again what I can do ....

 

[fotografz]

But you sold your H4D40? I think that was the right decision if you already have an S2. But interesting that you were not going for the H4D60 ... makes me start thinking again what I can do ....

" ... what you can do Peter," should have nothing to do with what I am doing. We each have our own criteria, needs, and desires when making photographs.

At this time in my photographic trek, the S2 fits my vision and type of mobile work, and for now the H2F/39MS does everything I need in the studio ... and is still a 39 meg single shot when needed ... which was the best you could get not to long ago.

No doubt in my mind that Hasselblad has the best camera and focusing system, but now lags in its backs to some degree (now the only MFD with a low resolution LCD for mobile work), and Phase still lags in the camera itself. I doubt either of those situations will remain for very long. So, IMO never has there been a better time to wait and see what happens. The howling winds of change are upon us.

Strictly my opinion, and highly subject to change, I see nothing from the big meg backs that induces the "Want's and Gimme's." In fact, just the opposite. Perhaps because it's all new and not optimized yet, or perhaps because the systems themselves can't cope with it all ... like slamming a 426 Hemi into a Yugo ... :ROTFL: Doesn't matter why to me ... it just ain't working yet to my eye.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

@ Marc

yes, sure I will make my own decisions - as I need to at these price tags!

But my thoughts are very similar to yours.

1) Reiterating myself - but as a long year Leica photographer the S2 would naturally fall pretty cool into my photographing habits

2) for landscape work one does not really need more than 40MP, I proved that to me several times, even printing very big. And hell, if I would need more I can use stitching - again not a too big issue when doing landscape

3) So I am pretty well served with the H3D39 resolution wise, well it could need the TF of the H4D but I can survive, again as I am using the Hassi more for landscape .....

4) While I would love to play around with 80MP I know that there are several limitations doing so, they already come with 60MP - as most of the lenses are not really suited for that resolution - I do NOT buy the marketing garbage of all the vendors here. And as I do not need this resolution, I am really happy with what I have now.

5) There will be lot of changes and evolutions (maybe revolutions) in MFD. The S system will grow, there will be an S3 in some 2 years (hopefully) and more lenses. There will be new bodies for the Phase - I call the Phase body the current missing link in their system. There will be also I hope new things in the H system, maybe they will close the gap in their high resolution back to Phase? Maybe they will also introduce an new body, maybe weather sealed like the Pentax?

6) Yes and the Pentax, this is another very interesting MFD system, at least it has the potential to bring down prices over all!

The right thing to do with my equipment I have available is just sit and wait. Maybe do the step to buy an M9 and get rid of my Nikon stuff, because I do not use this anymore, especially since I have the GH2

But end of the day I want to get into the S system, mainly because of similar reasons like you - best IQ in 40MP, high portability and weather sealing - very robust! And maybe all I will need for the next years ---- well I know this will never happen

 

[paulmoore]

" ... what you can do Peter," should have nothing to do with what I am doing. We each have our own criteria, needs, and desires when making photographs.

At this time in my photographic trek, the S2 fits my vision and type of mobile work, and for now the H2F/39MS does everything I need in the studio ... and is still a 39 meg single shot when needed ... which was the best you could get not to long ago.

No doubt in my mind that Hasselblad has the best camera and focusing system, but now lags in its backs to some degree (now the only MFD with a low resolution LCD for mobile work), and Phase still lags in the camera itself. I doubt either of those situations will remain for very long. So, IMO never has there been a better time to wait and see what happens. The howling winds of change are upon us.

Strictly my opinion, and highly subject to change, I see nothing from the big meg backs that induces the "Want's and Gimme's." In fact, just the opposite. Perhaps because it's all new and not optimized yet, or perhaps because the systems themselves can't cope with it all ... like slamming a 426 Hemi into a Yugo ... :ROTFL: Doesn't matter why to me ... it just ain't working yet to my eye.

-Marc

wow, you don't check in for a couple of months and things really change!!
spent a few minutes trying to surf through this transition..post some shots with the new rig.
edit..found the s2 image thread..

 

[salaamss]

They have already sold a 4 figure number of Leica S2... not bad in 2010...

Where exactly did you get this "4 figure" from? Not too many professionals would put up with the Leica attitude and supply problems. The best promise I have received is 6 month wait (minimum) for the S2 - which I have ordered - and a similar wait for an extra lens, but no guarantees or specific delivery date! This is against a 3 week delivery for my H4D-31, and I received 4 extra lenses (HCD28, HC100/2.2, HC150/3.2) within 1 week of ordering from Robert White and/or local dealer (same day/in stock). I wonder how many people (especially pros) actually have received and are shooting out there with S2s!!! It's not just about lens quality and IQ.. it is also about availability of product & reliability of service!

 

[fotografz]

Depends on circumstances and your dealer I guess.

S2P, and all four lenses currently available delivered with-in a month and are at work in the studio.

Only just took delivery of the H4D/60 I ordered 1.5 years ago.

-Marc

 

[leicashot]

Simple solution for me when deciding on Leica S2 vs H4D. i contacted both companies before deciding and Leica ignored me, and Hasselblad bent over backwards.

Neither brand will take better pictures, nor will either make me more money. Service is all that matters at this end of the spectrum, and no matter what 'perceived' advantages the S2, 'may' have, Hasselblad is the camera now in my hands.

 

[fotografz]

Simple solution for me when deciding on Leica S2 vs H4D. i contacted both companies before deciding and Leica ignored me, and Hasselblad bent over backwards.

Neither brand will take better pictures, nor will either make me more money. Service is all that matters at this end of the spectrum, and no matter what 'perceived' advantages the S2, 'may' have, Hasselblad is the camera now in my hands.

No disagreement from me on this. Advantages are indeed "perceived" and depend on personal preferences not any quantifiable proof. Service, and availability of replacements or rentals is a key factor if you make your living with these tools. Leica has recently proved themselves in this regard with a S2 issue, and so has Hasselblad when they recently turned my 100/2.2 repair around in little over a week. There is no doubt that the H is the more versatile system with many tools and various adaptabilities to fit almost any need or assignment.

Fortunately, I have excellent dealers for both brands ... long relationships with solid connections ... I don't deal directly with the companies, they do. My relationship is with them one-on-one. I've used the same Leica dealer for 20+ years ... a S2 lens comes in as part of his consignment and I'm always first on the list, same for the M stuff. Same H dealer for 7 years now, I want/need something, he makes it happen ... or comes by, and helps me set something up.

Good shooting to you!

-Marc

 

[leicashot]

No disagreement from me on this. Advantages are indeed "perceived" and depend on personal preferences not any quantifiable proof. Service, and availability of replacements or rentals is a key factor if you make your living with these tools. Leica has recently proved themselves in this regard with a S2 issue, and so has Hasselblad when they recently turned my 100/2.2 repair around in little over a week. There is no doubt that the H is the more versatile system with many tools and various adaptabilities to fit almost any need or assignment.

Fortunately, I have excellent dealers for both brands ... long relationships with solid connections ... I don't deal directly with the companies, they do. My relationship is with them one-on-one. I've used the same Leica dealer for 20+ years ... a S2 lens comes in as part of his consignment and I'm always first on the list, same for the M stuff. Same H dealer for 7 years now, I want/need something, he makes it happen ... or comes by, and helps me set something up.

Good shooting to you!

-Marc

Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.

 

[fotografz]

Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.

That is strictly an opinion that depends on the use, applications and circumstances don't you think? I know some professionals that are either shooting with the S2, or are seriously considering it. I sure the heck didn't buy it to shoot doggie pics (even though I may shoot my doggie if I feel like it: -)

In terms of usability, it's a quick a spontaneous camera to work with compared to the traditional MFD ... well suited to fashion, high-end event, corporate and people work ... producing files that are aesthetic companions to my M9 which I personally like a lot. And it is completely weather sealed including the lenses ... which is useful to some people.

Price was, is, and will continue to be a gripe ... it's Leica, so what's new? M and R were always premium priced, hard to get and almost cult like ... now S2 optics are also relatively expensive and hard to get. However, I can't recall ever losing money on any Leica optic, ... which I can't say for any other series of lenses including the H/C line-up. So, it's all relative. The S2 120 Macro is a f/2.5 optic ... making it unique compared to all the other MFD Macros.

No disparaging of Hasselblad ... it's my weapon of choice for a lot of commercial applications requiring more specialized accessories and functions ... or use on a technical camera with T/S. Time will tell how well developed the S2 system will become ... but all I want/need is a 24mm and 1.4XAPO for the 180 and I'd be set.

But as always, love the one you are with is the best policy for maintaining sanity!

-Marc

 

[leicashot]

That is strictly an opinion that depends on the use, applications and circumstances don't you think? I know some professionals that are either shooting with the S2, or are seriously considering it. I sure the heck didn't buy it to shoot doggie pics (even though I may shoot my doggie if I feel like it: -)

In terms of usability, it's a quick a spontaneous camera to work with compared to the traditional MFD ... well suited to fashion, high-end event, corporate and people work ... producing files that are aesthetic companions to my M9 which I personally like a lot. And it is completely weather sealed including the lenses ... which is useful to some people.

Price was, is, and will continue to be a gripe ... it's Leica, so what's new? M and R were always premium priced, hard to get and almost cult like ... now S2 optics are also relatively expensive and hard to get. However, I can't recall ever losing money on any Leica optic, ... which I can't say for any other series of lenses including the H/C line-up. So, it's all relative. The S2 120 Macro is a f/2.5 optic ... making it unique compared to all the other MFD Macros.

No disparaging of Hasselblad ... it's my weapon of choice for a lot of commercial applications requiring more specialized accessories and functions ... or use on a technical camera with T/S. Time will tell how well developed the S2 system will become ... but all I want/need is a 24mm and 1.4XAPO for the 180 and I'd be set.

But as always, love the one you are with is the best policy for maintaining sanity!

-Marc

You haven't changed a bit from the photo.net days Marc...always great points that are hard to argue

 

[fotografz]

You haven't changed a bit from the photo.net days Marc...always great points that are hard to argue

My wife would disagree ... :ROTFL:

All the best,

-Marc

 

[stngoldberg]

We all come here to share our experiences and knowledge in the use of these sophisticated cameras. I personally couldn't care less what anyone chooses or doesn't choose. I learn a lot here, and share a lot here, and do NOT find it to be an overly "sensitive" forum at all ... but will share knowledge or opinions if I disagree or have another perspective.

Based on experience:

Dust will eventually get on the sensor of any digital camera with a removable lens unless you only use it in a computer clean room or never remove the lens ... including the S2. People who shoot a fully weather sealed Canon 1 series pro camera also have to clean the sensor from time to time. The weather sealing of the S2 has other major advantages for certain types of shooting, but a spotless sensor isn't one of them.

The H battery is no different from any other Lithium battery. Reseting the battery fuel gauge is usually attributable to not conditioning the battery per instructions in the manual ... which people tend to not read, and then wonder why something doesn't work the way they want ... been there, done that myself .

I noted the procedure to reset the H battery fuel gauge in my post above. It takes all of 5 seconds, and once done shouldn't be needed again ... IF you follow the directions in the manual and deplete the battery fully a couple of times a year and then fully recharge it for 12 hours. I rarely, if ever, need my second H battery during a shoot.

Plus, we have to remember that the H camera uses one battery to drive both the camera and the back as opposed to the need for two separate battery supplies on other MFD modular cameras.

If you do long sessions in the studio with the camera on for long periods of time using lots of the energy draining features, I recommend the AC H power grip. I also like it because I always have a powered camera for impromptu shoots without having to worry if I have a fully charged-up battery at the ready all of the time.

If you repeatedly have to re-set anything else on the camera, then something is wrong and your Hasselblad dealer should be consulted.

That's the info based on actually using this stuff for a long time, take it or leave it.

-Marc

My Hasselblad dealer, Peter Lorber, recently showed me how to reduce substantialy dust getting into my HD4. If you remove your viewfinder and place a thick elastic rubber band over the area that connects the back to the camera body, you effectively create a seal that greatly reduces the possibility of dust getting into the back. The viewfinder easily reattaches

 

[leicashot]

My Hasselblad dealer, Peter Lorber, recently showed me how to reduce substantialy dust getting into my HD4. If you remove your viewfinder and place a thick elastic rubber band over the area that connects the back to the camera body, you effectively create a seal that greatly reduces the possibility of dust getting into the back. The viewfinder easily reattaches

Any chance of seeing picture of this so we don't elasticize our H4D's

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Gotta say, the Leica system is way overpriced for professionals and seems their market, as usual, are the wealthy serious amateurs. For example, their leaf shutter standard lens is 3x the price of the Hasselblad, and their 120mm macro is double the price. Perceived performance differences aside, the Leica advantage diminishes at this price point, at least IMHO. The S2 has no real usability advantages ove the H system, unlike it's M series over DSLR's. A really nice camera, no doubt, but typical Leica pricing without practical justification.

I owned an H3D and H4D, and enjoyed shooting with the S2 more. The advantages I experienced with the S2, were battery performance, which is far superior to Hasselblad. The S2's weather sealing is not marketing hype either, that camera loves crappy weather! Although, I give Leica a win for better glass right in the camera, I prefer the aspect ratio of the H. I took more pictures with the S2 too, it's more fun to use. The S2's price with lenses though, is somewhat insulting for a closed system, so my choice now is Phase One, with it's ability to adapt to many different cameras.

 

[woodyspedden]

Well, when you are wrong, you have to fess up to it ...

I finally bothered to read the S2 manual, and found a simple overlooked fact ... three of the S2 buttons can be assigned direct access functions which are activated by pressing the button and holding it very briefly as opposed to tapping it which brings up a full menu. Duh!

I now can access ISO, WB, and exposure comp instantly, making the camera very fast for how I will use it. :thumbs:

What a dummy.

-Marc

Hey Marc

You need to go to David Farkas site and watch the video tutorials he and Josh Lehrer prepared for new S2 users. If you had, you would have already had your buttons programmed. Not being sarcastic here, just that for me, I viewed the six tutorials immediately after purchasing the system and it cut my learning curve immeasurably.

Happy shooting

Woody