Some advice please - Hasselblad Cameras

[tim driver]

Hi,

I'm Tim I joined yesterday and I am a photographer shooting mainly weddings on the east coast of England.

I have been looking at MF digital outfits for some time and they are now coming into the price range where I would love to start shooting parts of the wedding day with MF - Formals and Portraits / fashion type shot etc.

I used to shoot Bronica back in film days and now shoot on a pair of Nikon D3's but love working with quadra rangers so long for a system with a leaf shutter so its looking like a hasselblad system for me.

I have used a hd3-31 briefly and like the camera,looking at UK dealers I can afford and have options of

HD32-31 (£2000/$3000 less than a HD4-31)
H4D-31 new and ex demo H3d2-39 at nearly the same price

and if I was to sell some other kit I could stretch to a HD4-40

I would love to throw a few questions out there to those of you with some more experience I know this is all subjective but would really appreciate some opinions before arranging trips to dealers who are all 200 miles from home.

1. For those who have shot HD3 and HD4 How much difference has the true focus made to the ease of use / quality of results you are seeing remembering I am going to be shooting outside the studio?

2. Which of the sensors hd3II-39 hd4-31 and hd4-40 would you consider to be the most flexible in terms of shooting also how much difference does the higher resolution make in reality when making big prints say 24 x 36

3.How does the new 40 back compare being new to the lineup ?

4. is the HD4-31 sensor the same as the previous model as it is advertised with 1600 iso? is this back capable of this or has it been engineered as a marketing tool ?

Thanks for taking pity on a newbie with stupid questions

Tim

 

[ptomsu]

Tim,

welcome to the forum, you will find this one of the greatest places to be!

Coming back to your questions:

1) If I would buy today I would go for a H4D40, especially for applications like weddings etc. True Focus is one of the outstanding features and that really helps for portraits etc. Also the extended ISO capabilities of the H4D40 will be good - the only MFDB which runs full resolution at ISO 400 as far as I know.

2) I use myself the H3D39 since more that a year and I am pretty happy with that sensor. Having said that. I use it for landscape mainly, so I was looking for a larger sensor rather that higher ISO. And I was lucky to get a CPO (Customer Pre Owned) camera, which is a piece checked by Hasselblad and with full guarantee for a very attractive price - in my was it was some 50% below regular. BTW I would ask if there are currently CPO promotions!

Coming to the flexibility of the sensor - again if I had to buy new (without CPO) I would choose the H4D40 - especially for your applications. And the get all the lenses you need and sell all the other stuff.

3) The 40 back uses latest sensor technology (from Kodak) with 5um pixel size. I guess it also uses micro lenses in front of the sensor to get the extra stop. And it can be used on tech cameras - which is pretty cool.

4) As far as I know the H4D31 is the same sensor as always, but slightly reengineered. To be honest if I buy into this system - it MUST FIT your needs and your type of shooting, which I assume in this case - I would rather sell all my other stuff I do not need and go for the H4D40 wit some lenses I need.

 

[symbolphoto]

Tim, i suspect we follow each other around on different forums... DWF, POTN ( I think)

I do mainly weddings and i agree that the H4D40 is a great option. The H4D31 is the same 31 back as the H3DII-31 back. (Which is what i'm using).

I have a thread on DWF about it. http://www.digitalweddingforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345129

Lots of talk from different photographers about using them at weddings ^

I use it for the formals between ceremony and reception, and sometimes on engagement sessions. But not much else, pertaining to wedding days. I have some pics here for you to check out if you are interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/symbolphotography/sets/72157624913368149/

Marc (Photografz) here is also an avid wedding photographer and will undoubtedly have some more to add.

 

[tim driver]

Thanks Guys - Its kind of backing up what I thought / feared - Didnt realise the 40 was that recent in terms of sensor technology - So has anyone actually used the 40 ?

Brendan - I'm on DWF - think I have a POTN account but rarely visit - Love the pic's thats pretty much the look I am going for

Lots of talk from other wedding photographers and not much action ... (A few exceptions)

Having worked on 6x6 in the past I know using 35mm Digital has made me lazy and I shoot far too many average images with a motordrive and know working with MF will slow me down and make me think more about the images. There are parts of the day it is definitely a non starter for and will need to mix and match with the D3 but would rather go for the quality now rather than replace 2 D3's with updated versions because I can when the latest and greatest comes out .

Brendan - Is there any reason why toy havent attempted to use the camera on more of the wedding day ? - How do you find iso 1600 on the 31 back ?

Tim

 

[symbolphoto]

Tim,

For me 1600 while possible, is a bit too noisy for me. 800 is usable, but 1600 pushes my limit. We could use it during the wedding day, but i prefer to just restrict it to certain parts of the day.

First reason - it's relatively slow shooting, i can get many more shots with the 5DMKII's during critical moments.
Second reason - RAW file size is fine. 35MB average each. But if i retouch them and keep them on the hard drive, they take up like over 100mb each. So it's not very cost effective unless you run several terabytes and dont mind keeping extra storage around.

That all being said, I LOVE to shoot this camera. It just feels right. It's hard to explain. It does make you think and you do slow down. The image quality is so much better than 35mm, and the colors through Phocus are just fantastic.

So speaking of that, your workflow will change slightly also... when you shoot with this, you can just open the raw files with Lightroom, but i personally suggest using Phocus and then importing to Lightroom. Just one extra step. The corrections in Phocus make it worthwhile.

 

[tim driver]

Brendan,

Are you literally just opening the files in phocus letting it make some automated adjustments and saving them or do you adjust the files manually ? If so can this be batched ?

Tim

 

[Simon Revill]

I'm also new here and I think Tim and I aren't helping each other - or rather aren't helping our respective bank balances ...

I am looking to use the system the same way and have a couple of questions that may seem obvious but it does get very confusing

1. The Hasselblad leaf shutters sync at 1/800 - but do they also only have a max shutter speed of 1/800 for normal shooting ?

2. The Phase DF syncs at 1/1600 ? but I can't find its max shutter speed ? and has anyone actually used the sensor + system and its supposed benefit for high ISO

 

[yaya]

2. The Phase DF syncs at 1/1600 ? but I can't find its max shutter speed ? and has anyone actually used the sensor + system and its supposed benefit for high ISO

The 645DF when used with either a Leaf Aptus-II 5/7/8/10/12 or Phase One P40+/65+ and one of the LS lenses can sync at up to 1/1,600 and the max shutter speed (focal plane) is 1/4,000

HTH

Yair

 

[symbolphoto]

Brendan,

Are you literally just opening the files in phocus letting it make some automated adjustments and saving them or do you adjust the files manually ? If so can this be batched ?

Tim

You can batch the auto corrections, but i also adjust in Phocus as well. This isn't necessary, but i feel like the files have a little more fine-tuning in Phocus than they do in Lightroom. And i incorrectly stated that i do files from Phocus into Lightroom, i made a mistake. I meant i do corrections in Phocus and go straight to Photoshop.

In terms of sync speed, ALL Hasselblad lenses sync to 1/800th. Only a few LS lenses from Phamiya sync at 1/1600th. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing out that there is a different in the selection one has.

.02

 

[symbolphoto]

1. The Hasselblad leaf shutters sync at 1/800 - but do they also only have a max shutter speed of 1/800 for normal shooting ?

Yes, max shutter speed is 1/800th. While this may sound limiting at first you need to remember a couple things... firstly the lenses have a higher range. F32 is typically the upper range for most of these lenses. Secondly, the dynamic range (This is a hugely arguable point by many) is higher on MF and able to handle highlights better.

That being said, shooting on a sunny day at 1/800th F16 is no problem at all. If you want to shoot at F2.2 you'll need an ND filter however.

I'm taking mine out with the 35-90 tomorrow on a helicopter flight. I'll be sure to post some pics here of harsh sun and shooting speeds.

 

[symbolphoto]

Actually, i just found this image which has all exif info intact, (in fact all of my photos do)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/symbolphotography/4851255695/meta/in/set-72157624913368149

Very bright midday sun, F9 at 1/750th and a Quadra all firing at the same time.

 

[tim driver]

Looks like sun pretty much overhead and quadra over your right shoulder - Nice picture

Remember to strap everything to you if your flying with doors open

Tim

 

[Simon Revill]

Thanks for the replies

 

[symbolphoto]

Remember to strap everything to you if your flying with doors open

Tim

No doubt, not my first time. Funny story on my first time though - we are riding along and suddenly my exposures get a lot brighter, check my settings, nothing changed. One of my CP filters unscrewed itself and pooof..... somewhere over downtown Boston. :ROTFL:

 

[jerome]

Hi,

1. For those who have shot HD3 and HD4 How much difference has the true focus made to the ease of use / quality of results you are seeing remembering I am going to be shooting outside the studio?

2. Which of the sensors hd3II-39 hd4-31 and hd4-40 would you consider to be the most flexible in terms of shooting also how much difference does the higher resolution make in reality when making big prints say 24 x 36

3.How does the new 40 back compare being new to the lineup ?

4. is the HD4-31 sensor the same as the previous model as it is advertised with 1600 iso? is this back capable of this or has it been engineered as a marketing tool ?

Thanks for taking pity on a newbie with stupid questions

Tim

1) I went from H3D31 to H4D50 : true focus is outstanding, as focusing is difficult in MF
2) I've not experienced myself the 40, but the 31 is excellent as long as you have not to get higher ISO, so 40 has more pixel and better ISO capabilities.
4) 31 is difficult to use above 400 iso, that's my point of view

 

[tim driver]

Jerome thanks - for your answers helping me get things straight in my head

As you have shot on HD3 and HD4 and with full and crop sensors

would you choose a HD3ii-39 or a HD4-31 if you had to make the choice?

Would welcome anyones opinions on this

Tim

 

[Professional]

I went from H3DII-39 to H4D-60, the true focus and higher ISO enhanced are the big improvements, the LCD look like a bit slightly better but not so huge difference, i know that H4D-60 is expensive, but if i have a choice i will go with H4D-40 or H4D-31, i may like to have minimum 39mp but on many websites people showing that they doing amazing with any mp camera or let's be more specific and say they do wonders with any MF camera.

 

[jerome]

Jerome thanks - for your answers helping me get things straight in my head

As you have shot on HD3 and HD4 and with full and crop sensors

would you choose a HD3ii-39 or a HD4-31 if you had to make the choice?

Would welcome anyones opinions on this

Tim

It depends of what you want to do : landscape (big sensor, low iso ok, tripod so true focus is not so mandatory even if very useful), studio ou wedding.

I do landscape and I appreciate big sensor and and true focus. I'm not happy because the H4D50 was told by Hassy guy to be able to do long exposure, and that's not true (yet !). 30 seconds only, but on the H4D40, you have longer exposure.

 

[tim driver]

Its my intention to try and start doing a lot of wedding work with it where I can, Ironically Marc and Brendan seem to be two of the early adopters -- but I really cant see why its hard - I used to work all day at iso 160 and 400 as a maximum with film - I'm really surprised more pros are not going this route.

 

[symbolphoto]

Its my intention to try and start doing a lot of wedding work with it where I can, Ironically Marc and Brendan seem to be two of the early adopters -- but I really cant see why its hard - I used to work all day at iso 160 and 400 as a maximum with film - I'm really surprised more pros are not going this route.

I suggest you rent one and try it out at a wedding. I'd love to shoot it during the ceremony and such, it's just not the best tool (In my opinion) for that.

Portraits and in-between ceremony and reception? Absolutely. Anything not critical for speed it works fantastically.