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Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

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johnnygoesdigital

New member
Hi Derek,
You're right about my posts against Hasselblad, and perhaps I have taken it too far. It was a big step for me to transition to MFD, and the anticipation was extraordinary. I mentioned before that my camera issues were probably isolated and not indicative of Hasselblad, and obviously, I was right, as many of you have had great results and are very satisfied. That's a good thing for MFD and an industry as a whole. Ultimately, I lost money and had my passion derailed somewhat. I know I took a few cheap shots and my apologies to all who I've offended, but that's how I felt. By sharing experiences with others might isolate potential manufacture defects if a pattern is apparent.

I guess as I was on my rants, I realized I'm the only one standing on this side and it felt kinda lonely...I admire the passion that all have expressed, and will officially move on. Wait, one more, AAHHHHGGAAAHHHH!!!, okay, now it's official. Thanks to all.
 
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johnnygoesdigital

New member
FINAL RESULT: Leica S2 vs Hasselblad H4D

WINNER: Marc Williams
I'm not posting comments for a popularity contest, only from user experience from owning the Hasselblad H3D and H4D, but if you or Marc start experiencing similar issues, i'd be curious to see how you'd react if you kept having weeks of downtime and no camera. If a photographer doesn't have several MFD to choose from, then the frustration mounts and loyalty wanes. I shoot a lot of travel/destination and environmental portraits, so rental backups aren't always an option either. I'm sure you'll enjoy your Hasselblad and take many memorable photographs. The key word is "user" forum, so try not to judge just because you or others don't like the tone.
 

BANKER1

Member
Thanks Johnny. It took a lot of moral strength to make that post. Those of us who love our Hasselblad systems take offense at being portrayed as a little gullible or, shall I say "stupid", for choosing Hasselblad. Having said that, I hope my system doesn't fall apart now! Without outlining every strength regarding the Hasselblad system, just let me say that it works and works very well. To each his own...Live and let live; and every other cliche that comes to mind. I really don't have time to worry about trivia (i.e. silly arguments).

Greg
 

leicashot

New member
I'm not posting comments for a popularity contest, only from user experience from owning the Hasselblad H3D and H4D, but if you or Marc start experiencing similar issues, i'd be curious to see how you'd react if you kept having weeks of downtime and no camera. If a photographer doesn't have several MFD to choose from, then the frustration mounts and loyalty wanes. I shoot a lot of travel/destination and environmental portraits, so rental backups aren't always an option either. I'm sure you'll enjoy your Hasselblad and take many memorable photographs. The key word is "user" forum, so try not to judge just because you or others don't like the tone.
I'm a little confused. Was there something wrong with my last post?
 

jecxz

Active member
No apology necessary, your frustration is understandable. I hope you are happy with your new equipment (Phase1, correct?) and you should continue to share your experiences. Don't feel alone, you are not. Be well.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz
http://www.jecxz.com
http://www.facebook.com/derek.jecxz.photographer

Hi Derek,
You're right about my posts against Hasselblad, and perhaps I have taken it too far. It was a big step for me to transition to MFD, and the anticipation was extraordinary. I mentioned before that my camera issues were probably isolated and not indicative of Hasselblad, and obviously, I was right, as many of you have had great results and are very satisfied. That's a good thing for MFD and an industry as a whole. Ultimately, I lost money and had my passion derailed somewhat. I know I took a few cheap shots and my apologies to all who I've offended, but that's how I felt. By sharing experiences with others might isolate potential manufacture defects if a pattern is apparent.

I guess as I was on my rants, I realized I'm the only one standing on this side and it felt kinda lonely...I admire the passion that all have expressed, and will officially move on. Wait, one more, AAHHHHGGAAAHHHH!!!, okay, now it's official. Thanks to all.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
If there is any lesson here it is that MFD takes knowledge, patience and time. Every single system made has potential issues from either the gear and/or the user ... and as Guy has mentioned more than once, there is usually some solution or work-around for it ... if not immediately, eventually. The other cardinal rule is "look before you leap".

If I had not exercised patience with my S2 venture, I would not be shooting with a S2 now. The first one had a cracked sensor cover, and the second one failed due to a shutter release fault. I suppose I could have then favored something else in my frustration and dashed expectations, and ranted endlessly every time a satisfied user mentioned a S2 ... or worked with the rep and company to resolve the issues.

In the end, even if the S2 was perfect out of the box and had not meet my high expectations, then that would have been my fault for not doing my homework and insisting on a test drive ... which any of these makers will provide (I did two with the S2). This is a great forum for information, as are the dealers or companies, but none of that replaces actually using the gear yourself. For example, even though I am pretty experienced with the H system after 8 prior cameras, I insisted on a test day with the H4D/60 upgrade before committing.

Personally, I much prefer just reporting experiences as some sort of indicator for others to consider ... nothing is gospel from anyone ... it's just friendly sharing. Otherwise, what's the point?

Be well, shoot well,

-Marc
 

Professional

Active member
And sometimes when i come here to read experiences, i feel i can't learn anything because everyone trying to make decisions on his impressions, so i can't tell which experience i have to follow as a guide, and also not a failed experience of someone means it will be failed with me or someone else too, but what i really don't like is when people trying to make their tools/gear as it is the ultimate and the best over others gear, i know someone who told me that my Hasselblad will serve me on one field and i have to replace it or look at another MFD for something else, and he is experienced and know the gear very well, so should i follow him or just use what i have and later i worry if it will work or not?!!!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
If i may go back here for a second on the dust issue. Not sure if Hassy is any worse or any better than anything else in this area . The rubber band thing did make me scratch my head thinking. LOL

Anyway lets face it with any system Pentax, Leica, Hassy, Phase and Sinar bodies the biggest single factor is big hole in front of big sensor. Dust will get in just like water will eventually seep into something. Now obviously the back solution it is easier for cleaning and honestly switching out my back to a Alpa/Arca type cam in the field sometimes can be a dust bowl. No back here is going to avoid that. The one thing that maybe could make a difference is the type of glass used . Maybe some has more static. Guessing here but regardless dust will get in.
 

leicashot

New member
If there is any lesson here it is that MFD takes knowledge, patience and time. Every single system made has potential issues from either the gear and/or the user ... and as Guy has mentioned more than once, there is usually some solution or work-around for it ... if not immediately, eventually. The other cardinal rule is "look before you leap".

If I had not exercised patience with my S2 venture, I would not be shooting with a S2 now. The first one had a cracked sensor cover, and the second one failed due to a shutter release fault. I suppose I could have then favored something else in my frustration and dashed expectations, and ranted endlessly every time a satisfied user mentioned a S2 ... or worked with the rep and company to resolve the issues.

In the end, even if the S2 was perfect out of the box and had not meet my high expectations, then that would have been my fault for not doing my homework and insisting on a test drive ... which any of these makers will provide (I did two with the S2). This is a great forum for information, as are the dealers or companies, but none of that replaces actually using the gear yourself. For example, even though I am pretty experienced with the H system after 8 prior cameras, I insisted on a test day with the H4D/60 upgrade before committing.

Personally, I much prefer just reporting experiences as some sort of indicator for others to consider ... nothing is gospel from anyone ... it's just friendly sharing. Otherwise, what's the point?

Be well, shoot well,

-Marc
Marc you were a big part of the reason I participated in the old photo.net Leica forum, and the reason I'm here on GetDPI, but now I'm a new fish learning the ropes of MFD. Your eloquent way of putting things is truly valued and information put to good use.
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
If i may go back here for a second on the dust issue. Not sure if Hassy is any worse or any better than anything else in this area . The rubber band thing did make me scratch my head thinking. LOL

Anyway lets face it with any system Pentax, Leica, Hassy, Phase and Sinar bodies the biggest single factor is big hole in front of big sensor. Dust will get in just like water will eventually seep into something. Now obviously the back solution it is easier for cleaning and honestly switching out my back to a Alpa/Arca type cam in the field sometimes can be a dust bowl. No back here is going to avoid that. The one thing that maybe could make a difference is the type of glass used . Maybe some has more static. Guessing here but regardless dust will get in.
Guy, excellent points. I always ground myself before cleaning or removing gear. Just walking across the carpet can generate enough electricity to zap your cameras delicate electronics. Discharge the static and turn off the camera/DB prior to cleaning.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
And sometimes when i come here to read experiences, i feel i can't learn anything because everyone trying to make decisions on his impressions, so i can't tell which experience i have to follow as a guide, and also not a failed experience of someone means it will be failed with me or someone else too, but what i really don't like is when people trying to make their tools/gear as it is the ultimate and the best over others gear, i know someone who told me that my Hasselblad will serve me on one field and i have to replace it or look at another MFD for something else, and he is experienced and know the gear very well, so should i follow him or just use what i have and later i worry if it will work or not?!!!
In cases like this it has to be very specific information. Most any of these modular MFD systems can do most anything that the other can ... with some systems it is harder to do certain things than with others, where the other may be better/easier at something else ... the important thing is to have a pretty good grasp on what your expectations are going in ... not after the fact.

I'm not sure I've seen or heard anyone here on Get DPI say their kit was better at everything than something else. It is better for them, not everyone. As far as credibility, I simply follow the same method as I do when reading any statement in literature, art or photography ... who's doing the talking? What's their work look like? Does that work bear any relationship to the type of photography I do, or want to do? For example, someone like Marco Grob bears more relationship to my inclinations than any landscape photographer no matter how great/famous they may be. Landscapes are not my area of interest ... even though I could do them with the gear I have, I didn't select based on that criteria.

I do think a majority of trouble and frustration crops up when someone hasn't yet defined a personal direction in photography and jumps into one of these relatively specialized and very expensive MFD systems. Someone buying a Pentax 645D, or a S2 at the other end of the price spectrum, will be very disappointed if they changed course and wanted to shoot with a technical field camera like an ALPA. So, they end up having to buy something else to fulfill their new found interest.

-Marc
 

Professional

Active member
In cases like this it has to be very specific information. Most any of these modular MFD systems can do most anything that the other can ... with some systems it is harder to do certain things than with others, where the other may be better/easier at something else ... the important thing is to have a pretty good grasp on what your expectations are going in ... not after the fact.

I'm not sure I've seen or heard anyone here on Get DPI say their kit was better at everything than something else. It is better for them, not everyone. As far as credibility, I simply follow the same method as I do when reading any statement in literature, art or photography ... who's doing the talking? What's their work look like? Does that work bear any relationship to the type of photography I do, or want to do? For example, someone like Marco Grob bears more relationship to my inclinations than any landscape photographer no matter how great/famous they may be. Landscapes are not my area of interest ... even though I could do them with the gear I have, I didn't select based on that criteria.

I do think a majority of trouble and frustration crops up when someone hasn't yet defined a personal direction in photography and jumps into one of these relatively specialized and very expensive MFD systems. Someone buying a Pentax 645D, or a S2 at the other end of the price spectrum, will be very disappointed if they changed course and wanted to shoot with a technical field camera like an ALPA. So, they end up having to buy something else to fulfill their new found interest.

-Marc
Correct, and honestly speaking, i think i will waste time and money because i am just a hobbyist and don't earn money at all as many here do, and i shoot many things [will not say everything], so this will lead me to get or need more than one system or MFD, my main photography is landscape and outdoors, this including architecture, but i bought H3DII39 and replaced or traded in with H4D-60, from what i see and hear, i think Tech camera is the best architecture, even that person told me it will be better for landscape over my H series, so i use my H4D-60 for portraits and studio, i do shoot landscape and outdoor with it, but i think it is not the best tool for it even if i can shoot with it, now if i have to replace it for Tech camera and DB then i will be not comfortable to use it for portraits and studio or even portraits outdoors or indoors[non studio], then i will look back for Hasselblad or Pentax or similar SLR-like system, at the end it seems most of you choosing one type or so of photography and focusing on it rather than doing different styles and types, so means one system right will the job for you.

And another honest speaking, if i got all MFD systems in the market, i will be happy with all of them, i will be happy to use H4D and S2 for portraits and will never say that one is better over the other, so my point is not which system is to get, but the point is how many MFD system to get if i want to do many different applications like landscapes and portraits and sports and and and?!!!!!!
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Correct, and honestly speaking, i think i will waste time and money because i am just a hobbyist and don't earn money at all as many here do, and i shoot many things [will not say everything], so this will lead me to get or need more than one system or MFD, my main photography is landscape and outdoors, this including architecture, but i bought H3DII39 and replaced or traded in with H4D-60, from what i see and hear, i think Tech camera is the best architecture, even that person told me it will be better for landscape over my H series, so i use my H4D-60 for portraits and studio, i do shoot landscape and outdoor with it, but i think it is not the best tool for it even if i can shoot with it, now if i have to replace it for Tech camera and DB then i will be not comfortable to use it for portraits and studio or even portraits outdoors or indoors[non studio], then i will look back for Hasselblad or Pentax or similar SLR-like system, at the end it seems most of you choosing one type or so of photography and focusing on it rather than doing different styles and types, so means one system right will the job for you.

And another honest speaking, if i got all MFD systems in the market, i will be happy with all of them, i will be happy to use H4D and S2 for portraits and will never say that one is better over the other, so my point is not which system is to get, but the point is how many MFD system to get if i want to do many different applications like landscapes and portraits and sports and and and?!!!!!!
This is the kind of specific info that leads to more a specific dialog. In the case of a generalists type photographer who is interested in many different types of photography like you are, then I personally would not recommend something like a S2 or Pentax 645D, nor any of the modular MFD systems with a DB that creates issues when using tech camera movements.

The addition of a tech field camera like the ALPA is a popular choice among modular MFD system generalists users, and really doesn't represent a mistake in choosing which DSLR type camera system, (unless you select the wrong type back). All it does is make the modular systems more versatile by giving you more options to accomplish your different end photos.

In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, I'd like a S2 for general shooting with MFD IQ over a 35mm DSLR, while understanding the limitations ... the H4D/60 so I can choose any focal length to shoot outdoor environmental portraits with strobes, or to do certain work in studio, requiring 1/800th HSS with any of the 11 focal lengths in the HC system, and I am partial to the H4D focus innovations for the way I tend to shoot off-center compositions while using wider apertures, plus I like the option of a waist-level finder for a different perspective ... and IF I worked a lot with a tech camera/ALPA, a Phase One IQ 80 meg back because the current lenses on a tech camera are up to it, and the innovations for helping focus the darned thing are unique and wonderful. Even then, should I be more interested in long exposure work at night, I'd revert back to the P45 DB over the IQ line. So, even if one were able to have it all, there are still major informed decisions to be made.

However, it is pretty rare that anyone can afford all of the above or even want to invest that much in ultimate diversity, so we have to make compromises somewhere. For me it was just adding the little HTS/1.5 for limited PC control knowing that the IQ is not the equal of a true Tech camera with HD lenses from Schneider or Rodenstock ... but it works for my limited need field applications, and I have a full blown Xact2 with HD lenses for critical work in studio with the H4D/60 DB.

Were I you, I'd wait a bit to see what the forthcoming independent battery solution for the H4D/60 looks like which may make using the back on a tech field camera work better/easier than current solutions.

Marc
 

Professional

Active member
This is the kind of specific info that leads to more a specific dialog. In the case of a generalists type photographer who is interested in many different types of photography like you are, then I personally would not recommend something like a S2 or Pentax 645D, nor any of the modular MFD systems with a DB that creates issues when using tech camera movements.

The addition of a tech field camera like the ALPA is a popular choice among modular MFD system generalists users, and really doesn't represent a mistake in choosing which DSLR type camera system, (unless you select the wrong type back). All it does is make the modular systems more versatile by giving you more options to accomplish your different end photos.

In a perfect world, with unlimited funds, I'd like a S2 for general shooting with MFD IQ over a 35mm DSLR, while understanding the limitations ... the H4D/60 so I can choose any focal length to shoot outdoor environmental portraits with strobes, or to do certain work in studio, requiring 1/800th HSS with any of the 11 focal lengths in the HC system, and I am partial to the H4D focus innovations for the way I tend to shoot off-center compositions while using wider apertures, plus I like the option of a waist-level finder for a different perspective ... and IF I worked a lot with a tech camera/ALPA, a Phase One IQ 80 meg back because the current lenses on a tech camera are up to it, and the innovations for helping focus the darned thing are unique and wonderful. Even then, should I be more interested in long exposure work at night, I'd revert back to the P45 DB over the IQ line. So, even if one were able to have it all, there are still major informed decisions to be made.

However, it is pretty rare that anyone can afford all of the above or even want to invest that much in ultimate diversity, so we have to make compromises somewhere. For me it was just adding the little HTS/1.5 for limited PC control knowing that the IQ is not the equal of a true Tech camera with HD lenses from Schneider or Rodenstock ... but it works for my limited need field applications, and I have a full blown Xact2 with HD lenses for critical work in studio with the H4D/60 DB.

Were I you, I'd wait a bit to see what the forthcoming independent battery solution for the H4D/60 looks like which may make using the back on a tech field camera work better/easier than current solutions.

Marc
Ofcourse i will wait, i may afford that HTS in the future but the review of it making me to think getting a Tech camera and using my H60is better than using HTS, but i will wait a bit longer, who knows what will be there, and someone here [you know who i am talking about] posted shots from his Hasselblad 60mp on an Alpa camera, so if he did that it means it can be done, even he faces some problems with power or something else at least he did it, so i can save bucks to use my H4D60 back on a tech camera if i get one more than buying another DB of Phase One or Leaf which is almost equal or more than my H4D-60, i am not looking for getting rid of my H4D-60 yet, but if i will have a tech camera sooner or later then that means i must have a DB, so if my H4D-60 is not compatible or not possible, how can i get another DB with no money left? Lucky who have even another MF even same model as backup, i can't have even MFD as backup.

So for what i should use my H4D-60 for its best job? What i need/add to give it more advantage usage and performance?
 

jlm

Workshop Member
there is a side of me that wants to say: get simple, minimize your variables and gear and focus on the craft before you start to get so many cameras, backs, lenses, etc.

there is plenty to work on with post-processing and printing skills, for example, that will cross over to any platform you choose.

With the H4D60 you have an amazing camera, possibly one of the very best DSLR ever made. Get the most out of that before adding the craziness of a tech camera
 

leicashot

New member
Ofcourse i will wait, i may afford that HTS in the future but the review of it making me to think getting a Tech camera and using my H60is better than using HTS, but i will wait a bit longer, who knows what will be there, and someone here [you know who i am talking about] posted shots from his Hasselblad 60mp on an Alpa camera, so if he did that it means it can be done, even he faces some problems with power or something else at least he did it, so i can save bucks to use my H4D60 back on a tech camera if i get one more than buying another DB of Phase One or Leaf which is almost equal or more than my H4D-60, i am not looking for getting rid of my H4D-60 yet, but if i will have a tech camera sooner or later then that means i must have a DB, so if my H4D-60 is not compatible or not possible, how can i get another DB with no money left? Lucky who have even another MF even same model as backup, i can't have even MFD as backup.

So for what i should use my H4D-60 for its best job? What i need/add to give it more advantage usage and performance?
Honestly, it sounds like you picked up you H4D-60 at a local 7 Eleven and don't even know what it is....why did you buy it in the first place?
 

Professional

Active member
I am not giving up my camera, and also i was not knowledgable enough about tech cameras that time, i bought H3D before i know much about tech cameras, and i replaces that H3D to H4D because i got an offer, it is a great camera for what it should be used [portraits, studio,...], i will not give up or i will not say it is a bad camera, but here seeing people posting landscapes and architecture photos from tech cameras making to think that i should get that gear instead of H4D, but now i can't sale or replace my H4D, so the only option is buy a tech camera in the future, until that time i have to read more and use my H4D more, and i am not willing to spend more to buy HTS and then i have to sell it later, until now i am happy with H4D and i should not complain that it is not the best tool for architecture maybe, but i have to be ready later in the future when i get one, and nowadays those halos about those Phase One IQ backs making me to feel that H4 bodies are dying into darkness.
Don't take it as i am frustrated with H4D or i want to through it very soon, just as it is with my Canon DSLR, i don't use one body for everything even it can be done.
 
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