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The P45+ and DR. And noise. And...

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree let's face it on the technical part we only have two brands of Sensors, Kodak and Dalsa and maybe very fine differences between them but as Thierry laid out very nicely you have to look at the other end of this when making these buy decisions. Honestly not sure you can go completely wrong but certain parts stick out also like software on the image side of things but than warranty and service and support stuff play the other big role. The bottom line in my thinking look at all the parts of the puzzle and than see what works for you the best. I have said that at least 100 times or more on any system. Buy a system not a part
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thanks been saying that for years but only by mistakes does one realize you have to think like that. I bought more stuff than i can count and made some dumb mistakes along the way and i think many have also but thinking system is one way to stay out of some trouble. You just can't buy a MF back and not think what you need to bolt to it for example
 

David K

Workshop Member
It would be interesting, to me at least, to see what different priorities we place on the many factors that go into a choice of back. I'd put high ISO performance near the bottom of my list.. nice to have but not an important feature for me. Software and workflow is up near the top of my list and I'm not even a pro. I'd agree with others that the IQ is pretty much a given for all the major brands. And let's not forget price, not only for the back but for the glass you will need to shoot with.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
David, that would be a good topic on it's own and of benefit to any potential buyer -- why don't you start a new thread on it?
 

BradleyGibson

New member
Up until a couple of weeks ago I owned both a Phase One P45+ (and previously a Phase One P45) along with a Sinar eMotion75 LV (upgrade to Generation II is in the pipeline). I now own only the Sinar as I finish moving to the Hy6.

I can tell you from direct personal experience that David has hit the nail on the head when he refers to the priorities we place on the many factors that go into the choice of back. This is everything.

In my experience, if you want ultra-clean low-ISO files, the Phase does a better job. If you want deep shadow detail the Sinar does a better job. If you want the highest possible resolution, the Phase does a better job. If you want superior high ISO performance, the Sinar does a better job. I could go on...

In some cases, it is possible to change the rules and improve one back's performance significantly with extra work and post-processing. In many cases, it isn't.

The point to take away is which are the things you care about most in your image files, workflow or even handling of the back while shooting? Do you want these attributes "out of the box", or are you willing to do extra work to have them? I truly believe there is no "best" solution--if there were, we'd all have found it by now.

Once I get my Gen.II Sinar back, I'll look into posting some head-to-head comparisons of the P45+ and eMo75LV backs, using exactly the same glass, lighting conditions etc. if folks are interested. Please be patient, though--schedule is getting a bit crowded.

Kind regards,
Brad
 

David K

Workshop Member
Billy,

Here's a quick test shot I took yesterday just to make sure the lens was working properly. Nothing special, but I do think it shows the color rendering that Son referred to. Very smooth and creamy for lack of better vocabulary. I'll be happy to post some others when I get an opportunity.
 
S

Samuel Axelsson

Guest
Here's a crop... Hey Peter, it does seem as if we take a lot of foliage test shots :)
David, I think that shot is oversharpened. Look at the black halo around the leaves. :)
Is this ISO 800?
 

David K

Workshop Member
David, I think that shot is oversharpened. Look at the black halo around the leaves. :)
Is this ISO 800?
This is at ISO 100 and, as mentioned, simply a test shot. I think I did a touch of levels and curves but no sharpening whatsoever. At least not intentionally.
The RAW files were converted with Brumbaer which I'm told has no sharpening applied whatsoever.
 
P

Panopeeper

Guest
David,

Samuel is right with the halos. Brumbauer converts the raw file only in DNG, not in TIFF or JPEG, or am I wrong?

Thus you must have converted the DNG in JPEG by something else, and that product must have carrier out the sharpening.
 

BJNY

Member
I think Samuel is just kidding you guys.
The leaves themselves have a white edging.

David K, thanks for posting the image.
Does the 55mm PC snap into focus?
 

David K

Workshop Member
Thanks Billy... I thought I was going nuts there for a moment (just noticed Samuel's smiley face but missed it at first). Yes, the 55 PC snaps into focus, very easy to see in the WLF and very precisely captured. Gabor, these were converted in CS3 from DNG to TIFF, then to web-sized JPEG via Jack's action. I applied no sharpening and Jack's action does not appear to do so either.
 

Greg Seitz

New member
Just as a point of reference here's a similar scene at ISO 800 from a stitched DSLR photo processed in C1.

Full scene followed by the 100% crop at ISO 800.
 
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Samuel Axelsson

Guest
Guys I wasn't kidding.
If you look carefully you'll see a black line outside the white one, very thin but it's there. I see it in both of my monitors. Maybe isn't sharpening but it must be some kind of artifact.
I'm referring to the 100% crop.

The crop got my attention because the edges are very defined but there's no very fine detail in the leave's surface.
About the ISO, I asked if it was 800 because it looks a bit noisy. That's why I thought it could be the sharpening.

Maybe I'm looking too close....
 

David K

Workshop Member
I propose that all future lens tests use scantily clad models. I've had enough flora and fauna shots to last for a while :)
 

David K

Workshop Member
Guys I wasn't kidding.
If you look carefully you'll see a black line outside the white one, very thin but it's there. I see it in both of my monitors. Maybe isn't sharpening but it must be some kind of artifact.
I'm referring to the 100% crop.

The crop got my attention because the edges are very defined but there's no very fine detail in the leave's surface.
About the ISO, I asked if it was 800 because it looks a bit noisy. That's why I thought it could be the sharpening.

Maybe I'm looking too close....
Samuel,
It's not there in the original, perhaps a jpeg artifact from resizing... I'm uploading the DNG to Yousendit.com right now and will provide a link if you're interested in viewing it.
 
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