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S2 Impressions: A year later.

fotografz

Well-known member
Per the S2 manual page 37 for AFs focus mode - "Before the focus is set, the shutter cannot be released even by pressing the shutter release button all the way down." So if you were using AFs focus mode, then the camera may have been behaving exactly as designed. The shutter will not fire until focus is locked.

In AFc mode you can release the shutter at any time even if none of the subject is in focus.

Just for the heck of it, I tested both AFs and AFc modes on my S2 to see how it behaves.

AFs and shutter button - I manually de-focused the lens and quickly pressed the shutter button all the way down. The shutter did not release immediately. There was considerable delay before the shutter fired. It was like the camera wanted to fire, but realized the image was not in focus, then it focused and fired. I say it like this because there was a delay from pressing the button fully and autofocus starting. In AFs, if you press the shutter button part-way the autofocus locks, then you press the button further to release the shutter. If you bypass the half (third) press, then it seems to take longer to get the shutter to fire.

AFc and shutter button - I manually de-focused the lens and quickly pressed the shutter button all the way down. The shutter immediately fired and I got an out of focus image. The proper method is similar to AFs except in AFc the focus is continuously adjusted as long as the button is in mid position.

I use the MF focus mode which lets me assign AFc focus mode to the rear thumb button. I find it much easier to control autofocus using the rear button. In my opinion it is tricky to control the autofocus using the shutter release button because there are three pressure points in the button. More importantly I prefer to have AF lock and AE lock on separate buttons. In my set up, I have AF/AF lock on the rear button and AE/AE lock on the shutter button.



This is a major wtf and one I discovered early on. For whatever reason (perhaps file size), the S2 will not simultaneously write DNG files to both CF and SD cards. Currently, the only time the S2 will write files to both cards simultaneously is when DNG+jpeg is selected. The DNGs will write to the CF card and JPEGs will write to the SD card.

In my opinion this is a major lapse in Leica's S2 firmware design and one that I expected to have been corrected by now. The benefit of having dual card slots is so that back-up files can be written to a separate card. It's not possible in the S2 unless you count a JPEG as a backup. Surely, this will be corrected soon now that compressed DNGs are available.
Thanks for the tutorial on AF Mark ;) That is no different from any AF camera when set to AFs ... won't shoot until focus is acquired. When I say one smooth push of the shutter button, it means the previous shot was already in focus and the AF has little to do to re-achieve focus again ... trust me, that isn't it. The camera locked up so no AF could be performed at all ... as in no play in the shutter button what-so-ever. It persisted even after the camera was shut off, and the battery removed and reinstalled. Didn't have time to go through a laundry list of other attempts to unlock the camera ... I was shooting.

If it isn't the battery, then it's a defective camera since it's done it with different lenses.

I hope you are correct that new firmware will allow dual RAW files be parallel saved as insurance against card failure or user error down-loading ... that is one of the more important features of this camera compared to Phase and Hassey. But, saving jpgs is useless IMO ... although for the time being would be better than nothing I guess.

-Marc
 

KurtKamka

Subscriber Member
At the beach on Lake Michigan this afternoon for the annual polar bear plunge. Two hours outside in 15 degree fahrenheit weather with 35mph winds. Battery on the S2 still at full charge. Frozen fingers, but not crazy enough to jump in the lake.





 

fotografz

Well-known member
At the beach on Lake Michigan this afternoon for the annual polar bear plunge. Two hours outside in 15 degree fahrenheit weather with 35mph winds. Battery on the S2 still at full charge. Frozen fingers, but not crazy enough to jump in the lake.





This is an important post for me because it confirms that it isn't some odd cold weather safeguard or something related to sub-freezing temps that locked up the camera.

I'm still trying to figure out the issue ... now more out of curiosity than as a purchase consideration.

Thanks Kurt,

-Marc

P.S., what a bunch of nut jobs ... brrrrrrr.
 

GMB

Active member
There beyond nuts. Didn't they ever hear of shrinkage. :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::
:ROTFL: So are the guys on this forum--only they experience shrinkage of a different sort: bank account. I know what I prefer :ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

Happy New Year to all of you! May things grown not shrink!
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, I'm $40K plump as of today :D

Last ditch effort to see if the lock-up was the battery. Brand new battery, charged to 100%, 24º outside, took 3 shots and it locked up tight.

Waited, turned off the camera, removed battery, but this time changed lenses to the 180 ... shot for about 6 shots to lock-up. Shut down camera, waited, turned on camera and it started AF on its own then fired and locked up again.

Bye, Bye.:salute:

-Marc
 

peterv

New member
Marc,
sorry your S2 adventure has to end this way. IMO you did everything that could reasonably be expected from a working photographer with lots of responsibilities to his customers and his own wallet. Many thanks for so openly sharing your experiences of the last two weeks.

Too bad for the S2 that the story in this case evolved like it did because I think a more positive outcome would very likely have helped the system forward. Last year I've found links to your Photo.net wedding-A900 article on various European photo sites and fora and people speak very highly of your insight. I think that ever since you published this article quite a few people have decided to go for the Sony. I'm sure that if the S2 had worked for you, this could have had a simular positive effect for the Leica.
Anyway, thanks again for sharing and best wishes for you and all readers for 2011.
 

arashm

Member
Well, I'm $40K plump as of today :D

Last ditch effort to see if the lock-up was the battery. Brand new battery, charged to 100%, 24º outside, took 3 shots and it locked up tight.

Waited, turned off the camera, removed battery, but this time changed lenses to the 180 ... shot for about 6 shots to lock-up. Shut down camera, waited, turned on camera and it started AF on its own then fired and locked up again.

Bye, Bye.:salute:

-Marc
Marc
I see the Bye Bye at the end, but surly there is something very wrong with this body, maybe 3rd time is the charm?
Rather unbelievable though
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
am
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well, I'm $40K plump as of today :D

Last ditch effort to see if the lock-up was the battery. Brand new battery, charged to 100%, 24º outside, took 3 shots and it locked up tight.

Waited, turned off the camera, removed battery, but this time changed lenses to the 180 ... shot for about 6 shots to lock-up. Shut down camera, waited, turned on camera and it started AF on its own then fired and locked up again.

Bye, Bye.:salute:

-Marc
Sad. Brand new cam too. No further comments needed from me.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I think that ever since you published this article quite a few people have decided to go for the Sony. I'm sure that if the S2 had worked for you, this could have had a simular positive effect for the Leica.
So true,

I have been hoping that magic might have found a place for the S2 with new firmware and upgrades to the system....while I am not a professional photographer I am very suspect of poor QC for products that I use in any sphere. Especially when the entry is so high.

I would love for the S2 to have been a star as its form is compelling...

As for now I am holding on to my H3D II 39 waiting to see how the H4D 60 performs...Woody Campbell's posts are enticing.

Marc, the difficulty is that you have unlimited choices...finding the right mix takes an honest assessment of need and desire. Whether Dalsa at 60 or 50 MS seems to be the question. I assume that your 39 MS will provide adequate resolution for the obligate professional shots allowing you freedom to explore personal and artistic venues with the new 60.

Thanks for allowing us to ride along while you make this decision.

Regards,

Bob
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I need to clarify something.

This is a TERRIFIC camera ... a one of a kind.

There are a number of professional shooters that have had no issues like lock up and all that. That is one reason I looked at it again.

The other reason was that the image qualities I expected from Leica were starting to shine through. That is enticing in its own right.

However, sometimes luck just doesn't go your way ... as I said earlier ... it happens. One needs to recognize a streak of bad luck and back off, (Heck, maybe I was fortunate that the H4D/60 didn't get delivered last week :))

If you want one of your cameras to fail just send it to me while this cloud is over my head :ROTFL:

And people ask me why I have so many cameras ...

IMO, anyone that likes this camera, feels it fits their specific needs more than anything else, and has a good dealer should go for it ... I think I sucked up
all the bad luck for awhile so it should be smooth sailing ... :thumbup:

-Marc
 

ggriswold

New member
I have been following this S2 thread and don't recall that at any point have you tried different memory cards... not sure that this was mentioned. Different maker, different speed class. Could be two bad cards, counterfeit cards? Camera should display some kind of memory error regardless.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I must have missed something?

Bob
Read the whole thread Bob ... I was inches from paying for it ... then it locked up on me ... and repeatedly did so.

It handles like a dream, and the lenses are great. I suggested a few tweaks I like to see.

I've had bad luck before ... and will again. I just know when to back off.

Best wishes to those with working S2s ... it's a lot of fun to shoot with.

Just not for me right now.

-Marc
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have been following this S2 thread and don't recall that at any point have you tried different memory cards... not sure that this was mentioned. Different maker, different speed class. Could be two bad cards, counterfeit cards? Camera should display some kind of memory error regardless.
Thanks for the idea, but I did use different cards ... and also did so earlier today. Not different brands ... they were all Sandisk Extreme IV 4, 8 and 16 gig.

None of them are counterfeit ... all from reputable seller B&H, and all worked fine in the first S2 which unfortunately was old stock and had a cracked sensor glass.

Let Leica figure it out now, holiday is over and I have to get back to work :)

-Marc
 

dfarkas

Workshop Member
Read the whole thread Bob ... I was inches from paying for it ... then it locked up on me ... and repeatedly did so.

It handles like a dream, and the lenses are great. I suggested a few tweaks I like to see.

I've had bad luck before ... and will again. I just know when to back off.

Best wishes to those with working S2s ... it's a lot of fun to shoot with.

Just not for me right now.

-Marc
Marc,

I think it is worth mentioning that an S2P carries a Platinum Service Package and that as such, anything that goes wrong with the camera in the first 90 days is taken care of with a new unit hot-swap.

There is most certainly something very wrong with the camera that you received, no doubt, but it is an anomaly, not the norm. As a dealer that specializes in the S2 and as a user that has used the S2 for a full year, I can say with confidence that your problem is a unique one in my experience. Never have I seen a body just stop working after 3 shots, and repeatedly at that. I have seen cracked sensors, as I explained previously, as this was a known supplier issue that was resolved months ago. Either your first camera was a demo model that no one noticed the sensor crack on (pretty tough to miss it) or it was sitting on a shelf for a few months unopened.

Just curious, but what is the harm in getting a replacement under warranty and testing a 100% functioning body? Even if the camera is to be returned to a dealer, they will swap it out for a new one anyway.

I'm not questioning your decision to pass on the camera. That's your personal choice. I just think you might as well test a properly functioning S2 indicative of what owners are actually using in the field before drawing a final conclusion.

David
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Marc,

I think it is worth mentioning that an S2P carries a Platinum Service Package and that as such, anything that goes wrong with the camera in the first 90 days is taken care of with a new unit .

David
90 days for "Platinum Service"? That's a joke. The Hasselblad and Phase One extended hot swap warranties are three years. If Leica really believes in the S2 and wants to develop a market for it with photographers that aren't going to use it as the equivalent of a Louis Vuitton handbag, they should offer a full three year hot swap at no extra charge.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I hate to mention this, but all this discussion reminds me so much on what was discussed already 3 years ago when Leica first started talking about a Pro DSLR system. Many rose the issue that a real Pro system has to have a perfect protection and repair plan as well as perfect support and follow up times.

Man - we all were hammered when mentioning this, especially in LUF.

Now some 3 years later and the S2 already shipping longer that 1 year we still have similar issues and discussions.

Can it be really so hard to get things right and sorted out ??????
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Marc,

I think it is worth mentioning that an S2P carries a Platinum Service Package and that as such, anything that goes wrong with the camera in the first 90 days is taken care of with a new unit hot-swap.

There is most certainly something very wrong with the camera that you received, no doubt, but it is an anomaly, not the norm. As a dealer that specializes in the S2 and as a user that has used the S2 for a full year, I can say with confidence that your problem is a unique one in my experience. Never have I seen a body just stop working after 3 shots, and repeatedly at that. I have seen cracked sensors, as I explained previously, as this was a known supplier issue that was resolved months ago. Either your first camera was a demo model that no one noticed the sensor crack on (pretty tough to miss it) or it was sitting on a shelf for a few months unopened.

Just curious, but what is the harm in getting a replacement under warranty and testing a 100% functioning body? Even if the camera is to be returned to a dealer, they will swap it out for a new one anyway.

I'm not questioning your decision to pass on the camera. That's your personal choice. I just think you might as well test a properly functioning S2 indicative of what owners are actually using in the field before drawing a final conclusion.

David
I agree David ... I also suspect it is an anomaly and not necessarily the norm, (although I have no empirical data to prove this one way or the other). Thus the repeated reference to bad luck.

However, I did enough research off-forum, as well as on various other forums, to give it the benefit of doubt ... as in, I seriously doubt it is wide-spread.

As to "final conclusions," I've already indicated it's a fine camera ... handling is all I thought it would be, and the files are now right up there with my Leica expectations. That, and the changing nature of my work, made revisiting the S2 a worth-while, albeit expensive, venture.

I was able to shoot enough test images to confirm my expectations ... all, save one ... reliability on the job. The anomaly spoiled that last acid test, and it was the most important one.

You are a fine ambassador for Leica and seem to have their ear. Perhaps they should tone down references to perfection? They need to truly understand what it is like to be on the line and standing there with a dead camera. It is an experience that stuns you, and can abruptly interrupt your flow and emotional connection to the creative task at hand ... if only momentarily.

My little "on the job test" was not all that critical ... I'd never risk something really important to new kit. I didn't switch over from Nikon to Sony until the A900 proved itself repeatedly under fire for almost a year. Always the Nikon was slung over my shoulder as I shot with the Sony.

This is a professional camera. Whether it is in the hands of a professional or not ... that should be the standards realized. Not just mechanically or logically ... nor nostalgically based on history. It is far more emotional than Leica may realize. This is our work, what we do ... some for enjoyment, some for a deeply creative personal expression, and some for making a living ... or all of the above.

As testimony of this, look at all the people who make financial sacrifices on the altar of photography ... because it is paramount in their lives. I drive a 6 year old car, and forego many other luxuries, and even am willing to risk some retirement funds because THIS IS WHAT I DO. As you readily know, I am not alone in this.

All makers of high-end photographic equipment should heed this and take it to heart ... perhaps most of all the brand Leica, and all its people.

-Marc
 
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