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I'm drinking the Pentax 645D Kool aid

D&A

Well-known member
Wow I just woke up to a firestorm.
Dave, the first image was take with the 75mm fa, images two and three were both taken with 120mm "a" manual focus, that's why there is no exif info on those images, only fa lens show up in exif.

Rjones, sounds like you tested a lot of the fa lens, my question thoughts try testing them for landscape work, shooting on a tripod, mlu f11 or so and infinity or close to infinity focus and then tell me about how the corners look. The image you posted was shot almost wide open portrait so the edges don't matter, the only way to post images so they display correctly on this site is to use the(img) http link to your img (/img) I found the same problem you did using attach image does something to the color.
Check with Jack he can explain better.

What scares me about adaptors is then I'm stuck with Mf the 645d does not offer a split prism focusing screen so to me focusing would very difficult.

I checked my fa lenses yesterday with my lens align pro to check for front / back focus and they were all very close, so I know my af is working well

I just find this whole thing interesting when pentax finally released the 645d last year in japan, they were marketing the camera as a good choice for landscape shooters.
I wonder what lenses they were using? Diglloyd I think tested 2 or 3 copies of the 55mm swd, and although the close up shots looked really good he told me he thought it was not a good performer when shot at infinity, soft corners.

Now what?

Even if I and the money for the S2, I really didn't want another 3:2 camera I already have an M9 and a d3s.

Steven
Hi Steven

My posted thoughts regarding performance of the legacy lenses both MF and older FA ones) was based on landscape use..ie: at or near infinity setting, 645D on a tripod, mirror lock-up on some of the shots and at different apertures...and examining across the frame.

Pentax was marketing the camera as a landscape camera, initially from the standpoint of it being weatherproofed..not specifically on the performance of existing lenses for landscape work.

That new 55mm along with the FA35mm has been hard to get a handle on regarding performance with the 645D.
I had been following Diglloyd initially in his testing of the 645D but not where he's at presently.

"Addition"---> Steve, I realize only the FA lenses will pass along the exif data :) Thanks for the info on images #2 &3.

Steven, not sure if you saw the e-mail I sent you last night?

Thanks.

Dave (D&A)
 

kuau

Workshop Member
Terry,
Yep spoke to the two so called 645d tech guys at pentax usa and they said its hit or miss with all the fa lens some copies work well and some don't of the same lens. Really no differrent then nikon or canon but the problem is since all these lens are no longer being made, its not like I can call b&h and order a lens and if I know it to be a good performer and the copy they send me is bad I can send it back for another one.

Since I am living in park city utah now, it's been very cold here in the teens and below
Those waterfall shots I posted it was 9 degrees out. Yeah would love a tech camera with a sliding back, i don't know if phase or leaf backs will even work in those conditions and when it's that cold forget about taking off your gloves. I was freezing yet... The 645d performed flawlessly. I had it out another day and my car temp said -2 and still 645d worked no problem. Oh well nothing is perfect, well maybe my M9 :) what a great system for landscape IMHO for prints up to 16x24 and you don't mind 3:2 format

Steven
 

D&A

Well-known member
Terry,
Yep spoke to the two so called 645d tech guys at pentax usa and they said its hit or miss with all the fa lens some copies work well and some don't of the same lens. Really no differrent then nikon or canon but the problem is since all these lens are no longer being made, its not like I can call b&h and order a lens and if I know it to be a good performer and the copy they send me is bad I can send it back for another one.

Since I am living in park city utah now, it's been very cold here in the teens and below
Those waterfall shots I posted it was 9 degrees out. Yeah would love a tech camera with a sliding back, i don't know if phase or leaf backs will even work in those conditions and when it's that cold forget about taking off your gloves. I was freezing yet... The 645d performed flawlessly. I had it out another day and my car temp said -2 and still 645d worked no problem. Oh well nothing is perfect, well maybe my M9 :) what a great system for landscape IMHO for prints up to 16x24 and you don't mind 3:2 format

Steven
Steven...as I said in my post above..."It's a crap shoot" at this point when it comes to 645 lenses and the 645D..at least for certain applications. Not only specific model of lenses but individual samples. This was even so with Pentax lenses on their 35mm DSLR's...Most all the AF ones and a great many MF of them included. Nikon has the best consistanty in the world with their high speced lenses, if compared to Pentax, at least in this regard. Thats not taking anything away with the potential of the system..just that lenses can make or break a system like this and so unfortunately I believe it will take some time to sort this all out, especially for certain applications.

As for the M9 and certain prints up to 16x24...completely agree and depending on subject matter (not generally landscapes), even larger. I'm as picky as they come when it comes to large format printing and have to give credit wheres credit is due...the M9 system can really sing in this regard. For the 645D to reach its potential, the lens issues obviously have to be addressed.

Dave (D&A)
 
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David Schneider

New member
I make my living with studio photography and understand the great interest in Pentax 645D. It has some great features. I went with Hasselblad when I made the decision to go mfd in part because Pentax didn't have a line of new lenses to go with their new camera. It just didn't make much sense to me to buy into a system and then look around for used lenses until they get around to releasing lens to go with their new body.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Hi Marc. I bought the Fotodiox adapter for Hasselblad V lenses to Pentax 645 camera from Amazon. It seems well made and I've tried it a few times (using my 80mm CFE on the 645NII)...no problems.

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Hasselblad-Lens-Pentax/dp/B002JY4KME

Steven....while I certainly understand that you'd like to have autofocus ability for your 645D, my experience with the 645NII using manual focus lenses (P645, P67 and Hasselblad V) has been very good, thanks to the focus confirmation signal incorporated into the 645. It's an audible/visible signal which seems to work very well. I've heard that this feature is also built into the 645D....is that correct?

Gary
 

kuau

Workshop Member
David,
I would have stuck with my H3D-39, but the first day I took it out in sub freezing weather from my car, everything was all fogged up. No weather sealing on the back.
If I was a studio guy, for sure Hasselblad for me, and I knew I was taking a big risk with the 645D, and now paying for it.

Steven

I make my living with studio photography and understand the great interest in Pentax 645D. It has some great features. I went with Hasselblad when I made the decision to go mfd in part because Pentax didn't have a line of new lenses to go with their new camera. It just didn't make much sense to me to buy into a system and then look around for used lenses until they get around to releasing lens to go with their new body.
 

kuau

Workshop Member
Gary,
I was told by Lloyd over at Diglloyd, that the focus confirm light in the 645D is not to be counted on.
You see again,
Who do I believe, everyone has a different experience and story.
Very frustrating indeed.

Steven

ps. does this adaptor stop down the lens or you have to do it manually?

Hi Marc. I bought the Fotodiox adapter for Hasselblad V lenses to Pentax 645 camera from Amazon. It seems well made and I've tried it a few times (using my 80mm CFE on the 645NII)...no problems.

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Hasselblad-Lens-Pentax/dp/B002JY4KME

Steven....while I certainly understand that you'd like to have autofocus ability for your 645D, my experience with the 645NII using manual focus lenses (P645, P67 and Hasselblad V) has been very good, thanks to the focus confirmation signal incorporated into the 645. It's an audible/visible signal which seems to work very well. I've heard that this feature is also built into the 645D....is that correct?

Gary
 

David Schneider

New member
David,
I would have stuck with my H3D-39, but the first day I took it out in sub freezing weather from my car, everything was all fogged up. No weather sealing on the back. /QUOTE]
Off topic, but if car is warmer and you go outside to colder temps, fog up is normal regardless of kind or make of camera. At least that's been my experience.

Weather seals are better. Complete agreement, no argument from me. But I have had non-weather sealed cameras get soaked, and I mean soaked, in the rain and were fine. Biggest issue will be water rusting some wires of the camera's computer parts and frying the board. So I wouldn't hesitate taking my H3D2-39 out in cold or snow. (Well, only for something special otherwise I rather take the Canon 5dMK2 gear outside. lol)
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Gary,
I was told by Lloyd over at Diglloyd, that the focus confirm light in the 645D is not to be counted on.
That's unfortunate, because it does seems to work well on my 645NII....although I've only run about 6 rolls of film through the camera and haven't done any rigorous testing for critical focus subjects.

ps. does this adaptor stop down the lens or you have to do it manually?
If my memory is correct, it's manual stop down aperture. I can verify that when I get home this evening.....it's been more than a few months since I last used the 645 with the adapter and a Hasselblad lens.

Gary
 

rjones

New member
Re: Pentax 645D

Steven,

I mostly shoot landscape. I tested all the lenses on tripod, MU and wireless release. I tested brick walls at 5-7 meters and distance subjects at 2 km. Sharp corner to corner, at f5.6.

Admittedly, the image I posted was not flat field. I was simply showing what the 150/2.8 could do for those of us who shoot other subjects than distant landscapes. I like selective focus on occasion and the bokeh of Pentax lenses is usually quite nice. I plan on using the 645D for many subjects.

Since I've had many MF systems over the years, I seen lens variations. While my sample size is small, all of my Pentax lenses are just fine. I had much more variation with Mamiya 645 lenses. (In film days, the RZ system was consistently good.) I bought all of the lenses used off eBay except for the 300/5.6, which was NIB from stock in NYC.

I think those of us reading the forums have seen large variations even with Leica, especially if we buy used lenses. (And the 645D's method of correcting front/back focus is certainly easier than shipping lenses and camera off to Lecia for RF adjustments.) When we buy used lenses, as many of us are doing for the 645D, we'll source them from people who have abused the lenses. Without a history, some of the lenses may have even been rentals. So to maintain that all Pentax is a crap shoot is not truly fair based on evaluating mostly used products; it is more a reflection of the source, not the manufacturer. (Being pessimistic, all used buys can be said to be a bit of crap shoot, but maybe I've just been lucky.)

On another note, if any of you have a Pentax 67 (latest version) 55/4, you might check it out. It is superb and it is the WA I will use in that range. I briefly checked a 45/4 and is also looks very good, but not quite as well defined as the 55/4.

For anything longer than 55mm, the present Pentax 645 line up I think is really good. The FA75 is inexpensive, light and plentiful. And the 120 macro has same elements whether FA or A, so one gets the same results from either.

I have the Japanese literature for all of the lenses and have managed to get the schematics translated, so it anyone is interested I can post. But suffice it to say that the FA lenses, especially the 120, 150 and 200 have non-standard elements inside and I found all 3 to be really, really nice lenses. If you can't find the 150, get the FA200.

I'll try posting some distance shots with the WA lenses. The one thing I noticed with the FA35 was that there appeared to be field curvature from f3.5 to f5.6. I adjusted focus on the 645D body at f5.6 and this was still accurate for f8. However, at f3.5, despite the adjustment at f5.6, the lens back-focused. To me, no problem. I virtually never shoot WA lenses more open than f5.6, rather usually at f8. But, at f5.6, the image was evenly sharp from center to edge.
 

D&A

Well-known member
rjones, thanks for your post. When I mentioned "a crap shoot" with some of the Pentax lenses, I wasn't referring to just used lenses where the history of how it was handled was in question. Even NIB or NOS on identical lenses appeared to be different on the 645D and this happened when Pentax 1st went to digital with their 35mm DLSR's...lenses that were spectacular on film were no longer. Sometimes it was the optical formula of a given lens, sometimes sample to sample variation. Even Pentax has acknowledged this with the 645D. When it works, it really works quite nicely but when it doesn't, it can be frustrating. I witnessed it first hand with Pentax as I'm sue others have with their own systems. So as you say, it's not exclusively a phenomenon with solely Pentax and they are a good company! As an aside, sometimes what one finds acceptable image wise is not always the same as another, so that variable aslo has to be taken into acc't.

Dave (D&A)
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Steven...I received the full res image of Mount Michener and the frozen lake from Royce on the Pentax MF forum which he took using his FA 35mm lens and Pentax 645D. I was impressed with the quality of the image and made a beautiful Letter and 11x14 size print from it using my 3880. I'd encourage you to contact Royce and get a copy to check out....he was very kind to offer this.

I'm going to keep looking for a 35mm lens (A or FA, doesn't matter to me) to use with my 645NII. The more images I see from the 645D the more I like it.....hopefully someday I'll pick up one on the used market.

Gary
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi Gary,

I had a look at some images (not mine) taken with the FA 35mm on the 645D and wasn't all that impressed. Center sharpness was good but as you headed towards the edge and corners of the frame, the image softened considerbly. Not the wost I've seen but far from the best. I'll have to go back and look at the f-stop but I think they were well stopped down too. It may just be its performance on the 645D specifically that was the issue causing this lack of sharpness and on film might be fine...or possibly it was just this particular sample of the lens....I honestly can't say. If one was shoting landscapes with the combo I just mentioned, and wanted good edge to edge sharpness, even with the lens stopped down considerable, I personally would have felt it was disappointing. Again had to say what the specific issue was in this case.

Dave (D&A)
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Hi Dave. Check out this thread on the Pentax MF forum and perhaps contact Royce for a full res copy of the image. Perhaps he has a very good copy of the FA 35mm lens (or my eyes aren't as well trained as they could be), but it looks quite good to me, based on this one image. I look forward to seeing more examples as more people get their hands on a 645D.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-medium-format-645-6x7-645d/129443-645d-sample-fa-35mm.html

On the other hand, I really should try my Hasselblad 40mm CFE IF lens on my 645NII (with the Fotodiox adapter I have). It would probably be the equal of even the best copy of a Pentax 35mm lens.....just wish I had a 645D to put it on!

Gary
 

kuau

Workshop Member
one from today 200mm fa 4 seconds f11
DOF is a real bitch on MF when using this lens.

Steven
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi Dave. Check out this thread on the Pentax MF forum and perhaps contact Royce for a full res copy of the image. Perhaps he has a very good copy of the FA 35mm lens (or my eyes aren't as well trained as they could be), but it looks quite good to me, based on this one image. I look forward to seeing more examples as more people get their hands on a 645D.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-medium-format-645-6x7-645d/129443-645d-sample-fa-35mm.html

On the other hand, I really should try my Hasselblad 40mm CFE IF lens on my 645NII (with the Fotodiox adapter I have). It would probably be the equal of even the best copy of a Pentax 35mm lens.....just wish I had a 645D to put it on!

Gary
Hi Gary,

I truly appreciate the link. Although the images there look good, the issue (problem) is when examining a crop of the image (100%)...and this is where the softness can be readily seen when you head towards the edges and corners...even when that particular lens is stopped down. Of course it's subject dependent as to whether it will make a difference. The second thing to consider is how large a print is going to be made. If large enough, then that image softness will matter. I just got back to a regular computer, so I'll re-examine the link and images again. Thanks!

Dave (D&A)
 
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D&A

Well-known member
another one this with the 45-85mm FA 2 seconds F11

Steven
Hi Steven,

I just got back to a regular computer moment ago and just took a peak at your posted images. They look really nice and quite natural. What focal legth did you use for the 2nd posted image? Where I am a bit concerned is on the wide end where interaction of a wide angle lens with edge and corner pixels, may be an issue with softness. On the telephoto end of things, it looks really good! Great images indeed! Thanks for posting.

Dave (D&A)
 
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