S2 Impressions: A year later.

[David Schneider]

Chances are I'll never own an S2 so I'm a casual observer at best.

I just find it interesting that Leica essentially made what to me is a digital Pentax 67 type camera form (a body styled after 35mm cameras, but on steriods) when it went digital mf and Pentax made a Hasselblad type camera when it went finally came out with it's latest digital mf camera even though it had experience making both types of bodies.

Each designed for a slightly different market with a different set of features and methods of operation.

 

[Mark Gowin]

Marc, I can't imagine what happened to cause your shutter button to stick twice. I used my S2 out in the cold (20 - 24°F) and snow for a few hours today with no operational problems. Perhaps there was a setting or mode you were in where the camera wasn't ready to shoot. For example, if it is in sleep mode, it takes one shutter press to wake it up and another to shoot. It is possible to get it to shoot from sleep mode with a loooong shutter press (at least on the previous firmware), but it is such a long press that you feel like something is wrong.

Johnny, I was very careful to protect the the camera I used to take the photo of the S2, but the only care I took with the S2 is to try and keep the front lens element pointed away from the blowing snow where possible. I only did that so I wouldn't have to clean the lens too frequently. The lens can handle it, I can't. I have seen a demo where a glass of water was poured onto the front lens element just to show it's weather sealing.

 

[Mark Gowin]

Ach mein lieber Gott was ist los mit dir :bugeyes:

I know the S2 is weather proof but still seeing snow and water condensation on her makes me want to grab my umbrella schnell and some one get me a vodka shot pronto before I pass out

:ROTFL: I didn't give it a second thought. Maybe I should have my head examined. By the way, impressive stuff on your website.

 

[David Klepacki]

Quick Update:

I mentioned this on my other "Art" thread but it bears repeating:

I shot today in the bitter cold outside and in low light indoors.

Despite some reports of consistent back-focus on all lenses (body related), my shots were almost all fine even when pixel peeping. However, I did note that I tend to fill the AF circle with the subject.

The top LLC was perfectly readable in bright outdoor lighting.

I did not detect Purple fringing using the 35 and 70 even inside a dark church with bright windows and very contrasty interior sections, but I'm sure it is quite possible since others say it is.

The AF was about the same speed as my H4D/40 when shooting in lower light. I am used to this and select the target accordingly.

Properly exposed (and not cheated), ISO 1250 looked pretty good.

Two issue to resolve yet:

The shutter button stuck twice when shooting outdoors in the cold ... it stopped me in my tracks. Don't know why it stuck.

I tried the SF58 in case I need fill flash, and the TTL setting wouldn't work. TTL/HSS, A, and Manual did work. Yes, I made sure the shutter speed was with-in sync, and the TTL of the flash works mounted on my M9. Probable my error, but I haven't figured it out yet.

-Marc

Marc,

This is great news. If the S2 critically focuses to your satisfaction as compared to the latest Hasselblad H4D cameras, then that tells me that the Hasselblad Ultrafocus and True Focus technologies are not really necessary, at least for your shooting style.

So, if your S2 does not have any AF, purple fringing or noise problems, I would recommend keeping it rather than upgrading your Hasselblad H4D, since the H4D now has much less to offer you in your actual day-to-day usage.

David

 

[tjv]

Honestly, the S2 seems for me to be an almost perfect camera. I'm not talking about price of entry now, just the extra features like weather sealing, better LCD, form factor and duel card slots. If only they had a lens in between the 35mm and 70mm. I'd prefer a 50mm and 35mm equivalent as my primary lenses. Perhaps the soon expected zoom will be a winner. Ah, if only I had the cash in hand!

 

[KurtKamka]

Interesting note on your shutter freeze, Marc. Like Mark, I can report no issues with the camera in cold weather ... and I've been using it for hours at a time in temperatures from 10 - 30 degrees fahrenheit over the past several weeks. Battery time in the cold has been fantastic ... also I'm very pleased with how well the camera fits in my hands with and without gloves in very cold weather.

 

[David K]

Still getting to know my kit and, contrary to my long standing policy, started to RTFM On my Nikon D3s there's a setting that you select that allows the shutter to fire even if the subject is not in focus... which is the one I use. I think I read in the manual that the S2 has the same option but I'll have to double check. If so this might account for getting no response with a press of the shutter. Haven't run into this issue myself... yet. Still good news to hear that it's performing to Marc's high standards. If it gets his Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval I may buy some Leica stock... at least I would if it were publicly held.

 

[fotografz]

Marc,

This is great news. If the S2 critically focuses to your satisfaction as compared to the latest Hasselblad H4D cameras, then that tells me that the Hasselblad Ultrafocus and True Focus technologies are not really necessary, at least for your shooting style.

So, if your S2 does not have any AF, purple fringing or noise problems, I would recommend keeping it rather than upgrading your Hasselblad H4D, since the H4D now has much less to offer you in your actual day-to-day usage.

David

Enthusiasm welcome David ... but I didn't quite say that.

The S2 focused in lowish light at about the same speed as my H4D/40 would. That isn't the same as True Focus with APL.

The True Focus/Ultra Focus feature is where the camera makes nano adjustments when stopped down to optimize for that specific f/stop.

True Focus with Absolute Position Lock is where the camera adjusts for off-center subject matter focussed with the center AF spot, and when recomposed, adjusts the AF to account for the inevitable loss of critical focus.

When shooting people in a candid style I do use TF, but not all the time. When shooting portraits I use it almost all the time to keep the eyes in focus regardless of composition. I do not have to place the head in the center of the frame when shooting a waist up portrait with the 100/2.2 @ 2.2.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Marc, I can't imagine what happened to cause your shutter button to stick twice. I used my S2 out in the cold (20 - 24°F) and snow for a few hours today with no operational problems. Perhaps there was a setting or mode you were in where the camera wasn't ready to shoot. For example, if it is in sleep mode, it takes one shutter press to wake it up and another to shoot. It is possible to get it to shoot from sleep mode with a loooong shutter press (at least on the previous firmware), but it is such a long press that you feel like something is wrong.

Johnny, I was very careful to protect the the camera I used to take the photo of the S2, but the only care I took with the S2 is to try and keep the front lens element pointed away from the blowing snow where possible. I only did that so I wouldn't have to clean the lens too frequently. The lens can handle it, I can't. I have seen a demo where a glass of water was poured onto the front lens element just to show it's weather sealing.

I will double check that Mark. Thanks for posting.

To be clear, when I say stuck I mean it was stuck as in unresponsive ... there was no play or movement of the shutter button at all when pressed ... like in the old days when you switched a shutter release collar to the locked position so you couldn't accidentally fire the camera.

Investigations continue.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

You mean manual adjustement after the S2 has made his AF decision... - yes...

No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.

 

[xpixel]

No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.

No - no possible... there is no screwdriver slot...

 

[ptomsu]

No - no possible... there is no screwdriver slot...

I assume you are not joking

In a D700 or D3X you can fine adjust the focus of different lenses via the internal menu - so this stores an offset value for w number of lenses if you want individually and then applies this offset for the specific lens.

In case the 35 on the S2 would have some backfocus, then you could try to find out the amount via some test shots and then store it in camera for this specific lens. And you could do so individually for all lenses if necessary.

I wonder if this feature is available in the S2. Or could become available via a FW upgrade?

 

[fotografz]

No - I meant that yiou can calibrate your lenses if necessary - like in some other DSLRs.

In this case it appears that the S2 lenses are calibrated to the body... or at least to tolerances are with-in spec. ... which can be confirmed by manually focusing the S2 lenses.

That isn't the issue with the S2 AF ... at least as speculatively noted by some testers. It seems the AF area is perhaps to large and it can grab something else in the background ... or some such issue.

So, allegedly, even if the body and lenses are in tight agreement ... there can still be a loss of critical focus ... specifically back focus.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

In this case it appears that the S2 lenses are calibrated to the body... or at least to tolerances are with-in spec. ... which can be confirmed by manually focusing the S2 lenses.

That isn't the issue with the S2 AF ... at least as speculatively noted by some testers. It seems the AF area is perhaps to large and it can grab something else in the background ... or some such issue.

So, allegedly, even if the body and lenses are in tight agreement ... there can still be a loss of critical focus ... specifically back focus.

-Marc

Thanks, I got it now!

Now is the H4D doing this better or is the focus area also as big that it can result in backfocus?

 

[fotografz]

Thanks, I got it now!

Now is the H4D doing this better or is the focus area also as big that it can result in backfocus?

No backfocus with the H4D/40 in my experience so far (or with the H3D-II/39 and H3D-II/31 before it). Never gave it a thought, or a single second of worry.

But to be perfectly honest, I haven't rigorously tested for it either. Since it hasn't been the subject of a bunch of user complaints on the internet there was no reason to be on alert.

All the AF pics I've been shooting with the H4D/40 over the past year are razor sharp at the point of focus chosen. The only focusing issue I've had has been with the HTS/1.5 which is hard to focus by eye with severe tilt applied. Doable but difficult.

-Marc

 

[rem]

I had my H4D-40 now for almost 3 Months (!) in Sweden/Denmark. The reason was back focus. In a portrait at f2.8, distance ca. 1meter the difference was nearly 7-10mm. Now, after this months of waiting, it seems to be ok, but I had not yet the time/mood to check it exactly. lg, remo

 

[ptomsu]

No backfocus with the H4D/40 in my experience so far (or with the H3D-II/39 and H3D-II/31 before it). Never gave it a thought, or a single second of worry.

But to be perfectly honest, I haven't rigorously tested for it either. Since it hasn't been the subject of a bunch of user complaints on the internet there was no reason to be on alert.

All the AF pics I've been shooting with the H4D/40 over the past year are razor sharp at the point of focus chosen. The only focusing issue I've had has been with the HTS/1.5 which is hard to focus by eye with severe tilt applied. Doable but difficult.

-Marc

Well, then this also speaks for keeping the H4D40 - or upgrading to the H4D60 - right?

I should make a ice/snow picture of my H3D39 gear, just to prove it does as well as the S2

 

[fotografz]

Well, then this also speaks for keeping the H4D40 - or upgrading to the H4D60 - right?

I should make a ice/snow picture of my H3D39 gear, just to prove it does as well as the S2

Well I understand some people's desire for the weather proofing feature, but to be honest, I've not let weather stop me with any camera including the Hs to no ill effect ... touch wood :ROTFL:

I live in Michigan, USA ... who's moto is "Winter Wonder Land" ... lots of snow and big lakes all over the place.

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

Well I understand some people's desire for the weather proofing feature, but to be honest, I've not let weather stop me with any camera including the Hs to no ill effect ... touch wood :ROTFL:

I live in Michigan, USA ... who's moto is "Winter Wonder Land" ... lots of snow and big lakes all over the place.

-Marc

I fully agree! I live in Austria and we usually have also some weeks of cold winter in the part of Austria where I live. I used the H3D39 last year very intensive for long time in winter and snowy/icy conditions - temperatures down at -20Celsius and I never had an issue - except that batteries getting empty sooner. But that should be the same for all cameras.

To bring it to the point - I am pretty sure the best next step for owners of H equipment is for sure an upgrade to another H compared to changing the system. The beauty of the S2 is here never the less, smaller, looking nice, weather sealing etc. It is obviously not better WRT AF speed and accuracy, IQ, etc. and it is far away when you compare the lens lineup.

Hard decision I think I will stay out of this for a while (maybe better another year) and then see what the market offers and what Leica offers :thumbs:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Bottom line for Marc here and i hate to even put my nose in this but from one Pro to another Pro. It comes down to Ergo's vs a proven system you are already shooting and have every lens. What are you really buying into here is the end of day question. You don't have to answer that just consider it. For me as a Pro it is not ready for me to consider a switch. But that is me. I'm content waiting for Phases new announcements to see if they fit me or just merrily continue with what I have and happy to shoot the Sony for that type of work. I'm in a no stress mode what is with better greener pastures. I am really happy with that alone. My decision if there is one on Leica is i would like to see what takes place next.