Phase One => not for photographers

[fotografz]

Now, if I had all the money fotografz has spent on cameras...

:ROTFL:

So do I

You know what's funny ... over the years I had slowly and carefully collected old Leica rangefinder cameras, including some really rare one's bought originally for a decent price that sky-rocketed in value. When I sold those off before the big financial bust, the profit funded almost anything I wanted to buy. I'm not rich, the people that bought those Leicas were rich.

I thought it odd that non-user precious little pampered cameras paid for a lot of my current high-end user gear. :thumbup:

-Marc

 

[KeithL]

OK, Marc, I'd like all the money you've spent on cameras and your eye for an investment

 

[Professional]

I am a poor guy and just lost money on H4D-60 which is outdated now and those Phase One is the future, i really don't know if i should sell my H4D-60 then i will not have anymore money to buy even IQ140 [and i only look at IQ180 or higher].

I hope i can have money to buy more MFDB.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Marc,

Earlier in this thread you mentioned you'd keep the Hasselblad 39/Multi Shot, because of a review you read over the H4D/60 Then in another thread recently, you stated that you just took delivery of an H4D/60. What changed?

 

[Hank Graber]

A small company like Phase can not hope to make a profit selling backs in the price range of the top end Canikons. The big DSLR makers can do it because they have a mass market. Thank God for rich amateurs as they actually keep the costs down by providing a larger market and keeping a broader range of products solvent. Without them there would be less choice and higher prices.

 

[fotografz]

Marc,

Earlier in this thread you mentioned you'd keep the Hasselblad 39/Multi Shot, because of a review you read over the H4D/60 Then in another thread recently, you stated that you just took delivery of an H4D/60. What changed?

Based on that review/opinion of the MS verses the 60, I delayed my trade/order for the 60 and requested a demo to test it myself.

I found that for my applications, the 60 equaled the MS by means of shear file size (I shot some GM fabric samples with both cameras to test for Morie'), and for single shot applications it is obviously better (I posted a portrait test shot from the 60 with a 200% crop on a thread here on GetDpi). Plus the 60 is a H4D with True Focus which I missed having after selling my H4D/40. So I then went ahead and traded up using an old Mamiya RZ body and the CF/MS back.

-Marc

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Oh that's right, I do remember that 200% crop. Thanks.

 

[leicashot]

I am a poor guy and just lost money on H4D-60 which is outdated now and those Phase One is the future, i really don't know if i should sell my H4D-60 then i will not have anymore money to buy even IQ140 [and i only look at IQ180 or higher].

I hope i can have money to buy more MFDB.

Wow sounds like you have too much money for your own good

Guess me recieving a new H4D-40 (today) is like buying a Volvo from 1970

 

[fotografz]

I am a poor guy and just lost money on H4D-60 which is outdated now and those Phase One is the future, i really don't know if i should sell my H4D-60 then i will not have anymore money to buy even IQ140 [and i only look at IQ180 or higher].

I hope i can have money to buy more MFDB.

I hope you are just kidding. If not, get real.

What in God's name are you shooting? And what will you do when the 100 meg arrives, with all new cameras ... which will then require all new lenses because they are not up to such resolution?

I have a H4D/60 ... it's already overkill for much of what I could ever hope to be shooting ... for the speculative remaining %, I can rent. I can see 80 meg for really special applications or landscape artists that sell large prints, maybe even 100 meg someday for super applications like institutions need and scientific use ... or for the Royal Society of Pixel Peepers

Whew, the insanity is contagious. "Abandon Hope" is an understatement :ROTFL:

-Marc

 

[Terry]

I hope you are just kidding. If not, get real.

What in God's name are you shooting? And what will you do when the 100 meg arrives, with all new cameras ... which will then require all new lenses because they are not up to such resolution?

I have a H4D/60 ... it's already overkill for much of what I could ever hope to be shooting ... for the speculative remaining %, I can rent. I can see 80 meg for really special applications or landscape artists that sell large prints, maybe even 100 meg someday for super applications like institutions need and scientific use ... or for the Royal Society of Pixel Peepers

Whew, the insanity is contagious. "Abandon Hope" is an understatement :ROTFL:

-Marc

The only issue is the upgrade pricing makes the 80mp back the one to buy even if it is a bit of overkill. The price difference between the IQ160 and IQ180 is small (once you figure in the discounts) and the IQ180 gives you a 20mp sensor plus file vs. 15mp

 

[KeithL]

I am a poor guy and just lost money on H4D-60 which is outdated now...

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but whatever, I'm never quite sure if I should laugh or weep when I read this stuff.

I know many photographers at the very top of the profession who use nothing more exotic than 5Ds or Pee 21s.

Actually I laugh, it's got to be better than crying.

 

[T.Karma]

A small company like Phase can not hope to make a profit selling backs in the price range of the top end Canikons. The big DSLR makers can do it because they have a mass market. Thank God for rich amateurs as they actually keep the costs down by providing a larger market and keeping a broader range of products solvent. Without them there would be less choice and higher prices.

Right, but this is only one side. On the other side a small company has less clutter in its overhead and is more swift and effective in its actions. Thus, has less people to pay for. For a small target market it may balance cost of R+D vs. cost implementation. I am just guessing, but somewhere is the tipping point.

I dearly hope Canon will enter the MFD market and then let us see how Phase can do with some competition. Or even better Sony - their chip with image stabilisation on a ressurected Contax camera. Now, that would be interesting. All under 10K. Sony can do it.

 

[fotografz]

The only issue is the upgrade pricing makes the 80mp back the one to buy even if it is a bit of overkill. The price difference between the IQ160 and IQ180 is small (once you figure in the discounts) and the IQ180 gives you a 20mp sensor plus file vs. 15mp

Why would they even offer the 160 then? Just curious.

-Marc

 

[Terry]

Why would they even offer the 160 then? Just curious.

-Marc

I don't know but the retail price of the two are $7K apart. Then if you are trading from a P40+ take 40% off so the price difference is $4200. So, $4,200 is not insignificant but once you are up in the stratosphere of pricing it doesn't bother the ulcer you've already given yourself.

So, honestly I can't see why I wouldn't do it and why would be the major reason to get the IQ160?

 

[fotografz]

I don't know but the retail price of the two are $7K apart. Then if you are trading from a P40+ take 40% off so the price difference is $4200. So, $4,200 is not insignificant but once you are up in the stratosphere of pricing it doesn't bother the ulcer you've already given yourself.

So, honestly I can't see why I wouldn't do it and why would be the major reason to get the IQ160?

Understood. Makes sense.

I seriously debated even getting the H4D/60 ... and were it not for some of my commercial applications and pixel peeping Art Directors/Photo Buyers I sure wouldn't need it.
What I have already found out in the short time I've shot with it, is that it really places heavier demands on technique ... DOF is different and hand holding, which I'm pretty good at, has to be rethought ... or all that additional resolution is just squandered. I think Jack had mentioned something to that effect back when he went for his P60+. Other than in the studio, that doesn't fit my shooting style or subject matter as well as the H4D/40 did ... which cuts down the versatility of the way I have been shooting with MFD to date. But now I have the S2 doing that work.

What I really wish for is a full 645 sensor with 40 meg. and a really good ISO 1600 as opposed to the crop frame 40s. Never satisified ... :ROTFL:

-Marc

 

[jlm]

"...or all that additional resolution is just squandered."

but it is there when you need it. same sort of argument applies to shooting wider than you need since the res will support cropping.

only drawback of the 80 is the larger files and what that might affect. maybe this is where sensor + will shine

 

[Professional]

In fact i am happy with H4D-60, i was like a crazy with 39mp before, and i really don't have things that i need 80-100mp, but when i come here and see people who were using 22 up to 39mp in the past upgrading to 40-60-80mp then i keep thinking what was limited with 20-40 that they want to go higher up to 80mp or more? I got prints about 40x60 from my 5D and 1Ds3, both were good but not great as i would like, and really looking at those prints making me to plan to buy a 40-60" printers and never look at 24" printers, so i feel the higher mp i can get the better, and i know many here will say that they got prints up to 60x80" out of 10-25mp cameras, if so then i really would like to know why some getting 40 and 50 and 60 and even 80mp nowadays?!!!

 

[Terry]

I am happy with 40mp. However, most change overs to new models seem to require an upgrade...and I think that is how you have people that had 39mp going to 60 going to 80.

In fact i am happy with H4D-60, i was like a crazy with 39mp before, and i really don't have things that i need 80-100mp, but when i come here and see people who were using 22 up to 39mp in the past upgrading to 40-60-80mp then i keep thinking what was limited with 20-40 that they want to go higher up to 80mp or more? I got prints about 40x60 from my 5D and 1Ds3, both were good but not great as i would like, and really looking at those prints making me to plan to buy a 40-60" printers and never look at 24" printers, so i feel the higher mp i can get the better, and i know many here will say that they got prints up to 60x80" out of 10-25mp cameras, if so then i really would like to know why some getting 40 and 50 and 60 and even 80mp nowadays?!!!

 

[Professional]

I am happy with 40mp. However, most change overs to new models seem to require an upgrade...and I think that is how you have people that had 39mp going to 60 going to 80.

True, i really impressed with H4 over H3 regardless of the mp.

 

[Hank Graber]

I dearly hope Canon will enter the MFD market and then let us see how Phase can do with some competition. Or even better Sony - their chip with image stabilisation on a ressurected Contax camera. Now, that would be interesting. All under 10K. Sony can do it.

The Sony DSLR is now twice as many MP as what used to be the top of the line MFD back a few years ago. Equipment is not stopping anyone from competing. Vision is what clients pay for -not kit.